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Jumped the shark? Not happy with the new Mac Mini

S

sgw123

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 16, 2008
62
32
It's been clear for a couple of years now for anyone who wants a 'good' Apple 'computer' - in desktop form, in mini form, or in imac form - that Apple forgot about 'us'. Was today the day when Apple truly made clear and public that it was no longer a computer company?

Apple for the past months has been describing the 'macmini' as the 'new macmini' - even when it's been over a year old. and today it introduces a version that - even if you buy the top-end (if you're interested in graphics), is worse than the one it introduced two years ago?

Apple used to have a vision - they would have an 'event' and they'd introduce that vision - now they introduce a new minor increment in performance.

I'd love to be able to read a book on my mac, on my imac, on my powermac, on my 'retina macbook pro' - oh, wait a minute, I've got a 'retina macbook pro' but Apple won't let me read an 'ibook' that I bought on my iphone?'. Thanks Apple.

I am not 'anti-apple' but I am against an 'unquestioning' approach. My view is that this company has had great success, but is now leaving behind both the principles and also the practices that made its success -namely - a strong vision that was based on the consumer's point of view as well as an emphasis on producing high quality product that was the best of its class, and priced accordingly. the way i see it at the moment is that - Apples' view is one of dictating to the consumer (basically saying 'we know what is best for you' - as well as producing below class value and trying to justify it with the Apple name.
 
I'll be clear about my frustration - far from being 'anti' apple - I've proven by the actions of the past ten years that I have thought they were a great company - every computer I've bougt has been from them. and that's my ppoint - at the moment - I do not get the impression that they care at all about the people who stood by them and bought their products over the past fifteen years.

the point I'm trying to make is that as far as I can tell, Apple had a vision, and they followed that vision, and that's one of the main reasons they became so successful. but as far as i can tell, they are no longer following that vision at all - and one of the first signs is in their computer division.

I hope I'm wrong
 
What are you blathering about man?

The mini is what we thought it would be. A nice update to bring USB 3.0 to the table.

I'm getting one and turning it into a server. Booyah!
 
I don't get this. So Apple introduces:

Entry level with:
CPU that is 25% faster than previous generation
2x RAM
GPU is 60%-75% faster
USB3.0

Mid level with:
CPU that is DOUBLE the speed (pathmark bench)
GPU that is about the same (maybe 10%-15%) slower
USB3.0

All for the same price on a (ultra) small form factor entry level computer.

And this is a bad thing?
 
Nice if you don't care about decent graphics - which apple have removed as an option.
 
Server version is no longer the good deal it used to be. $180 for a second hard drive isn't worth it when you can attach a faster external drive for less money.

Also missing from this thread -- slower hard drives, although they are larger. Probably a reasonable tradeoff in the server, but for personal computer use not a good move.
 
wait for it ... wait for it....

I'm obviously in the wrong place with this post - am i wrong in feeling that apple used to be on 'our' side? They used to provide what other companies didn't? in terms of the products, the software, etc? The past few years, as a long time apple user, they've done the opposite - they've been taking them away.

my proposition is this - apple have morphed into a different company and left 'us' behind - 'us' being those who would like a high quality computer (a computer at the top end of what is available with the current technology) combined with a high quality os.

I signed up to the .mac service - and since then have had to fudge along with the transitions from mac to me to icloud etc. Nothing that has happened during these transitions have suggested to me that the consumer (or 'me' ) have been important to this compnany- they've been looking to coopt their buyers into their system - and I gave them a long berth when their itunes approach became clear. I was there on day one of itunes -and bought into it - until it became clear the restrictive practices that were involved.

I'm sorry to all here who love apple - but after all - it is only a company - that wants to make money. Apple does not have any ulterior motives - it does not want to make the world a better place etc. Maybe Steve Jobs could pretend otherwise - and fair enough - he did have visions - and a way of looking at the world that really did improve our way of life - but the past year or so - I'm sorry to say, my point of vie whas been that apple looks more like the old microsoft than microsoft ever looked!
 
sgw123 said:
Nice if you don't care about decent graphics - which apple have removed as an option.
Click to expand...

