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Linux running natively on M1?
- Thread starter robd003
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Why would you want to use Linux on any Mac when it already has a very nice UNIX under the covers?
At the moment, Linux can boot and do basic stuff, but most of device driver functionality is still missing, so it’s not really useable. They will get it eventually though.
I don’t expect Linux on Apple Silicon to ever be of practical use (aside security research maybe), but it will work.
I don’t expect Linux on Apple Silicon to ever be of practical use (aside security research maybe), but it will work.
Privacy and security reasons, and some of us just like to tinker!
I used to tinker with my Macs, but as they have become more and more locked down, I have given up doing that. I fear that Apple will continue to lock down Macs more and more like their phones.
Instead, I play with things like Raspberry Pis or X86 system with native Linux distros and open source libraries.
You can turn off nearly all of Apple’s restrictions. They are for security not lock-in. They aren’t going to lock down macOS. Even Linux is using Apple designed boot software. Apple might not be willing to document their hardware but the OS is just as open as ever.
I am tired of people thinking that apple will make the Macs like iPhones and iPads.
M1 Macs ship with unlocked bootloaders, disabling SIP is an option, you can dual boot multiple macOS versions and downgrade macOS to unsigned macOS versions. All this is available on M1 Mac.
You can bypass gatekeeper and get/install apps from anywhere on a Mac.
If Apple wanted to lock down the Apple Sillcon Macs, Apple would have made M1 Macs like iPads where everything is restricted.
TBH no documentation means the platform support will purely depend on reverse-engineering and that usually means 'barely works' level of support. I'm surprised on the effort people put to support Linux on M1 and the progress we already have, but for 'practical use', a VM is usually enough, and a VM performs better than bare metal at the moment, because the kernel driver does not bring Firestorm cores up to the frequency they should have which make them slower than Icestrom cores
I suspect that if Microsoft was interested, Apple would make hardware documentation available under strict non-disclosure. I doubt anyone else would get that level of support.
For me: Not to begin with, but at some point Apple will stop supporting an old machine, and chances are it will still be working perfectly well. When that happens, being able to install a supported operating system that still receives updates is exactly what Apple claims to want: It's way more environmentally friendly than scrapping it.
From folks spearheading the G13 reverse engineering methods we know that Apple GPU architecture is much simpler (as in “more straightforward”, not “less capable”) than contemporary GPUs, which allowed them to make very quick progress towards a working driver. In particular, Apple GPUs have very little fixed function hardware, shader ISA is very straightforward and the hardware scheduler takes care of the rest. Also, they could leverage existing driver implementations and shader optimizers which they enhanced with a G13 codegen backend abs basic setup functionality, which again saves a lot of work.
Of course, there is a big difference between a proof of concept that can pass basic tests and fully optimized driver. I doubt that Linux drivers will ever reach that level. Not to me ruin that most of the interesting Apple GPU features have no matching API in OpenGL or Vulkan, so the GPU potential will remain untapped.
I don’t think Apple would even give it to Microsoft. Why give sensitive hardware documentation to a direct competitor?
Or Apple just supply the drivers like all the other vendors are doing for their custom hardware.
Latest September update from the Asahi Linux M1 porting/reversing team: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs September Progress Report
The team‘s progress is nothing short of mind blowing!
I’m continually amazed at the level of intelligence these folks have. I’m even more surprised that their progress reports are understandable by dumb-dumbs like me. They have excellent skills in explaining their work in and easy to understand manner.
Also interesting seeing some of the details of the internals of the M1 come out in digestible chunks.
I do wonder how long until the call to use 4K pages for the Linux kernel bites them though. I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple ditches the 4K page support in the SoC when they retire Rosetta 2.
The same reason people walk around with pet lizards on their shoulders. They want to feel special.
In the 90s, people criticized Microsoft for stifling competition. MS could make a case for the benefits of having the same OS used on 90+% of the word's computers - and there's some truth in that. Upon reflection, Linux success in say, the server space, sure seems to have ushered in loads of innovation at a MUCH faster pace than MS ever could have.
Today, people criticize Apple for stifling competition (sherlocking, un-upgradeable devices, planned obsolescence, etc). Apple can make a case for security! and safety, and there's truth in that. In a few years, we'll look back and realize "Apple had our backs the whole time!" - or maybe - "These Linux devices are great! This kind of innovation would never have come about from a company like Apple".
Yes, Apple makes products that helps make lives better, but would more doors and a better future be opened another way?
Yadda Yadda this is the year for Linux on the desktop yadda yadda
Never going to happen, and I’m someone who used Linux (and real Unix) for many years and really know how to use it.
I'll agree it's long-failed on consumer devices. That doesn't mean they (we?) should stop trying
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I'll agree it's long-failed on consumer devices. That doesn't mean they (we?) should stop trying
It depends on what you mean by 'consumer devices'. It certainly isn't going to make a dent in the Windows market any time soon. But remember that there's an awful got of Raspberry Pi's out there, almost all running Linux.
And Valve are about to launch their Steam Deck portable gaming PC, and that's going to be running Linux too.
Just about every non-computer consumer device is running Linux too, from broadband routers to smart tvs. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it's not there.
I don't really see much point in trying to run it natively on Apple Silicon though. If you're doing it as a hobby, that's perfect fine, but for any serious use you're much better off with properly supported hardware.
It's interesting because they are reverse engineering the M1 SoC. I doubt that I would ever run the final product except as a proof of concept but the project itself is very valuable. Keeping the Mac open is important and getting enough information to run an open source kernel on Apple silicon is a huge part of that.
I will run Asahi Linux just for fun when ready (at least with GPU accelleration). But I can imagine a Mini running mail/ftp/media server on Linux for many years without reboot.