Jumping from 10.8 to 10.11?

[Loa]

Hello,

I've seen no reason to upgrade since Mountain Lion came along, and my system (2009 Mac Pro) still runs just fine. Nothing new in 10.10 or 10.11 really tempts me. On the other hand, I realize that I'll soon be 3 versions behind, and I wanna remain "fluent" in Mac OS X when I use the Macs of my friends/family. So I'm considering jumping to 10.11 as soon as 10.11.1 comes out this fall.

Anything I should be aware of as far as potential losses? (Things like: oh, you're going to have to update this, or you won't be able to do that, etc...)

Thanks,

Loa

 

[iamMacPerson]

There are probably gonna be quite a few apps that are going to need updates, but I wouldn't know for certain which. What I would do to prepare for El Cap is to go ahead and install Yosemite, and it'll give you a prompt at reboot telling you which apps need updating to work with Yosemite.

Wow 10.8. That seems like so long ago. Funny to see how far OS X has come since then. FWIW, Yosemite runs great on my 2009 Mac Pro Hex-Core. (It's now my backup machine, but it was my primary up until Feb and I have been running Yosemite since the Public Beta on it. Always worked pretty well.) Both updates are free, so there aren't gonna be any upgrade fees.

 

[shadow puppet]

I'm also running ML but on a mid 2009 MBP. As soon as I get my SSD, clone and back-up done, I'm making the leap to Yosemite. As the OP stated, I'm 2 systems back and closing in on 3 with El Capitan looming in the Fall. I'm also tired of finding apps or things I want to try that require Yosemite. So for me, it's time. At least until I can get my paws on a Skylake MBP which I know isn't looking like anytime soon.

 

[Loa]

Hello,

Funny to see how far OS X has come since then.

Strange how I see it as exactly the opposite. Sure they look different, but otherwise, meh...

When 10.9 came up, NONE of the new "features" were interesting for me. When Notes, mail and Preview are the main attractions for an OS, we're in trouble. Same with 10.10 and now, same with 10.11. Maybe the "under the hood performance upgrades" will be appreciated, but that's only IF they overcome the slowdowns due to clutter and complexification. That remains to be seen in the real world. Some of the performance gains from 10.11 are on things that happen almost instantly in any case (as long as you have a SSD).

I'm only thinking about upgrading to stay current. And I'm not sure that I'll do it at all yet...

Thanks for the input.

Loa

 

[iamMacPerson]

When 10.9 came up, NONE of the new "features" were interesting for me. When Notes, mail and Preview are the main attractions for an OS, we're in trouble. Same with 10.10 and now, same with 10.11.

With OSes, have there really been any ground-breaking updates? OS X has really just been incremental since 10.0 with updates for security improvements, speed improvements, app updates. There really haven't been any ground breaking features for as long as I have used a Mac as my primary machine (Snow Leopard).

Just my 2cents. I keep updating because I usually do use all the new features and enjoy them, but mainly so I do not fall behind. Mountain Lion is still getting security updates, but not in the way 10.10 is.

 

[Loa]

There really haven't been any ground breaking features for as long as I have used a Mac as my primary machine (Snow Leopard).

Well maybe that's why. I agree with you that since 10.5, it's been really evolutionary steps. On the other hand, I've been using Macs since Mac OS 6. Just a different perspective. 10.0 was so bad that 10.1 seemed like a godsend, until 10.2 came along to show us why 10.1 was really bad as well... Took a couple of OS X updates until it was as solid as the legendary Mac OS 8.6.

Add to that the fact that I don't have an iPhone and that I'd trade my iPad for a MacBook Air in a second... So anything that integrates with iOS is meaningless for me (in fact it's trouble). So when many new "features" were in fact sings that Mac OS X and iOS were starting to converge (if not merge in the case of some apps), I didn't see the point.

Maybe I'm getting old, or maybe I just know what I need and want: a stable system that works very well but that I can mess with if I ever need to.

Loa

 

[xmichaelp]

If you use pro apps I'm pretty sure most of them don't even work on OSes older than a couple years. Just upgrade, there's no reason not to unless you have an old app you need.

 

[crjackson2134]

Well maybe that's why. I agree with you that since 10.5, it's been really evolutionary steps. On the other hand, I've been using Macs since Mac OS 6. Just a different perspective. 10.0 was so bad that 10.1 seemed like a godsend, until 10.2 came along to show us why 10.1 was really bad as well... Took a couple of OS X updates until it was as solid as the legendary Mac OS 8.6.

Add to that the fact that I don't have an iPhone and that I'd trade my iPad for a MacBook Air in a second... So anything that integrates with iOS is meaningless for me (in fact it's trouble). So when many new "features" were in fact sings that Mac OS X and iOS were starting to converge (if not merge in the case of some apps), I didn't see the point.

