Leopard and this miracle iPhone update

[jecapaga]

Ok...I've been wondering just what the pending Leopard release actually will mean for the iPhone. Everyone is saying, "just wait till leopard", "i expect a major update with leopard", blah blah. Is apple not distinguishing the phone as a separate business division not unlike the ipod? Why would a Leopard release mean ANY major update with all these new features people want? Why would apple build anything into Leopard>iPhone that isn't capable with all the windows folks? It just doesn't make any sense to me that I should expect some major update coinciding with leopard. The ipod isn't special to the mac now and this phone isn't so much either beyond just some ease of use and communication with my MBP. If anything it makes sense to me for apple to release iPhone major updates completely away from things like Leopard to further distinguish their business plan. Flame away. I feel like i'm stating the obvious perhaps.

 

[applehappy]

Yes, you are right. Everyone is speculaguessing. But, many hope that the early development had major ties to leopard but then the leopard delay caused some pullback. Also, IMHO most can't believe apple has been so stingy with addingional features, so we are all just believing it will get better.

 

[snook911]

I know this might be a stupid question but what the hell is leopard?

 

[knelto]

I know this might be a stupid question but what the hell is leopard?

There's no such thing as a stupid question, unless you haven't bothered to consult the almighty Google first.

Search "leopard" on Google. Feel Lucky.

 

[D1G1T4L]

I have been thinking that we won't see anything major till after Leopard ships.

I guess it is only fair

 

[nlivo]

I know this might be a stupid question but what the hell is leopard?

i actually fell off my chair when i read that. thats like asking "Whats global warming?" (referring to the amount of attention it has in the media)

 

[cwedl]

So do you think that they will be releasing mobile versions of leopard for the iPhone? I doubt it, I assume that with each version of iphone released new features will be added.

 

[kdarling]

It just doesn't make any sense to me that I should expect some major update coinciding with leopard. The ipod isn't special to the mac now and this phone isn't so much either beyond just some ease of use and communication with my MBP.

You're right, it doesn't make much sense.

Partly I think people are hoping that any new Leopard search tools might find their way onto the iPhone. But they're different scales of computing power, and meant for different things.

And partly hoping for something cool to happen between them. For instance, there are tools that let Windows Mobile owners user their devices as remote display or input gizmos to their PC. I can see a tool that let you use the iPhone in its cradle as a multi-touch input pad. Seems a little silly though, when they could just make desktop pads.

So the question still is: what do y'all think is going to come with Leopard? Any guesses or wishes?

 

[r6girl]

my guess (hope, really!) is that leopard will bring notes and task syncing. the preview of Mail showed these new features, and i think it's entirely feasible that these will sync with the iphone...

 

[Taylor C]

Really hoping for note/task syncing as well. What I'd love to see, but I doubt we will, is integration with Back To My Mac, so one could retrieve files on the go if you say, forgot something or just needed to access something on your Mac back at home or at the office, etc. I'd just be happy with being able to put my phone in disk mode, though. I'd love to be able to use my iPhone as a USB drive if need be.

 

[mkstewartesq@co]

Forgive me if I'm overlooking something obvious, but:

The comparison of the iPhone to the iPod is very apt. It's a separate line of business, separate from Mac/OSX computing- - yes, it's touted as having OSX, but that's to underscore the functionality it gains by having a "real" OS under the hood, not to tie it to Mac-based machines.

To date, Apple has never, IIRC, done anything to "tie" the iPod to Mac/OSX in such a way that a Windows user will get less functionality out of it than a Mac user (indeed, it appears Apple has pretty much made every update/iTunes revision pretty much the same for PC and Mac in recent memory.) Why would Apple then risk diminishing the appeal of, and functionality of, the iPhone for certain users by gearing certain important features only to Leopard users? Seems like they would not only be itching for a backlash from non-Mac users, but also risk recasting the iPhone as a "niche" product alongside the Mac, as it is often perceived by the PC community/public at large.

I'm a Mac guy myself, but I don't see the iPhone as having ever been positioned as a "Mac-centric" device, so I don't expect Leopard to bring any new surprises that won't be available to PC users in short order as well.

Though I'm happy to be wrong . . .

M

 

[Littlebit]

Ok...I've been wondering just what the pending Leopard release actually will mean for the iPhone. Everyone is saying, "just wait till leopard", "i expect a major update with leopard", blah blah. Is apple not distinguishing the phone as a separate business division not unlike the ipod? Why would a Leopard release mean ANY major update with all these new features people want? Why would apple build anything into Leopard>iPhone that isn't capable with all the windows folks? It just doesn't make any sense to me that I should expect some major update coinciding with leopard. The ipod isn't special to the mac now and this phone isn't so much either beyond just some ease of use and communication with my MBP. If anything it makes sense to me for apple to release iPhone major updates completely away from things like Leopard to further distinguish their business plan. Flame away. I feel like i'm stating the obvious perhaps.

