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Jaguar Mail will support Exchange servers!
- Thread starter gopher
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Steve has said this for a while, originally at WWDC02. One problem is that if the mail system is supported it doesn't mean the other features (calander etc...) are supported.
Ensign
Ensign
The current DR of the mail.app does not support Exchange. It supports IMAP, POP, and mac.com (which is really imap with help configuring).
It does add support for Kerberos v4 and v5, which is good, since we use that at work. Since Jaguar does support some Active Directory integration, and Win2k Server supports Kerberos authentication, that could be what they are talking about. If you configure your mac to authenticate with an active directory, and get kerb tickets at login, then you could use the kerb tickets to get your exchange mail, without having any passwords go across the wire (after you log in).
I don't think they are supporting direct exchange server mail access. Why would they want to? It would be good if iCal could access Exchange (and other) corporate calendar software so that you could schedule a meeting using the information in the exchange server, to find an appropriate time for a meeting when everyone is available.
It does add support for Kerberos v4 and v5, which is good, since we use that at work. Since Jaguar does support some Active Directory integration, and Win2k Server supports Kerberos authentication, that could be what they are talking about. If you configure your mac to authenticate with an active directory, and get kerb tickets at login, then you could use the kerb tickets to get your exchange mail, without having any passwords go across the wire (after you log in).
I don't think they are supporting direct exchange server mail access. Why would they want to? It would be good if iCal could access Exchange (and other) corporate calendar software so that you could schedule a meeting using the information in the exchange server, to find an appropriate time for a meeting when everyone is available.
Exchange Support
I think they need to support Exchange in order to be able to legitimately bill the XServers as "Enterprise Severs". In order to convince IT managers that an Xserver is a real choice they need to be able to support the full range of Windows Services - and do it better and easier than Windows
I think they need to support Exchange in order to be able to legitimately bill the XServers as "Enterprise Severs". In order to convince IT managers that an Xserver is a real choice they need to be able to support the full range of Windows Services - and do it better and easier than Windows
Re: Exchange Support
I am not sure what you are talking about. Are you saying you want exchange (one of the crappiest email server software out there) to run on a mac? Or that XServe needs to run software that outlook will support natively?
XServe needs to run an imap server that supports SSL, that can use secure authentication betweent the server and the clients. I am not sure how iCal shares calendars. I don't want to have to look for other peoples calendars and add them manually to my iCal software if I am a business. I want a centralized database of everyones schedules so that I can schedule anyone to a meeting, even if I have never met them, as long as they work for my company. Exchange does do that. Corporate Time (recently purchased by Oracle) does the same. The XServe is an Enterprise class machine. There is no doubt in my mind about that. It is less to do with the software than the way they build the hardware.
Originally posted by mmcneil
I think they need to support Exchange in order to be able to legitimately bill the XServers as "Enterprise Severs". In order to convince IT managers that an Xserver is a real choice they need to be able to support the full range of Windows Services - and do it better and easier than Windows
I am not sure what you are talking about. Are you saying you want exchange (one of the crappiest email server software out there) to run on a mac? Or that XServe needs to run software that outlook will support natively?
XServe needs to run an imap server that supports SSL, that can use secure authentication betweent the server and the clients. I am not sure how iCal shares calendars. I don't want to have to look for other peoples calendars and add them manually to my iCal software if I am a business. I want a centralized database of everyones schedules so that I can schedule anyone to a meeting, even if I have never met them, as long as they work for my company. Exchange does do that. Corporate Time (recently purchased by Oracle) does the same. The XServe is an Enterprise class machine. There is no doubt in my mind about that. It is less to do with the software than the way they build the hardware.
Re: Re: Exchange Support
That would be what I would prefer - if Apple wants to take business away from NT/XP Servers it must be able to integrate cleanly with WinTel dominated shops. If on the other hand, Apple is only looking to provide Mac dominated shops with the ability to run Mac servers - then the question is moot. I think it depends on the market they are trying to penetrate - clearly web serving since they advertise 50% more connections, but I am assuming that they want to go after some of the corporate interior server market - ala Linux.
That would be what I would prefer - if Apple wants to take business away from NT/XP Servers it must be able to integrate cleanly with WinTel dominated shops. If on the other hand, Apple is only looking to provide Mac dominated shops with the ability to run Mac servers - then the question is moot. I think it depends on the market they are trying to penetrate - clearly web serving since they advertise 50% more connections, but I am assuming that they want to go after some of the corporate interior server market - ala Linux.
Re: Re: Exchange Support
Concur completely!! I am in the process of trying to design an enterprise system for a startup and I would LIKE to do it with ALL Apple servers, iCal is an important took - if it meets "our" shared threshold - that is why I believe iCal is NOT a consumer-oriented product but an enterprise-oriented one.
Concur completely!! I am in the process of trying to design an enterprise system for a startup and I would LIKE to do it with ALL Apple servers, iCal is an important took - if it meets "our" shared threshold - that is why I believe iCal is NOT a consumer-oriented product but an enterprise-oriented one.
Re: Re: Re: Exchange Support
I hope that you are right! The software that we currently use (Corporate Time) is okay, but I would rather run iCal. iCal seemed like that it would be more friendly to use as both a business and personal calendar. I had been using Palm Desktop for my personal calendar, and then every once in a while, export my work calendar and then importing it into Palm.
