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Leaving Apple, but How?

benjobe2513

benjobe2513

macrumors member
Original poster
Sep 10, 2008
82
2
Humboldt County, California
As it becomes more apparent that Apple won't be updating the Mac Pro this year I have begun considering my options, one of which being the switch to a PC platform. But how hard is this transition?

Perhaps I'm posting this in the wrong forum. Has anyone here managed this transition before? Perhaps someone can point me in the direction of those who have?

I know that I will have to purchase new licenses for most of my software. That's going to be a headache. Are there other speed bumps to this switch that I'm not aware of?

Some background:

I'm a video editor. I switched from FCP7 to Adobe when FCPX came on the scene (half-baked in my opinion, although now I understand that it's improved with updates). At first my 2010 Mac Pro 6-core was very capable of meeting my needs. But about a year ago I started shooting 4K footage and my system couldn't keep up. So I upgraded all the internals of my system. Here's my current config:

2x 6-core 3.46GHz
48GB RAM
2x Nvidia GTX 980 in Cubix Xpander
512GB Samsung 840 Pro SSD-SATA (OSX)
512GB Samsung XP941 SSD-PCIE (scratch)
2x 1TB Samsung 840 Pro SSD as RAID 0 in a Sonnet Tempo Pro PCIE (media)

Even with this very fast system (Geekbench Multi-Core Score: 32000) I'm getting poor playback in my PP timeline when several filters are applied to a clip. Renders and exports also take a long time.

I believe what's holding me back is my dated motherboard, old CPUs, and slow RAM. It's my hope that switching to a more modern PC system will eliminate these bottlenecks.
 
benjobe2513 said:
As it becomes more apparent that Apple won't be updating the Mac Pro this year I have begun considering my options, one of which being the switch to a PC platform. But how hard is this transition?

Perhaps I'm posting this in the wrong forum. Has anyone here managed this transition before? Perhaps someone can point me in the direction of those who have?

I know that I will have to purchase new licenses for most of my software. That's going to be a headache. Are there other speed bumps to this switch that I'm not aware of?

Some background:

I'm a video editor. I switched from FCP7 to Adobe when FCPX came on the scene (half-baked in my opinion, although now I understand that it's improved with updates). At first my 2010 Mac Pro 6-core was very capable of meeting my needs. But about a year ago I started shooting 4K footage and my system couldn't keep up. So I upgraded all the internals of my system. Here's my current config:

2x 6-core 3.46GHz
48GB RAM
2x Nvidia GTX 980 in Cubix Xpander
512GB Samsung 840 Pro SSD-SATA (OSX)
512GB Samsung XP941 SSD-PCIE (scratch)
2x 1TB Samsung 840 Pro SSD as RAID 0 in a Sonnet Tempo Pro PCIE (media)

Even with this very fast system (Geekbench Multi-Core Score: 32000) I'm getting poor playback in my PP timeline when several filters are applied to a clip. Renders and exports also take a long tim.

I believe what's holding me back is my dated motherboard, old CPUs, and slow RAM. It's my hope that switching to a more modern PC system will eliminate these bottlenecks.
Click to expand...

Your hardware is not holding you back. Modern CPUs are not much faster just more efficient at lower clock speed. The fastest newest RAM doesn't make much real world difference. PCIE 3 doesn't show much real world difference over 2.0 for graphics. It's your software that isn't optimised for your demands. Maybe the Windows versions will be better optimised. Just Bootcamp it for now. That will help you decide.
 
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benjobe2513 said:
I switched from FCP7 to Adobe.
Click to expand...
Echoing what SoyCapitan said: have you tried running PP in Windows and compared performance? I don't deal with 4k video, but I can tell you that, at least where final export and rendering is concerned, PP in Windows is remarkably faster than OS X.

Regarding switching, unless you have OS X-only software, there's nothing to it. Just grab Windows 8.1, install what you need, and go. (Unless you want to wait for Windows 10, but I haven't used that--8.1 has been rock solid for me.) Granted, I'm a multi-OS guy, but really, all modern OSes are easy to figure out.
 
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For the record, I'm in the same boat. Awesome hardware, ****** performance in Premiere.

It drives me mad that FCPX runs like a dream whereas Premiere struggles and chokes with the same footage. It's night and day what Final Cut can do compared to Premiere. I'm unfortunately forced to use Premiere because of the features it has that FCPX lacks.

So while I'm not glad you're suffering with me, I can at least add some assurance that the problem is not your hardware.
 
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Do you use the original 4K media or converted proxies or high quality media using some ProRes or CineForm codec?