Actually, I'm in complete agreement. I'm not trying to break anybody's bubble but Apple never promised much more than what everyone bought out of the box. Peoples' expectations are as high as anything and when each update comes out and there's nothing "big," people immediately think it'll be "maybe next time" or "it's gotta happen with Leopard." It might not. What we got out of the box might be all there is, save for some bug fixes here and there. Sure, maybe new official applications MIGHT come down the pike, but there's no guarantee of that, no matter what peoples' hopes and expectations are.

When I buy my iPhone next Saturday, I'll have exactly what I want...a phone, an iPod, an address book, a date book, internet access without a Wifi hotspot and someplace to take notes...all in one package that is easy to use, has a thumbpad and is syncable with my Macbook Pro. Anything else that may eventually be accessible would be gravy and although I'd like to have a few other bells and whistles, I'm certainly not expecting any because I know that wasn't part of the agreement.

 

[thomasfxlt]

Actually, I'm in complete agreement. I'm not trying to break anybody's bubble but Apple never promised much more than what everyone bought out of the box. Peoples' expectations are as high as anything and when each update comes out and there's nothing "big," people immediately think it'll be "maybe next time" or "it's gotta happen with Leopard." It might not. What we got out of the box might be all there is, save for some bug fixes here and there. Sure, maybe new official applications MIGHT come down the pike, but there's no guarantee of that, no matter what peoples' hopes and expectations are.

When I buy my iPhone next Saturday, I'll have exactly what I want...a phone, an iPod, an address book, a date book, internet access without a Wifi hotspot and someplace to take notes...all in one package that is easy to use, has a thumbpad and is syncable with my Macbook Pro. Anything else that may eventually be accessible would be gravy and although I'd like to have a few other bells and whistles, I'm certainly not expecting any because I know that wasn't part of the agreement.

Please, please, please....stop being so rational, reasonable and realistic.

 

[mkrishnan]

Wasn't the scuttlebutt that the iPhone already uses the Leopard codebase? I think, if anything, over time you will see the iPhone franchise gain functionalities that are easy to program by virtue of Leopard. This has nothing to do with the Mac/PC issue.

This has to do with things like Apple writing an A2DP profile for their bluetooth stack, which they can port over to the iPhone also. There are probably other technologies here and there that will be developed in the future for the OS X codebase that can be used on the phone or even the iPod.

No guarantee that these kinds of things will ship as upgrades. Apple doesn't do that all that often. What I mean is simply that using the codebase on the iPhone and possibly the iPod is synergistic for Apple, and may lead them to be able to deliver some new interesting things with less work.

 

[d21mike]

Actually, I'm in complete agreement. I'm not trying to break anybody's bubble but Apple never promised much more than what everyone bought out of the box. Peoples' expectations are as high as anything and when each update comes out and there's nothing "big," people immediately think it'll be "maybe next time" or "it's gotta happen with Leopard." It might not. What we got out of the box might be all there is, save for some bug fixes here and there. Sure, maybe new official applications MIGHT come down the pike, but there's no guarantee of that, no matter what peoples' hopes and expectations are.

When I buy my iPhone next Saturday, I'll have exactly what I want...a phone, an iPod, an address book, a date book, internet access without a Wifi hotspot and someplace to take notes...all in one package that is easy to use, has a thumbpad and is syncable with my Macbook Pro. Anything else that may eventually be accessible would be gravy and although I'd like to have a few other bells and whistles, I'm certainly not expecting any because I know that wasn't part of the agreement.

I agree, but some of us bought it for EMAIL and it has a number of problems that need to be addressed. I understand that EMAIL is not on your list. But what if you bought it on Saturday and one or your ITEMS (like Address Book) only worked sometimes then I think you would be in the same boat as a lot of us wanting things to be fixed. Also, "Steve" said that things would be different with his phone because most things can easily be fixed/added via software updates. He seemed to make that pretty clear.

 

[d21mike]

Does Apple have enough Developers?

Not sure, but I thought Leopard was partly push out because they were busy trying to get the iPhone out in time for the 6/29 release. Maybe they can't do much with the iPhone because they are too busy trying to get the Leopard release out. Maybe after Leopard is release they can get busy and fix the iPhone. Maybe "multi-tasking" is not something Apple is good at.

