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iTunes and WMA

S

slowtreme

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 27, 2003
348
0
Tampa FL
Man I know that this was discussed to DEATH, and I really thought Apple would do the right thing.

iTunes does not play WMA files under windows, not even a method to convert from WMA. OUTSTANDING APPLE, you just eliminated almost every legit music file on my PC from playing via iTunes. The only MP3 stuff I have is the few files I have from downloading off the web.

I bought an album off iTMS just to try it out, and now I have DOUBLED the about of music in my iTunes library.

I'll have to use WMP for the other 150+ CDs that I ripped to my HD.

Smooth move. Ok, back to my Mac (where I have a lot of music that I shouldn't have)
 
Re: iTunes and WMA

all i can say is, that's what you get for using a proprietary standard. if you had chosen a more open standard to import your music, you wouldn't have this problem. luckily, with iTunes, you can rre-rip your CDs easily and in an automated fashion, and you can rip them as mp4s, a much superior standard.

sorry that you're going through the trouble, but it's not apple's fault--there is no need for them to pay microsoft to use their own standard when there are better, open standards.
 
i don't understand why PC people do that. i mean they think that WMA is a superior format, so that's all they use. my brother did the same thing... he's got a heap of music in WMA format. but i've got a feeling that as soon as he downloads iTunes for Win, that'll be a good enough reason to convert it all to mp3. :D

i hope Apple somehow advertises the fact that you don't have to be 'stuck' with WMA. they could have a link to some other app form their site couldn't they?
 
Originally posted by ColoJohnBoy
There are plenty of WMA converters on download.com. They let you convert them easily to MP3/AAC/WAV/AIFF. It's incredibly simple.
Click to expand...
this is time consuming, though, and switching formats can cause a great deal of quality loss. it's much more effective to rip your original CDs directly, and assuming you have a good processor, this shouldn't take too long. 5-10 minutes a CD, and it's not like you have to sit there and watch it. if you have your mac by your PC, you can rip with the PC and hang out on the mac while you wait. if you did it all on the mac, you'd be able to do other things while you were ripping, too (this is called multitasking :p)
 
more like a smooth move on your part. but like the other guy said, you can covert it.

iJon
 
Being that WMA codecs are already installed on Windows PCs, umm, no licence is required. Moving said codecs to a Mac would be another story.

That said, WMP rips my CDs automatically when I put them in to play, DONE, it's on the HD, with the Cover art, liner notes, etc. I'm a Mac user and a Windows programmer, but frankly eliteist Mac comments are pointless. And BTW, did I mention WMA codecs are already installed, so it would have required like 2 extra lines of code. Declare and allow.

Then again, WMA9 is an open standard (not open source) and even my iBook can play WMA8 files with the media player from Microsoft, so there we go. now I have a Mac program that plays the WMA files, that I can't play on my PC with the Apple iTunes. Smart huh? Oh and it's doesn't really matter (maybe I'm just deaf) but my 64kbs WMA files sond just as good as these fancy 128kbs AAC files that I downloaded, which sound about the same as my 192kbs MP3s.

But hey, let's bash Windows and the Mac user that has WMA files on his Windows PC. They should have had a converter built in, just like Windows has an MP3 -> WMA converter.

Peace
 
If you like WMP's encoding functionality, I'm 99% sure it will encode in MP3 as well, you just have to change a setting.

You now know the joys of proprietary formats, don't blame Apple. As far as WMA being an open standard, that is false. MS has submitted a 'version' of WMA to the ISO, and while they look at it, MS is continuing work on the proprietary version of WMA. Their idea being that if WMA were to become a popular file format, they could close it again and lock out all the 3rd party apps that can read it.

You should download one of the WMA->MP3 convertors and be done with that format for good.
 
Originally posted by slowtreme
Being that WMA codecs are already installed on Windows PCs, umm, no licence is required. Moving said codecs to a Mac would be another story.

That said, WMP rips my CDs automatically when I put them in to play, DONE, it's on the HD, with the Cover art, liner notes, etc. I'm a Mac user and a Windows programmer, but frankly eliteist Mac comments are pointless. And BTW, did I mention WMA codecs are already installed, so it would have required like 2 extra lines of code. Declare and allow.

Then again, WMA9 is an open standard (not open source) and even my iBook can play WMA8 files with the media player from Microsoft, so there we go. now I have a Mac program that plays the WMA files, that I can't play on my PC with the Apple iTunes. Smart huh? Oh and it's doesn't really matter (maybe I'm just deaf) but my 64kbs WMA files sond just as good as these fancy 128kbs AAC files that I downloaded, which sound about the same as my 192kbs MP3s.

But hey, let's bash Windows and the Mac user that has WMA files on his Windows PC. They should have had a converter built in, just like Windows has an MP3 -> WMA converter.