I recently edited 4K Sony XAVC footage on my quad core machine, but converted it to ProRes HQ in order to have a more fluent experience.
 
Thats what apple really made the new MacPro for, FCPX working with 4K video. Haven't you seen all the demos showing the new MacPro eating 4K footage for lunch? The latest version of FCPX from what I hear is really a great app again. Its one of the few apps that is optimized to take advantage of both FirePro GPU's.
 
violst said:
Thats what apple really made the new MacPro for, FCPX working with 4K video. Haven't you seen all the demos showing the new MacPro eating 4K footage for lunch? The latest version of FCPX from what I hear is really a great app again. Its one of the few apps that is optimized to take advantage of both FirePro GPU's.
Click to expand...
Depends on the codec. Editing video in real time is like chasing chickens. Every time you think your machine is good enough the video industry hits you with a new codec and new video standard that needs more powerful software and hardware again.
 
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SoyCapitanSoyCapitan said:
Your hardware is not holding you back. Modern CPUs are not much faster just more efficient at lower clock speed. The fastest newest RAM doesn't make much real world difference. PCIE 3 doesn't show much real world difference over 2.0 for graphics. It's your software that isn't optimised for your demands. Maybe the Windows versions will be better optimised. Just Bootcamp it for now. That will help you decide.
Click to expand...

Interesting thought. I've heard that graphics cards perform better under Windows than OSX. Perhaps PP will be faster as well. It's certainly worth a try. Thanks for the suggestion.

Since I have Adobe CC '14 I'm allowed two installations, so in theory I can download all the Adobe Windows apps onto the bootcamp partition. (I currently have them installed on my laptop so I'll just have to deactivate them there first)
 
kic said:
Echoing what SoyCapitan said: have you tried running PP in Windows and compared performance? I don't deal with 4k video, but I can tell you that, at least where final export and rendering is concerned, PP in Windows is remarkably faster than OS X.

Regarding switching, unless you have OS X-only software, there's nothing to it. Just grab Windows 8.1, install what you need, and go. (Unless you want to wait for Windows 10, but I haven't used that--8.1 has been rock solid for me.) Granted, I'm a multi-OS guy, but really, all modern OSes are easy to figure out.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I'll give it a try.

I've heard that Windows 7 Professional is more stable and secure than 8 so I might go that route.
 
Small White Car said:
For the record, I'm in the same boat. Awesome hardware, ****** performance in Premiere.

It drives me mad that FCPX runs like a dream whereas Premiere struggles and chokes with the same footage. It's night and day what Final Cut can do compared to Premiere. I'm unfortunately forced to use Premiere because of the features it has that FCPX lacks.

So while I'm not glad you're suffering with me, I can at least add some assurance that the problem is not your hardware.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reassurance. It's lame that the software is holding back our excellent systems.
 
Gwendolini said:
Do you use the original 4K media or converted proxies or high quality media using some ProRes or CineForm codec?

I recently edited 4K Sony XAVC footage on my quad core machine, but converted it to ProRes HQ in order to have a more fluent experience.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion. I've heard of that workflow and it's benefits. I'm just hesitant because of the storage space it would require and also the extra time spent converting the footage.

To be honest that's one of the reasons why I left FCP 7. I had to convert all my AVCHD footage into ProRes422 in order to edit. It's so nice with PP being able to edit directly from the original files.

Frankly, it's likely unfeasible with my projects, which already require 36TB worth of storage just for the original AVCHD files. If I converted all that to ProRes422 I'd be looking at an ungodly amount of storage (and backups).
 
benjobe2513 said:
As it becomes more apparent that Apple won't be updating the Mac Pro this year I have begun considering my options, one of which being the switch to a PC platform. But how hard is this transition?

Perhaps I'm posting this in the wrong forum. Has anyone here managed this transition before? Perhaps someone can point me in the direction of those who have?

I know that I will have to purchase new licenses for most of my software. That's going to be a headache. Are there other speed bumps to this switch that I'm not aware of?

Some background:

I'm a video editor. I switched from FCP7 to Adobe when FCPX came on the scene (half-baked in my opinion, although now I understand that it's improved with updates). At first my 2010 Mac Pro 6-core was very capable of meeting my needs. But about a year ago I started shooting 4K footage and my system couldn't keep up. So I upgraded all the internals of my system. Here's my current config:

2x 6-core 3.46GHz
48GB RAM
2x Nvidia GTX 980 in Cubix Xpander
512GB Samsung 840 Pro SSD-SATA (OSX)
512GB Samsung XP941 SSD-PCIE (scratch)
2x 1TB Samsung 840 Pro SSD as RAID 0 in a Sonnet Tempo Pro PCIE (media)

Even with this very fast system (Geekbench Multi-Core Score: 32000) I'm getting poor playback in my PP timeline when several filters are applied to a clip. Renders and exports also take a long time.