Maybe I'm getting old, or maybe I just know what I need and want: a stable system that works very well but that I can mess with if I ever need to.

Loa

If you're happy with your current setup, I see no pressing need for you to upgrade.

 

[sleestak]

I actually just rolled my 2010 MBP back to 10.8.5 and wish I would have done it sooner; 10.8 simply runs better for me and looks better to my eyes. It's like I have my old MBP back that used to be a pleasure to use. Personally, I have no intentions of moving past 10.8 unless a major security flaw comes to light or until my hardware needs to be upgraded.

If all you want to do is test drive apps and remain "fluent" in the latest features, I'd add a partition to install 10.10 or 10.11 on for playing with and keep 10.8 as the daily driver…it just seems to work far better for non-Retina, non-SSD Macs.

 

[ricede]

Maybe I'm getting old, or maybe I just know what I need and want: a stable system that works very well but that I can mess with if I ever need to. Loa

It took me a while to move up to Mavericks from Mountain Lion ( & only because certain essential software i use needed Mavericks). I must say that i am really happy with Mavericks & it is still easy to mess with if needed. I find it very stable. Also it will be supported for that extra year.

Not being hooked into the iPhone ecosystem i find most of the later updates irrelevant & I'm not a fan of the new Flatness / Brightness in Yosemite.

Like most things - it comes down to what ones happy with. Some people are still on Snow Leopard & very content with that. We each find our own level.

 

[roboclint]

I keep my 2009 MBP up to date and am running El Cap on it right now, it's great. I've also upgraded that machine to an SSD and 8 GB of RAM since I got it, so it's a little more on par with some current laptops. It's also not my main machine so I don't know if I'd recommend it if you're comfortable with an older, stable OS. I did just update to El Cap on my main iMac yesterday though, but I don't use it as much for work anymore as I used to.

 

[Racineur]

OK I like this thread. I have a late 2012 iMac/27/8 Ram/1T FD/i5 3.2/ OSX 10.8.5 and I've also kept from going to Mavericks, then Yosemite. Reason why: for the use I make of my iMac (Mail, Safari, Word or Pages, Aperture/Lightroom/iPhoto/Elements) Mountain Lion is truly rock solid. Never experienced a kernel panick or needed to do a shutdown to fix things. Evrything works insanely well. Have an Android tablet and phone and for what I want to sync, Dropbox lets me do it. Perhaps my needs are not pro enough to be such in a hurry for Yosemite and now El Capitan. So many times I wanted to take the plunge but backed off after reading all those negative posts. My sister's 24 iMac (OK it's a Core2Duo) has been updated to Yosemite. Wow, what a sluggish computer now. Couldn't live with it but she does until she was foced to use Wi-Fi for Internet connexion for some reason. On/Off 24 hours a day. She's mad as hell. So it was true those horror stories about Wi-FI and Yos. In a nutshell: what's a simple user like me supposed to do when his "old" OS works like a charm and he would like to upgrade to the latest but horror stories are all over the Net? The stories make me so nervous that I play it safe. Too safe? Please some hints if i may ask. And buying another iMac is not in my plan for 2015-2016. Is there a way I could use EC on my computer with the possibility to revert to ML if I dislike the experience.

 

[ricede]

In a nutshell: what's a simple user like me supposed to do when his "old" OS works like a charm and he would like to upgrade to the latest but horror stories are all over the Net? The stories make me so nervous that I play it safe. Too safe? Please some hints if i may ask. And buying another iMac is not in my plan for 2015-2016. Is there a way I could use EC on my computer with the possibility to revert to ML if I dislike the experience.

If you are happy with it - stay there. Personally i think Mavericks suits me better than Mountain Lion but hey - its a personal decision. With what you are using it for - Mountain Lion is probably fine.

If you want to try EC - partition your drive & try it out. You can always delete the partition if it doesn't suit you. Or if you don't want to go down the partition route - make a full Time machine backup of Mountain Lion & then install EC. You can always restore Mountain Lion if it doesn't suit you. Thats a safe way to go.

 

[Loa]

Hello,

The partition idea is a good idea. In fact, I have enough room on my main SSD for it.

If the question was only 10.8 vs 10.11, I'd stick with 10.8. But there's iCloud Drive, my two iOS devices (one of which can't go above iOS6) and Pages, the strangely hobbled word processor that was designed to make us swear everyday by breaking backward compatibility every damned minor update.

I don't feel like I'm in an Apple ecosystem, but rather an Apple zoo... A zoo where the zookeeper forces me to upgrade on my Mac while allowing Windows users to get iCloud Drive with a 6 year old OS. 6 Years ago, Snow Leopard was the newest OS. Why do Windows users get to use their old OS with iCloud drive, but we can't?