 

[jt2ga65]

i actually fell off my chair when i read that. thats like asking "Whats global warming?" (referring to the amount of attention it has in the media)

Media attention for Global Warming is one thing, but trying to Google it to get actual facts, and not just loose interpretation is pretty darn tough. Any the overall conception of Global Warming is flawed from the beginning, as they are now claiming that it's not just getting warmer that we need to be concerned with, but unstable climate. Only one place ever did I see and facts to support that humans are responsible, and that was on a program that just happened to mention the CO2 concentration now compared to other warm periods through history.

As far as Leopard goes... Give him a break. Why would a Windows guy that bought a iPhone know of care about a future release of Ma OS. For clarification, Leopard is the next promised release of OS X, 10.5, I believe. It's due sometime in October, unless they slip it again, I think.

And nobody is expecting there to be anything released for the iPhone by Apple that will be only for Mac users. The speculation is that Apple has tied all their programmers to getting Leopard out the door, and that once Leopard has been released, they will both have time to program additional features for the iPhone, and have a easier platform to port software from. Whether that is true or not, who knows. Everyone is hoping to see additional features that will make the iPhone more useful than it is today.

-jt2

 

[Virgil-TB2]

Forgive me if I'm overlooking something obvious, but:

The comparison of the iPhone to the iPod is very apt. It's a separate line of business, separate from Mac/OSX computing- - yes, it's touted as having OSX, but that's to underscore the functionality it gains by having a "real" OS under the hood, not to tie it to Mac-based machines.

To date, Apple has never, IIRC, done anything to "tie" the iPod to Mac/OSX in such a way that a Windows user will get less functionality out of it than a Mac user (indeed, it appears Apple has pretty much made every update/iTunes revision pretty much the same for PC and Mac in recent memory.) Why would Apple then risk diminishing the appeal of, and functionality of, the iPhone for certain users by gearing certain important features only to Leopard users? Seems like they would not only be itching for a backlash from non-Mac users, but also risk recasting the iPhone as a "niche" product alongside the Mac, as it is often perceived by the PC community/public at large.

I'm a Mac guy myself, but I don't see the iPhone as having ever been positioned as a "Mac-centric" device, so I don't expect Leopard to bring any new surprises that won't be available to PC users in short order as well.

Though I'm happy to be wrong . . .

M

I think your arguing the wrong point a bit here. The iPhone won't have features that tie it to any particular operating system, but the iPhone is itself running OS-X.

The OP's question is "Why would anything change on the iPhone with the release of Leopard?" The answer is because Leopard will be on the iPhone as well as on the new Macs (at least that's the obvious inference). R6girl above makes an interesting point in this regard in that one of the things that is missing from the mail implementation on the iPhone is integrated notes, which will appear in Leopard. It stands to reason that we can expect that to appear in the iPhone once Leopard is released.

Leopard will also herald integrated calendaring and calendar servers that support al those crappy MS standards as well as open ones. This would give the iPhone more business muscle and could include things like live updating of personal calendars on the road, sharing calendars and much more.

Even things like integration with "back to MyMac" could be in the running as all this requires is the new (Leopard) version of Bonjour, which is already ported to Windows in it's current iteration. All the new networking features of Leopard and all of the new calendar serving, office integration, exchange support etc. is all available cross-platform.

In fact the more I think of it, I can't think of much that wouldn't be instantly available to Windows users as well as Mac users with Leopards release. So while nothing is certain, lots of stuff could be implemented with ease.

 

[MikeDTyke]

Actually, I'm in complete agreement. I'm not trying to break anybody's bubble but Apple never promised much more than what everyone bought out of the box. Peoples' expectations are as high as anything and when each update comes out and there's nothing "big," people immediately think it'll be "maybe next time" or "it's gotta happen with Leopard." It might not. What we got out of the box might be all there is, save for some bug fixes here and there. Sure, maybe new official applications MIGHT come down the pike, but there's no guarantee of that, no matter what peoples' hopes and expectations are.

When I buy my iPhone next Saturday, I'll have exactly what I want...a phone, an iPod, an address book, a date book, internet access without a Wifi hotspot and someplace to take notes...all in one package that is easy to use, has a thumbpad and is syncable with my Macbook Pro. Anything else that may eventually be accessible would be gravy and although I'd like to have a few other bells and whistles, I'm certainly not expecting any because I know that wasn't part of the agreement.

Apple stated in the Q2 earnings release that they're reporting revenue from iPhone over a two year period in order to provide free functional enhancements and effectively avoid the issue they had with the 802.11n hardware in the macs that they needed to charge after the fact for.