Yup. That was a real buzzkill for me. I had my wallet out then saw discrete graphics wasn't even a CTO option. Instant sad clown face.
 
i think you're forgetting something..

why should apple be focused on those who loyally bought their machines for the last 10 years? apple is a company, not your girlfriend.

and it's pretty obvious, actually, that they have NOT forgotten about computers: many/most of the big announcements today were new computers! i think what's clear, though, is that like any smart company (particularly one as successful as apple) they are following trends and the trend is towards portability. so you're seeing awesome stuff in the macbook pros (i have the 15" retina and it's wonderful) but not so much on the desktop side (mac pro, mini). the imac got a nice update, it seems, but it's a pretty specific person who wants a desktop but doesn't already have a screen (or two).

have they abandoned us? nope. they're just following the market.

all that said, do i wish the new mac mini had discrete graphics? you bet!
 
sgw123 said:
wait for it ... wait for it....

I'm obviously in the wrong place with this post - am i wrong in feeling that apple used to be on 'our' side? They used to provide what other companies didn't? in terms of the products, the software, etc? The past few years, as a long time apple user, they've done the opposite - they've been taking them away.

my proposition is this - apple have morphed into a different company and left 'us' behind - 'us' being those who would like a high quality computer (a computer at the top end of what is available with the current technology) combined with a high quality os.

I signed up to the .mac service - and since then have had to fudge along with the transitions from mac to me to icloud etc. Nothing that has happened during these transitions have suggested to me that the consumer (or 'me' ) have been important to this compnany- they've been looking to coopt their buyers into their system - and I gave them a long berth when their itunes approach became clear. I was there on day one of itunes -and bought into it - until it became clear the restrictive practices that were involved.

I'm sorry to all here who love apple - but after all - it is only a company - that wants to make money. Apple does not have any ulterior motives - it does not want to make the world a better place etc. Maybe Steve Jobs could pretend otherwise - and fair enough - he did have visions - and a way of looking at the world that really did improve our way of life - but the past year or so - I'm sorry to say, my point of vie whas been that apple looks more like the old microsoft than microsoft ever looked!
Click to expand...

I guess this is where we disagree. The HD4000 is sufficient for desktop work, photo/video processing, even light gaming (e.g. Diablo 3). The HD3000 couldn't say the same.

Are you going to be able to play the latest games at the highest graphics level? No. But you couldn't do that with the 6630M either.

Is the fact that Apple didn't put in a 630M that is MAYBE 20% faster than the HD4000 that big of a deal? So one can play at 36FPS instead of 30FPS?

This signifies some quantum shift in Apple's philosophy? Really?
 
I get that people are unhappy with the lack of a dedicated GPU in the mini.
But please remember that before the 6630m there never was one in any mini. (Except for the power pc models, where there was no integrated GPU to choose.)

But to improve the HD4000 GPU apple would have to have gone to the 640m. Otherwise the gain would have been so minimal it wouldn't have made sense to put one in. Even fitting a dual core IB CPU and a 640m in this chassis would have been hard. There is no way a quad would have been able to fit in with an 640m. No not even a 35w part, because even though the tdp are the same the quad use more in full load then the dual core models. So it was either quad core CPU or 15-20% faster graphics. I don't think apple made the wrong choice for the majority of users.

The 799 model is an insanely good deal IMHO.
 
What he said.

BTW- I completely agree the server version seems like a really weak value. $200 for an extra 1TB HDD and server software? That's where the outrage should be directed IMHO.
 
i was planning on getting a server based on last years model but am very happy that they made the mid level just as upgradable, i had no use for the server but wanted the specs.

for 800$ i think its a great buy for a system running OSX, cant really complain that much
 
talmy said:
Server version is no longer the good deal it used to be. $180 for a second hard drive isn't worth it when you can attach a faster external drive for less money.
Click to expand...

The server version isn't as good as a deal anymore, in part because the mid-level version is $200 less and it's the exact same CPU and has the same CPU upgrade option. You can buy the server software in the app store for $19.99 and run it on any Mac.
 
I understand that 'apple' as a company owes me and any other consumer past or present, anything. My point is that as a company, they used to promise 'something'. It may be that what I misunderstood that promise.