Peace
Click to expand...
i don't think it is as simple as just adding the use of that codec in. i'll bet there are legal requirements to doing it. WMA is a proprietary codec. i wouldn't be surprized if MS required apple to pay a royalty to include the codec. and certainly, it would force them to pay a royalty to have a converter in iTunes or to add the codec to the iPod. and if Apple can't add the codec to the iPod, why play WMA in iTunes? that would require them to tell users, yes, you can have these on your computer, but they won't sync with the iPod. that would be severely inconsistent.

the bottom line: WMA is a platform specific like proprietary MS java. it's the antithesis of the spirit of intercompaitibility. Apple has ample reason to leave it out. we're not being elitist, microsoft is the one with the proprietary format.
 
Originally posted by shadowfax
and if Apple can't add the codec to the iPod, why play WMA in iTunes? that would require them to tell users, yes, you can have these on your computer, but they won't sync with the iPod. that would be severely inconsistent.
Click to expand...
That's actually exactly what's been going on with MusicMatch. They play WMA and Mp3's. So people trying to copy their libraries with Music Match would find that only some of their music was transferred. But yes, it is smart not to allow WMA's in iTunes because of the iPod licensing issue. A convertor might have made sense, but full support would not.
 
Originally posted by LimeLite
That's actually exactly what's been going on with MusicMatch. They play WMA and Mp3's. So people trying to copy their libraries with Music Match would find that only some of their music was transferred. But yes, it is smart not to allow WMA's in iTunes because of the iPod licensing issue. A convertor might have made sense, but full support would not.
Click to expand...
exactly... yet another reason musicmatch was crappy and user-unfriendly.... :)
 
I predicted that Apple would NOT use WMA whatsoever, quoting my nostradomus like statement "why would apple make our beloved itunes compatible with WMA to satisfy bill gates desire to take over the whole onliine music world. Morever, why would Apple make WMA compatible in any way with what Microsoft deems is superior and "industry standard and peferred music file format." I mean, who can resist Apples own music baby AAC which produces cd quality at 128kbps and is co designed by Dolby Laboratories, the leader in Hi Fidelity Audio technology. Take note Microsoft and windows wannabees, its high and dry time to convert to the best of both worlds, itunes, ipod, and finally AAC yeah!!!!!!!!! Thanks Steve Jobs
 
Originally posted by slowtreme
Oh and it's doesn't really matter (maybe I'm just deaf) but my 64kbs WMA files sond just as good as these fancy 128kbs AAC files that I downloaded, which sound about the same as my 192kbs MP3s.
Click to expand...

That's you. As a sound engineer I'd like to point out that the trained ear can easily detect flaws in MP3s encoded as high as 256 and beyond. Lossy compression is called such for just that reason... you are losing data! Perhaps you should upgrade your listening station or spend more time really comparing the two.

As for the comment about open standards, I wouldn't say WMA is "open" just because it's available on the Mac. That just means Microsoft developed a player for both platforms. Office documents are about to seal off with DRM. They will be closed, though I will still be able to read them with Microsoft's software, regardless of platform.

Dan
 
whiner. if your a windows programmer go make yourself a program to your needs since you dont like our opinions.

iJon
 
Originally posted by iJon
whiner. if your a windows programmer go make yourself a program to your needs since you dont like our opinions.

iJon
Click to expand...

That must be the most intelligent thing anyone has said all day.

Dan
 
Actually I've written an entire internet jukebox application to share over 5000 song files legaly over the internet. Users can log in to make requests from a library of music and they all stream in order of the requests, it runs on Windows, served up by IIS.

And it plays MP3, WMA, AAC, OGG, and any other format you throw at it, because there are no licence requirements for dlls installed by windows. It was written so I could listen to music at work, without carrying it with me. I could write a converter, or just download one. But I don't have a need. I have options, the other 30 million PC users Apple is trying to convert may not. THINK

I didn't say I don't like opinions, but your poor attitude will not get my Mac OS any good press.
 
Originally posted by slowtreme
Actually I've written an entire internet jukebox application to share over 5000 song files legaly over the internet. Users can log in to make requests from a library of music and they all stream in order of the requests, it runs on Windows, served up by IIS.

And it plays MP3, WMA, AAC, OGG, and any other format you throw at it, because there are no licence requirements for dlls installed by windows. It was written so I could listen to music at work, without carrying it with me. I could write a converter, or just download one. But I don't have a need. I have options, the other 30 million PC users Apple is trying to convert may not. THINK

I didn't say I don't like opinions, but your poor attitude will not get my Mac OS any good press.
Click to expand...
thats great, go use your program then. personally i dont think anyone is having problems switching to itunes, becuase all i have heard is good reviews from windows users and you are the first person complain about this problem. apple will have no problem becoming the number 1 jukebox on windows, not supporting wma is not going to hurt them so bad as you make it sound. this is obviously your problem, not apple's. if you dont like itunes use your fancy application, if you do like itunes have your music converted. i mean you are a windows user and a programmer, im sure you have encountered tedious things you had to do when you didnt want to.

iJon
 
Originally posted by iJon
all i have heard is good reviews from windows users and you are the first person complain about this problem
Click to expand...
You should browse (the longer iTunes news threads) a little more. There is a lot of talk about about this very issue.