They haven't said what they'll be providing, but it makes sense, their customers are locked in for 2 years so it's not like you can get them to buy a new model 6 months or 1 year later, and you're only going to piss them off if you do release a new model. So in order to keep enhancing the value and bring in new customers whilst not pissing off existing ones, they'll keep adding software enhancements over the percieved lifespan of the product.

The only thing that connects iPhone and Leopard is notes and todo syncing. The codebase is primarily Tiger based, with core animation bundled. I imagine more leopard technologies might be brought in, once leopard is out the door.

I would say it's most likely the embedded OS X team have been too busy working on the new iPods to add new functionality to iPhone. When the OS X iPods are released, we'll start to see new functionality in patches.

M.

 

[pixlnet]

Well, first it's a mistake to think it's Leopard codebase. They pulled the top dogs off Leopard to finish up iPhone. Then they will be going back to finish up Leopard. I don't think they want beta software running on a high profile product.

Second, I think many people are looking at the release of Leopard hoping for updates to several things. Apple is putting OS X at the heart of their company. OS X or Mac OS X, you'll see that software powering most/all Apple products (iPhone, iPod, iMac, Apple TV, etc).

To top it off, Apple set a very public goal. They will need to continue to add software features so the people who purchased these things could justify the cost of the device/plan and to also influence people who are "on the fence". Sure, not everyone will have an iPhone. But I know there are a ton of naysayers out there....just like there was with Mac a couple years ago. Those same people are on Mac now. It's for sure they will roll out new software features...there's hints in the code now. It's just a matter of what and when.

Leopard will ship just around the time people start thinking about Christmas. Late November or early October would be a great time to introduce some cool features to iPhone via a software update. I'm sure it would greatly help sales of these buggers. Also...I know a lot of people get new cell phones around Christmas - which means contracts should also be expiring around that time.

I don't think Apple will update the iPhone when Leopard ships. They want Leopard to get press....then keep people talking a month later when they put out a nice surprise software update

 

[mkstewartesq@co]

I think your arguing the wrong point a bit here. The iPhone won't have features that tie it to any particular operating system, but the iPhone is itself running OS-X.

The OP's question is "Why would anything change on the iPhone with the release of Leopard?" The answer is because Leopard will be on the iPhone as well as on the new Macs (at least that's the obvious inference). R6girl above makes an interesting point in this regard in that one of the things that is missing from the mail implementation on the iPhone is integrated notes, which will appear in Leopard. It stands to reason that we can expect that to appear in the iPhone once Leopard is released.

Ah. I see the distinction you are drawing. I had been reading all of these "just you wait until Leopard comes out" posts to be implying that the release of Leopard would "unlock" or "enable' some hitherto absent functionality/enhancement which better integrates the Leopard OS on a desktop/laptop with the iPhone - meaning that Leopard OS on a desktop/laptop and the iPhone would be somewhat synergistic in a way that Windows and the iPhone wouldn't be. Which raised my point (and, I think, the OP's to some extent) - why would Apple do something that could be read as "thanks for buying the iPhone - now, to get all you can out of it, you also need to buy Leopard - nyah, nyah"?

But your point is that Apple will leverage the benefits of Leopard code over to the iPhone OS, correct, so that the iPhone is more capable as a self-contained device whether you are a Mac or PC user, right? If so, I hadn't looked at it that way, and it's a good point.

M

 

[nikhsub1]

Ok...I've been wondering just what the pending Leopard release actually will mean for the iPhone. Everyone is saying, "just wait till leopard", "i expect a major update with leopard", blah blah. Is apple not distinguishing the phone as a separate business division not unlike the ipod? Why would a Leopard release mean ANY major update with all these new features people want? Why would apple build anything into Leopard>iPhone that isn't capable with all the windows folks? It just doesn't make any sense to me that I should expect some major update coinciding with leopard. The ipod isn't special to the mac now and this phone isn't so much either beyond just some ease of use and communication with my MBP. If anything it makes sense to me for apple to release iPhone major updates completely away from things like Leopard to further distinguish their business plan. Flame away. I feel like i'm stating the obvious perhaps.

No I agree 100%. I brought this up in a different thread regarding the same issue and was told I'm crazy, Apple wants people to switch from using Windows to OS X and that by giving the iphone exclusive features with Leopard they will force Windows users to run out and buy Macs. My response to this way of thinking is ROFLWAFFLE, pull your heads out of the sand.