Apple is proud of the fact that iOS and OS X users upgrade in masse while windows/Android users till cling to their old OS... What they don't say is that they force us to upgrade if we want the latest candy, all the while they give that candy to old versions of Windows. That's bad...

Anyways, I think I'll partition my drive next fall and see how it goes.

Loa

 

[ricede]

On one level i completely agree with you. However I have a feeling that Apple learnt a lot from Windows on the level of security. No, Apple security is not perfect but I think overall its pretty good. To keep ahead of the game - they have to keep updating the OS's - both Mac OSX & IOS.

I use Mac OSX cause its always been pretty painless for me. I cannot say the same for my own personal experiences with Windows !

 

[crjackson2134]

I've got Window in VM for that "Just in Case" app that I never seem to have. My wife is a College administrator and they only use windows. For that reason of a possible need case "some day", it's there if I need it.

Recently, I've been exploring the idea of making a bootcamp drive that is shared as a VM. Reason being that if I need to update firmware of any of my devices, it would be handy.

I don't really know how to prepare a bootcamp installation so I've been putting it off for a very long time. So far I just don't need the thing.

 

[KhunJay]

I too am running mountain lion 10.8.5 on a 2012 macbook air and the thing simply runs perfect...no intention to upgrade unless it is critical. Last thing i need is some new OS to screw up my way of life.

 

[vista980622]

Hello,



Strange how I see it as exactly the opposite. Sure they look different, but otherwise, meh...

When 10.9 came up, NONE of the new "features" were interesting for me. When Notes, mail and Preview are the main attractions for an OS, we're in trouble. Same with 10.10 and now, same with 10.11. Maybe the "under the hood performance upgrades" will be appreciated, but that's only IF they overcome the slowdowns due to clutter and complexification. That remains to be seen in the real world. Some of the performance gains from 10.11 are on things that happen almost instantly in any case (as long as you have a SSD).

I'm only thinking about upgrading to stay current. And I'm not sure that I'll do it at all yet...

Thanks for the input.

Loa

I used Yosemite and it's annoying and buggy. But even at this early stage, El Capitan runs really smoothly.
The only problem you may have with El Capitan are: incompatible apps and the new look.

The first one can be resolved by updating them (may need to rebuy one or two?) and the second one can be annoying for some people who has non-Retina machines.

 

[redheeler]

I used Yosemite and it's annoying and buggy. But even at this early stage, El Capitan runs really smoothly.
The only problem you may have with El Capitan are: incompatible apps and the new look.

The first one can be resolved by updating them (may need to rebuy one or two?) and the second one can be annoying for some people who has non-Retina machines.

10.11 looks a bit nicer on non-Retina than Yosemite, but perhaps not as nice as 10.9 and earlier.

 

[vista980622]

10.11 looks a bit nicer on non-Retina than Yosemite, but perhaps not as nice as 10.9 and earlier.

Yep, true.
San Francisco is less jarring than Helvetica Neue for non-HiDPI devices, but not as crisp as Lucida Grande;
Faint outlines and a subtle gradient for buttons on application frames also makes it less painful. Still, not as high-contrasty as Mavericks' direct approach;
And any text above source lists (sidebars) with vibrancy effect also appear less legible (grey vs black);
Sub pixel text rendering under highlighted items are still problematic in Finder, with visible pixelation, etc.

The list goes on and on. They're all small. But they add up to a less pleasant experience on non-HiDPI devices.

 

[Loa]

But they add up to a less pleasant experience on non-HiDPI devices.

Compared with 10.10, or 10.8? I find it hard to believe that the overall OS looks *worse* than it did before on regular monitors.

Loa

 

[vista980622]

Compared with 10.10, or 10.8? I find it hard to believe that the overall OS looks *worse* than it did before on regular monitors.

Loa

Of course, compared to 10.8.
Compared to 10.10, it looks better.

But it varies from person to person, some may barely notice the difference.

 

[grahamperrin]

… potential losses …

… Mountain Lion is still getting security updates, but not in the way 10.10 is.

Unless I'm missing something recent, Apple's approach has become appallingly shoddy. https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/21287006, https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/21516454 and so on.

… a less pleasant experience on non-HiDPI devices.

True.

 

[vista980622]

Unless I'm missing something recent, Apple's approach has become appallingly shoddy. https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/21287006, https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/21516454 and so on.

Shame on Apple.

 

[Tubamajuba]

Unless I'm missing something recent, Apple's approach has become appallingly shoddy. https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/21287006, https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/21516454 and so on.



True.

The fixes are there, some people just choose to not update. El Capitan should be a much smoother experience than Yosemite, so it's a great time to make the jump to a fully supported OS.

I understand why some people choose to stick to older operating systems, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you don't like Apple's way of doing things, Windows 10 is right around the corner.