Since iCal will supposedly be using syncML, It should be able to keep different calendars in sync. That does not necessarily mean that it will be able to schedule meetings based on information in a non iCal schedule database.
I am not sure how they do all that. If you could use syncML to look up the public calendars of people AND RESOURCES (such as conference rooms) on an Exchange server, for example, and then give you a list of possible meeting times, that would be pretty cool.
One issue might be that some systems (like ours) let people set their normal working hours, and only allow meetings to be scheduled during those times. I hope that that feature could remain with iCal.
If it doesn't I will have to still run the corporate calendar software to schedule meetings, but use iCal to replace the Palm Desktop calendar.
I hope that you are right! The software that we currently use (Corporate Time) is okay, but I would rather run iCal. iCal seemed like that it would be more friendly to use as both a business and personal calendar. I had been using Palm Desktop for my personal calendar, and then every once in a while, export my work calendar and then importing it into Palm.
Since iCal will supposedly be using syncML, It should be able to keep different calendars in sync. That does not necessarily mean that it will be able to schedule meetings based on information in a non iCal schedule database.
I am not sure how they do all that. If you could use syncML to look up the public calendars of people AND RESOURCES (such as conference rooms) on an Exchange server, for example, and then give you a list of possible meeting times, that would be pretty cool.
One issue might be that some systems (like ours) let people set their normal working hours, and only allow meetings to be scheduled during those times. I hope that that feature could remain with iCal.
If it doesn't I will have to still run the corporate calendar software to schedule meetings, but use iCal to replace the Palm Desktop calendar.
SyncML
SyncML was originally conceived by a consortium of cell phone manufacturers to ensure inter-operatability between devices. Meaning, before SyncML, each type of device (Palm, PocketPC, etc.) needs its own sync software to exchange data between the host computer and the mobile device. SyncML is a set of standard (a sub-set of SML I believe, hence the ML bit) in which compatible devices can sync with software. So a SyncML compatible Palm can in theory sync with iCal via iSync, which is what implement SyncML protocol. Then that same Palm device can in theory sync with a PC computer with Windows PIM, let's say Outlook.
So the situation with Palm Conduit for Entourage X would not arise again. All Entourage needs is to be compatible with SyncML and any SyncML compatible device can sync with Entourage. Be it a Visor, a SonyEricssion cell phone, or in theory another computer.
I believe to run iCal database/service on any 10.2, all you need is to run the WebDAV service. That's what they tell people on the floor at MWNY. I did not manage to get any more details from Apple as they kept telling people iCal is not release yet.
CZ
SyncML was originally conceived by a consortium of cell phone manufacturers to ensure inter-operatability between devices. Meaning, before SyncML, each type of device (Palm, PocketPC, etc.) needs its own sync software to exchange data between the host computer and the mobile device. SyncML is a set of standard (a sub-set of SML I believe, hence the ML bit) in which compatible devices can sync with software. So a SyncML compatible Palm can in theory sync with iCal via iSync, which is what implement SyncML protocol. Then that same Palm device can in theory sync with a PC computer with Windows PIM, let's say Outlook.
So the situation with Palm Conduit for Entourage X would not arise again. All Entourage needs is to be compatible with SyncML and any SyncML compatible device can sync with Entourage. Be it a Visor, a SonyEricssion cell phone, or in theory another computer.
I believe to run iCal database/service on any 10.2, all you need is to run the WebDAV service. That's what they tell people on the floor at MWNY. I did not manage to get any more details from Apple as they kept telling people iCal is not release yet.
CZ
Re: SyncML
That was an excellent synopsis of the syncML history.
iCal with a WebDAV server is fine if you only run macs and can tell everyone to run it (as a replacement for an existing meeting scheduling/calendar software package. Unfortunately that won't happen at the University where I work ;-(
So either I will need to sync iCal with Oracle Corporate time, and create meetings for work in Corporate time, or hope that iCal will be able to somehow do it for me.
The good news is that the Corporate time can send all invites a .vcal attachment with the meeting details in it. It should be simple to import that into iCal. If the meeting changes rooms or times, it will be more complicated.
That was an excellent synopsis of the syncML history.
iCal with a WebDAV server is fine if you only run macs and can tell everyone to run it (as a replacement for an existing meeting scheduling/calendar software package. Unfortunately that won't happen at the University where I work ;-(
So either I will need to sync iCal with Oracle Corporate time, and create meetings for work in Corporate time, or hope that iCal will be able to somehow do it for me.
The good news is that the Corporate time can send all invites a .vcal attachment with the meeting details in it. It should be simple to import that into iCal. If the meeting changes rooms or times, it will be more complicated.
Re: SyncML
Actually SyncML is a subset of XML, just like HTML, VRML, etc. XML - extensible markup language - meaning you can define and extend it as necessary. I am not even sure what you mean by SML.
Actually SyncML is a subset of XML, just like HTML, VRML, etc. XML - extensible markup language - meaning you can define and extend it as necessary. I am not even sure what you mean by SML.
Re: Re: SyncML
He probably meant SGML, Standard Generalized Markup Language, the granddaddy of HTML. XML came later--the first draft was in 1996.
See http://www.w3.org for more info.
He probably meant SGML, Standard Generalized Markup Language, the granddaddy of HTML. XML came later--the first draft was in 1996.
See http://www.w3.org for more info.