 

[OCOTILLO]

Apple stated in the Q2 earnings release that they're reporting revenue from iPhone over a two year period in order to provide free functional enhancements and effectively avoid the issue they had with the 802.11n hardware in the macs that they needed to charge after the fact for.

They haven't said what they'll be providing, but it makes sense, their customers are locked in for 2 years so it's not like you can get them to buy a new model 6 months or 1 year later, and you're only going to piss them off if you do release a new model. So in order to keep enhancing the value and bring in new customers whilst not pissing off existing ones, they'll keep adding software enhancements over the percieved lifespan of the product.

The only thing that connects iPhone and Leopard is notes and todo syncing. The codebase is primarily Tiger based, with core animation bundled. I imagine more leopard technologies might be brought in, once leopard is out the door.

I would say it's most likely the embedded OS X team have been too busy working on the new iPods to add new functionality to iPhone. When the OS X iPods are released, we'll start to see new functionality in patches.

M.

By George, another reasonable poster.

 

[standeliverleav]

Ok...I've been wondering just what the pending Leopard release actually will mean for the iPhone. Everyone is saying, "just wait till leopard", "i expect a major update with leopard", blah blah. Is apple not distinguishing the phone as a separate business division not unlike the ipod? Why would a Leopard release mean ANY major update with all these new features people want? Why would apple build anything into Leopard>iPhone that isn't capable with all the windows folks? It just doesn't make any sense to me that I should expect some major update coinciding with leopard. The ipod isn't special to the mac now and this phone isn't so much either beyond just some ease of use and communication with my MBP. If anything it makes sense to me for apple to release iPhone major updates completely away from things like Leopard to further distinguish their business plan. Flame away. I feel like i'm stating the obvious perhaps.

I think apple should and would do anything that would make the user experience of any device/software the best it can be and by far the coolest it could be. I really enjoyed the idea someone said about making the iphone act as an input device incorporating multi touch as a way around the OS.

This goes past, or it should, the market and worrying about who and who wouldn't benefit. They strive for innovation and I don't think that being bias would hold them back.

If anything, I think they could coin something so rad with these two amazing things paired that it will turn peoples eyes to Mac computers even more, and just push people that much more to make the switch.

The potential is there, you know?

 

[Littlebit]

I agree, but some of us bought it for EMAIL and it has a number of problems that need to be addressed. I understand that EMAIL is not on your list. But what if you bought it on Saturday and one or your ITEMS (like Address Book) only worked sometimes then I think you would be in the same boat as a lot of us wanting things to be fixed. Also, "Steve" said that things would be different with his phone because most things can easily be fixed/added via software updates. He seemed to make that pretty clear.

Actually, I DO want it for email. I just forgot to mention it. As for wanting things to work correctly, I'm in complete agreement; they're offering us email as part of the package and I would expect it, and any other program they included with the original package, to work with as few flaws as possible. That's what I'd expect most of the "bug repairs" are for. But I see all these people waiting with baited breath for ringtones and games and this app and that app and, well, based on some of my life experiences that were somewhat parallel to this situation, I strongly believe that's just based on hopes, dreams and expectations, but perhaps not necessarily what Apple plans to give us. For ALL of our sake, I hope I'm wrong...but until then, yeah, I'm gonna be rational, reasonable and realistic.

They haven't said what they'll be providing, but it makes sense, their customers are locked in for 2 years so it's not like you can get them to buy a new model 6 months or 1 year later, and you're only going to piss them off if you do release a new model. So in order to keep enhancing the value and bring in new customers whilst not pissing off existing ones, they'll keep adding software enhancements over the percieved lifespan of the product.

See, but that's exactly it...they've never said what they'll be providing after people buy an iPhone. Peoples' expectations are that they'll add new and wonderful programs but they're going by "what makes sense" or what they hope for, not necessarily what is going to happen. We don't know what's going to happen. An "enhancement" could be something as big as adding an iChat program or a cross-promotion with PopCap Games, or as small as fixing a bug, increasing the volume or adding another non-iTunes ringtone. We just don't know. And honestly, for the thousands or millions of people like me who are waiting for their current contract to expire (be it next week, next month or a year from last Tuesday) so they can jump on the iPhone bandwagon, it won't matter. It WILL be new and different and special when we buy it, despite any enhancements that have or haven't happened by that time.

It would certainly be VERY nice if they start/keep giving established iPhone users more apps; it would be good from a marketing AND satisfaction POV...but I realize they don't necessarily HAVE to and if they don't, it's OK with me because all I'm expecting is that what comes out of the box will work. And if it doesn't, that the occasion update will fix it.