I just would have thought Apple would want all the internet Music market, not just the part that MS has left alone. I think I'll leave it at that, it pretty much sums up everything I've said.
 
Originally posted by slowtreme
You should browse (the longer iTunes news threads) a little more. There is a lot of talk about about this very issue.

I just would have thought Apple would want all the internet Music market, not just the part that MS has left alone. I think I'll leave it at that, it pretty much sums up everything I've said.
Click to expand...
but dont you get it, if apple uses wma support they have opened to door to every other music store out there. that is one of the reasons other music stores are gonna fail, they support wma and apple doesnt. that means all the music they download cannot go onto an ipod, the number 1 mp3 player in the world. this way apple will be able to become the numbe 1 jukebox without touching microsoft's standards. i mean i understand your frustration because having a s*** load of music and not being able to use it in a cool program like itunes, but it just happens. all us macusers have mp3 and acc, maybe you should bite the bullet and just spend some time converting into aac.

iJon
 
Originally posted by alset
That's you. As a sound engineer I'd like to point out that the trained ear can easily detect flaws in MP3s encoded as high as 256 and beyond. Lossy compression is called such for just that reason... you are losing data! Perhaps you should upgrade your listening station or spend more time really comparing the two.

As for the comment about open standards, I wouldn't say WMA is "open" just because it's available on the Mac. That just means Microsoft developed a player for both platforms. Office documents are about to seal off with DRM. They will be closed, though I will still be able to read them with Microsoft's software, regardless of platform.

Dan
Click to expand...

Exactly!

I ripped all my non-classical music at 256Kbps and use the dynamic expander on my car stereo because the compression has altered the music. Certainly, if it does it at a fairly loose rate, lower numbers are going to sound worse because there is less information available to re-create the sound.

I don't think most people would notice 256 Kbps compared to a CD but I would hope that they would notice how "flat" the music sounds at lower data rates.
 
Originally posted by slowtreme
You should browse (the longer iTunes news threads) a little more. There is a lot of talk about about this very issue.

I just would have thought Apple would want all the internet Music market, not just the part that MS has left alone. I think I'll leave it at that, it pretty much sums up everything I've said.
Click to expand...


The then Mac only (OS X only?) iTMS accounted for 70% of down loadable internet music sales. And this number is only going to go up now that Windows users have access to it as well. And the AOL deal. And the Pepsi promotion. What % of that 30% left over are WMA's?

Even on the PC forums I browse only a handful of people complained about the lack of WMA support. And a few of that handful already liked iTunes so much they are going to rerip their CDs and ditch WMA. More people complained about performance, iTunes rearranging their folders, not understanding how to use/navigate iTunes, or about corrupted downloads than about a lack of WMA support.


Lethal
 
Originally posted by slowtreme
no licence requirements for dlls installed by windows.
Click to expand...

-slowtreme

I understand the surface attraction of the WMA, but it's quite the snake in the grass.

First off, it's a closed and proprietary format, not a standard at all. Microsoft would love to be able to declare standards but that is left in the pervue of the MPEG, IEEE, and the ISO. WMA is a proprietary Microsoft format, AAC is an MPEG-declared Standard.

You've mentioned several times that there are no license issues, this is not correct. You signed the EULA from MS which covers all of their proprietary software - you did sign a license agreement for your ability to use WMA, it just wasn't overt.
 
Um. Speaking of proprietary standards, does anything besides iTunes or Quicktime play mp4 or AAC. I'm a recent switcher and I have to agree with the windows programmer guy. WMA encoder is freely distributed and it's easy to use. I used to convert to wmv9 to distribute my videos over the internet since everybody I know uses PCs except me. I use both PC and mac. The only reason I never ripped to WMA is because I knew I was switching to a Mac. BTW, to encode mp3s in WMP, you have BUY a plugin.
 
Originally posted by imbriumink
Um. Speaking of proprietary standards, does anything besides iTunes or Quicktime play mp4 or AAC. I'm a recent switcher and I have to agree with the windows programmer guy. WMA encoder is freely distributed and it's easy to use. I used to convert to wmv9 to distribute my videos over the internet since everybody I know uses PCs except me. I use both PC and mac. The only reason I never ripped to WMA is because I knew I was switching to a Mac. BTW, to encode mp3s in WMP, you have BUY a plugin.
Click to expand...

Last I heard, Real uses MPEG4, too. It's an open standard, ratified by the MPEG group.

MS makes their proprietary formats easy to work with/use as you've both mentioned, and the ubiquity of Windows makes it seem like the right thing to do.

It's not.
 
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