Lenovo loses French lawsuit over Windows bundles

[MorphingDragon]

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2144392/lenovo-loses-french-lawsuit-windows-bundles

Lenovo loses French lawsuit over Windows bundles

Laptop buyer gets refund after four year battle
By Dave Neal
Tue Feb 07 2012, 09:41
CHINESE PC MAKER Lenovo has lost a lawsuit in France over whether it can make customers pay for pre-bundled Microsoft Windows software.
This story began four years ago when Frenchman and GNU-Linux user Stéphane Petrus bought a Lenovo 3000 N200 laptop but baulked at the idea of taking it home with Windows on it. He asked the company for a refund for the Windows operating system and finally took it to court.
A French law states that one item cannot be tied to another when it is sold, but initially a court rejected his claims and his case. That ruling was overturned in late January in a small claims court, and Lenovo was fined and ordered to pay damages, including €120 for the software, €800 for personal damages and €1,000 for legal expenses.
"The current victory symbolizes the crumbling of hardware-software bundling in France. This means that the legal arguments in Mr. Pétrus's case can be used again in any EU country," said the campaigning web site No More Rackets.
"Similar free software teams and lawyers will now stand across Europe to broaden this victory and eradicate hardware-software bundling, for the benefit and freedom of choice of all computer users."
The lawyer representing Petrus has published his response to the findings. According to that report Lenovo argued that buying a laptop without software on it was like buying a car without wheels, an argument that the judge rejected.
We have asked Lenovo to comment. µ
Source: The Inquirer (http://s.tt/15zNU)

Another step in crumbling the Hardware-Software bundling by Microsoft in the EU.

 

[steve2112]

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2144392/lenovo-loses-french-lawsuit-windows-bundles



Another step in crumbling the Hardware-Software bundling by Microsoft in the EU.

You realize the same thing could apply to Apple, right? I want to buy a Macbook Pro without OSX on it. Give me my money back.

 

[*LTD*]

You realize the same thing could apply to Apple, right? I want to buy a Macbook Pro without OSX on it. Give me my money back.

No. Apple is in an entirely different situation. This has already been examined to death.

 

[MorphingDragon]

You realize the same thing could apply to Apple, right? I want to buy a Macbook Pro without OSX on it. Give me my money back.

Well then take Apple to court and get your money back if you don't use Mac OSX.

I don't see how this is much of a point.

 

[steve2112]

Well then take Apple to court and get your money back if you don't use Mac OSX.

I don't see how this is much of a point.

If I were in France, I might try it. The US doesn't seem to have this sort of law, though.

 

[roadbloc]

No. Apple is in an entirely different situation. This has already been examined to death.

I fail to see how, but okay.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

No. Apple is in an entirely different situation. This has already been examined to death.

Explain how.

 

[steve2112]

Explain how.

Because they are Apple. Duh. They are magical and revolutionary, and can do no wrong, remember?

 

[MorphingDragon]

I fail to see how, but okay.

I wonder if its because Windows is advertised as a completely independent product whereas Mac OSX isn't?

 

[KnightWRX]

If I were in France, I might try it. The US doesn't seem to have this sort of law, though.

You'd then have to completely remove OS X from the Macbook though and install whatever BSD or Linux option you want on it. What would be the point ?

If you're going to do that, might as well just buy a different laptop alltogether with hardware better suited to the task. Macbooks aren't quite BSD/Linux friendly to begin with.

 

[*LTD*]

Because they are Apple. Duh. They are magical and revolutionary, and can do no wrong, remember?

No, it's because Macs and OS X are sold as a single product. There are no Apple OEMs.

 

[steve2112]

You'd then have to completely remove OS X from the Macbook though and install whatever BSD or Linux option you want on it. What would be the point ?

If you're going to do that, might as well just buy a different laptop alltogether with hardware better suited to the task. Macbooks aren't quite BSD/Linux friendly to begin with.

Because I like Apple's hardware quality and design. I'm just very fond of OSX lately, especially Lion.