I believe what's holding me back is my dated motherboard, old CPUs, and slow RAM. It's my hope that switching to a more modern PC system will eliminate these bottlenecks.
Click to expand...
I would suggest that you hold on for a while wait for OS X El Capitan. The new OS promises huge performance improvements especially with Metal API that Adobe has pledged to support.
 
benjobe2513 said:
Thanks for the info. I'll give it a try.

I've heard that Windows 7 Professional is more stable and secure than 8 so I might go that route.
Click to expand...

AFAIK only Windows 8.1 EFI install has AHCI enabled on cMP. I have Windows 7 installed, has slower IDE drivers. Enough for games, but I'm considering also installing Windows 8.1 for productivity apps. I recommend installing Windows on it's own drive.

Read this: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-gtx-980-cmp-4-1.1881051/page-2#post-21545362
 
benjobe2513 said:
Perhaps I'm posting this in the wrong forum. Has anyone here managed this transition before? Perhaps someone can point me in the direction of those who have?
Click to expand...

I just did this. I went from a modified 5,1 (2 x 3.46GHz, 48G, nVidia GTX 570 (older system)) to a 6,1 Mac Pro last year. This year, I sold the 6,1 and moved all of my editing (photo, video, etc) to my Windows box. At the same time, I used the funds from the sale of the 6,1 to overhaul the Windows box.

(FWIW, my 5,1 is now a server, and a very good one too!)

I don't think it's applicable to list all the bits and pieces here, since this is the Mac Pro section of Mac Rumors. But suffice it to say, my gaming rig turned editing rig just completely obliterates both Mac Pros from an overall usability perspective. I loathe, despise, and detest Windows. But, like you, I use the Adobe suite which is far more optimized for the Windows environment than it is OS X. So the combination of (much) faster hardware and an OS that the suite prefers left me with a very quick system. I regret throwing OS X away with that move, but it has become such a turd with Yosemite that I've lost my itch to continue using it.

That's my opinion. Folks here are telling you that you have "good hardware". Your Xeons are not good for Premiere, After Effects, etc. They're acceptable. Comparing them to a single fast Core i7 of today is almost a waste of time. Specially when you overclock it.
 
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benjobe2513 said:
Thanks for the suggestion. I've heard of that workflow and it's benefits. I'm just hesitant because of the storage space it would require and also the extra time spent converting the footage.

To be honest that's one of the reasons why I left FCP 7. I had to convert all my AVCHD footage into ProRes422 in order to edit. It's so nice with PP being able to edit directly from the original files.

Frankly, it's likely unfeasible with my projects, which already require 36TB worth of storage just for the original AVCHD files. If I converted all that to ProRes422 I'd be looking at an ungodly amount of storage (and backups).
Click to expand...
36TB of avchd footage? You poor soul.

I always use ProRes or DNxHD to record footage, just for the extra information.
 
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SoyCapitanSoyCapitan said:
Does it make much difference? I benchmarks SM951 in Windows Bootcamp and it scored almost 100mb/s higher than OSX
Click to expand...

I have the impression it's slower.

Windows 7 or Windows 8? AFAIK Windows 7 with IDE drivers works only on internal SATA 2 ports of the cMac Pro. Mine is running on port 1. If you have AHCI you can use SATA 3 PCI-E cards for the Windows SSD drive.
 
benjobe2513 said:
As it becomes more apparent that Apple won't be updating the Mac Pro this year I have begun considering my options, one of which being the switch to a PC platform. But how hard is this transition? .
Click to expand...
I know nothing of video editing / creation. Just throwing this out there. If you feel you MUST change, try building an Ubuntu render farm and or Ubuntu system. Full production movies are being created by the Blender.org group and they use linux everything.
 
Adobe CC and OS X don't really work together that well, maybe things will improve with metal (Adobe claims to be rewriting apps to use the API/Library).
You'll defo have better performance on windows when using CC :)

(In general Adobe Premiere's performance has always been slower then the competition)
 
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960design said:
I know nothing of video editing / creation. Just throwing this out there. If you feel you MUST change, try building an Ubuntu render farm and or Ubuntu system. Full production movies are being created by the Blender.org group and they use linux everything.
Click to expand...
You don't really use blender to edit video, just create the clips for movies ;)
 
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