From what I used to understand was this : Apple provided a 'top of the line' product. It might cost a little more than a 'build at home' version -but nevertheless, if you were to buy a computing product from apple, you could expect to buy something that was'as good as it gets' - at that particular moment.

Secondly- and most importantly - Apple's software - integrated into that product - was far superior to windows (I haven't experienced Linux so can't comment).

So my point is - I have been very grateful to apple and the quality of their products -but perhaps that is the problem - I now know OSX in great detail (not as a programmer - as a layman) - and as a consequence I hate ios, i cannot stand iphones or ipads- why have people become like sheep and accepted this situation of one app at a time?? really?:> come off it - we are in 2012 - it's ridiculous


And so, I see apple putting all their effort and money into this dumbed down os - and leaving behind an awesome system (it seems to me that the combo of snow leopard and the macbook pro of two years ago is the peak) - and we all 'take it' - like - ok, - well done apple, thank you. frankly, i feel like I've been taken for a ride!
 
I was hoping apple would go the other way and offer a big surprise in the optional GPU department.

If this is really the way we're going, there's no reason for me not to wait for the next round of intel chipsets, when the on-chip GPU performance is supposed to make huge (2x over ivy bridge in GT3 configuration) gains.
 
maybe this will help

apple revenue by device type:

http://www.mondaynote.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Apple-CY-Q2-2011-Quarterly-Sales-By-Product.png

i don't think your irritation with iOS devices is shared very broadly.. i mean really, this is what fueled apple's growth to become the giant tech company it is today. it certainly wasn't mac minis.

also, what about the retina macbook pros is not top of the line to you? they are fast as hell, SSD, amazing display, great battery life, and smaller and lighter than the previous generation?

or are you just trolling..?
 
Ok so last thing to get off my chest.

I bought the first, second, third, fourth ipods. I loved them. I also have a huge music collection and think Itunes is useless - there's no back button!

anyway - the button-ness. MrJobs told me and the world - nobody wants an actual button -that you can press, that you can feel - that's useless. Like the pen - who wants a pen - nobody wants a pen. I Mr.Jobs say a pen is useless so the whole world should think a pen is useless.

Well, I , an ex-apple lover - love both buttons and pens. And I absolutely hate touch screens .

And lastly - love the flashing light on a blackberry - and why o why apple decided to make a point that they wouldn't incorporate the most basic basic function of ablackberry I cannot understand - I can only say - goodbye apple, you seem to have changed from trying to help consumers to deciding what is best for them - well frankly, you do not know what is best for me- what is best for me is this - and very simply - in a phone- i want a flashing light when I've got an email - simple. In a computer system - i want to be able to choose how it works - not be dictated by you how it works - etc etc

arrrggggg gg hh - yes of course - i've not put this all too effectively - but I am really fed up with apple - I've spent tens of thousands on this company, i have a .mac email , i bought into their s..t - and i feel like they are now taking me for a ride- for the cheap promise of the dollar promised by an ipad or a iphone.

----------

reply to one of the previous posts -no - not trolling -but the opposite -there seems to be nowhere to have any kind of discussion where there is a middle ground where it can be agreed that yes, apple does some 'good ' things -but at the same time, they suck too!!!!

I'm not trolling because I've owned and invested in every apple product over the past fifteen years -but the past two to three years i've become very disillusioned. OK?

it is possible to be disappointed with apple and still follow this forum without being a troll fffffssss!!!
 
talmy said:
Server version is no longer the good deal it used to be. $180 for a second hard drive isn't worth it when you can attach a faster external drive for less money.

Also missing from this thread -- slower hard drives, although they are larger. Probably a reasonable tradeoff in the server, but for personal computer use not a good move.
Click to expand...

Good point, I didn't notice until now that the 2012 server uses 5400rpm rather than 7200rpm.

For the 2011 model, the Server made sense if you need the CPU power; but if I were to buy today I'd go for the mid model (and bump the CPU to 2.6GHz).
 
Looking forward to picking up the mid-level mini Thursday. Will be using it with USB drives as my music studio computer. Will undoubtedly add some ram ASAP. Graphics will be just fine for me. Will be nice not to have to watch resource meter so closely.
 
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