More to the point, though, I was trying to say that Apple is doing the same thing in forcing the customer to take their OS with their hardware.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

No, it's because Macs and OS X are sold as a single product. There are no Apple OEMs.

Still does not change the requirement. It is still two separate products and it is bundled together. There is one Apple OEM which is Apple.

It would be required to sell it with out the OS. I figure it more than likely worth about $100 give or take.

 

[snberk103]

You realize the same thing could apply to Apple, right? I want to buy a Macbook Pro without OSX on it. Give me my money back.

I wonder if its because Windows is advertised as a completely independent product whereas Mac OSX isn't?

Not a lawyer, much less a French one - so this is pure speculation.

I think the situation is different with Apple because Apple creates both the SW and HW. So when you buy a Mac you are buying a package, not a bundle. It's a small distinction, admittedly - but I think it's an important one.

When you buy a non-Apple PC with Windows installed, the PC maker is paying MS a license fee for that copy of Windows... therefore two different products.

I would like hear from someone in France about tires on a new car. I think that comment, while it may sound trivial at 1st glance, is critical.

When you buy a car in France with, say Firestone tires, can you demand that they tires be taken off (and you refunded the money) so you can put on your own Pirellis? And if you can't do this in France, what is the legal basis? That I think is the critical bit that may or may not affect Apple.

In essence, it sounds like when you buy a car in France they can't make you take the bundled ski-rack. Cars can work fine without a ski-rack. But can they make you take the tires? Perhaps because there is an established segment that provides a free OS for non-Apple PCs (Linux, etc) makes any OS on a non-Apple PC completely optional - and therefore Windows is an optional bundled addition.

Again... I think because Apple makes both the HW and SW it will be seen differently.

Though, for sure, someone is going to test this in court, eh?

 

[*LTD*]

Still does not change the requirement. It is still two separate products and it is bundled together. There is one Apple OEM which is Apple.

It would be required to sell it with out the OS. I figure it more than likely worth about $100 give or take.

Possibly when Mac share reaches past 50%. Before that you can't even begin to make a case for it.

The entire point of the ruling is to uphold freedom of choice. Apple including OS X with Macs when Macs command less than even 20% share does not have a substantial bearing on anyone's freedom of choice. However, Windows bundled with virtually every PC sold under the sun, when MS has 90%+ market share, certainly does.

Further, you'll also need to consider that Windows licensing (and paying for it) doesn't work the same way as it does with Macs.

These are two far different beasts.

 

[steve2112]

Not a lawyer, much less a French one - so this is pure speculation.

I think the situation is different with Apple because Apple creates both the SW and HW. So when you buy a Mac you are buying a package, not a bundle. It's a small distinction, admittedly - but I think it's an important one.

When you buy a non-Apple PC with Windows installed, the PC maker is paying MS a license fee for that copy of Windows... therefore two different products.

I would like hear from someone in France about tires on a new car. I think that comment, while it may sound trivial at 1st glance, is critical.

When you buy a car in France with, say Firestone tires, can you demand that they tires be taken off (and you refunded the money) so you can put on your own Pirellis? And if you can't do this in France, what is the legal basis? That I think is the critical bit that may or may not affect Apple.

In essence, it sounds like when you buy a car in France they can't make you take the bundled ski-rack. Cars can work fine without a ski-rack. But can they make you take the tires? Perhaps because there is an established segment that provides a free OS for non-Apple PCs (Linux, etc) makes any OS on a non-Apple PC completely optional - and therefore Windows is an optional bundled addition.

Again... I think because Apple makes both the HW and SW it will be seen differently.

Though, for sure, someone is going to test this in court, eh?

I personally don't think making both the hardware and OS exempts, but then again, I'm not an expert on French law.

You are right, though, in that this can get absurd. That's partly what I was trying to say. I think I'll sue HTC for putting Android (third party software) on my phone. How about suing the manufacturer of your car, as you said, for putting on tires you don't like, or a brand of stereo you don't like?