Resolved Logic Board causes MacBook Pro Kernel_Task + Fan Issues

[ETechMaster2002]

Ok, so here is what's happening on my new 2016 13'' MacBook Pro with Touch Bar.

Basically, the normal startup is suppose to take around 15 seconds with NO fan activity. My startup takes around three minutes with the fans going at full blast. How do I know? Today when we took a test at my school everyone looked and I almost got kicked out because of it by my professor for "disturbing class environment". I don't think the fans should be that loud during login. I don't have no startup items at all loading as well, I've reset the SCM, First Aid via Recovery Mode, etc. However, I know there is no hardware issues because the fans get quiet (normal speed) around 2 minutes after login (however those 2 minutes after login are the worst, Kernel_Task takes 200 - 500 CPU% during those 2 minutes after login, everything is fine afterwards however.)

Now onto to the messed up login. I don't know why but it seems after every time I go on and play Minecraft (which rarely happens ... it's just when I have nothing to do), everything goes fine during gameplay, no fans, no graphics issues, no system halts or whatever. Everything goes fine. However, I shut down my laptop every night to give it a rest and after I turn it on the next day after I play Minecraft the previous day, it almost never goes past login, it get's stuck on the login progress bar with fans going at full speed (really loud), sometimes graphic issues occurs and when it does get past login on the rare occasion, Kernel_Task is ALWAYS at 250 - 600 CPU% in activity monitor. This is all with no applications open btw. I usually fix it by going into Recovery Mode (wait 5 - 10 minutes for THAT to boot up) and running First Aid on the disk and that usually recovers it.

However it is very frustrating as I'm in class when this happens ... I don't have time in the time to fix these issues in the morning over a simple game of Minecraft or want to get kicked out of class because the fans are at full speed during login for "disturbing the classroom environment due to new $2000 MacBook Pro fans running at full speed". Any advice?

 

[Sanpete]

Have you done a clean install of the OS?

 

[ETechMaster2002]

Have you done a clean install of the OS?

You really think I have to do that ... go to that last resort? I know how to do it but I literally have no backup solutions. I'm a poor college student that somehow found the money to buy the new MacBook Pro.

To me reinstalling macOS is the last, final, ending, ultimate, most final resort since I will literally lose everything that is not on iCloud.

I may be able to just do a reinstall but not an absolutely CLEAN install because like I said ... ain't nobody got the money for backup solutions if you're in college. But how long does it take because I need internet access 24/7 since I take programming and advanced classes that the professor assigns assignment at anytime. Do yourself a favor, search for Rate my Professor on Google the next time you are signing for sections ... but that's not the point. Is there any other things that can be done before reinstalling the OS? (I can tell you right now that a clean install is right of the question as of right now ... I can just wake up earlier to boot the machine before I go to school if that's the case.)

 

[DeltaMac]

Hmmm....
Why would you think that you need to "give it a rest" by shutting off, when you can do much the same by using sleep (either from the Apple menu, or simply closing the lid)
Your MBPro would be essentially powered down, cooling off, with the advantage of a quick wake up when you need it.

 

[jerryk]

Your original problem might be cured with a reload of the OS.

But, no matter what I think you need to come up with a reasonable back up strategy. Computers can and do fail. Imagine if that happens the day before an assignment is due and you have no backup.

 

[Sanpete]

You're likely to someday wish you had backup anyway, so you may as well go ahead and bite the bullet. You seem to have tried everything that you can do for free. For about $50 you can set yourself up with an external hard drive and start using Time Machine or some other automatic backup software.

If you want to let your machine cool off, it's better to not close it, not shut it down, not put it to sleep. Just let it idle with the fans on until it falls asleep.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP wrote:
"You really think I have to do that ... go to that last resort? I know how to do it but I literally have no backup solutions."

This is off-topic, but ...

You NEED at least ONE backup solution.
What would happen to your stored work if the laptop got stolen, or the hard drive failed?

It doesn't cost much to pick up an external USB3 hard drive. I've seen 1tb drives selling for $40 or so.

Then, use CarbonCopyCloner (or SuperDuper) to clone the contents of the internal drive to the backup.
Do this, and you'll be protected against failure or theft.

 

[ZapNZs]

I am guessing you tried this already, but have you booted into safe mode and then restarted normally? Also, have you ran the Apple Diagnostics or AHT to check for any hardware problems? (based on what you are describing, it sounds to me like this is probably more software related.)

I agree that an OS reinstall is probably the most likely to fix the issue fastest, unless you want to spend more time troubleshooting. If you do want to spend time troubleshooting, you could try using a program like Onyx, that has a large range of features (for example, dumping System/User caches, rebuilding certain indexes/directories) - but no differently from other troubleshooting or doing a fresh install, IMO you really should have a backup before beginning any of this because things can (and sometimes do) go awry. Further, if you do not have a lot of third party software installed, one can find themselves spending a lot more time troubleshooting than it takes to do the reinstall from the Recovery HD.

As for backup solutions, something like this isn't too expensive...you can spend more in a night on beer! (and if that can't be swung, you may have access to enough cloud storage for free from your school to use as a backup? - even though cloud-only is, in my personal opinion, a greater risk than both physical media + cloud backups.)

 

[bartvk]

To me reinstalling macOS is the last, final, ending, ultimate, most final resort since I will literally lose everything that is not on iCloud.

Get a small second-hand somewhere. It's better than nothing. Then f a dollar or two, get one of those cheap USB-to-USB-C adapters.

 

[Weaselboy]

To me reinstalling macOS is the last, final, ending, ultimate, most final resort since I will literally lose everything that is not on iCloud.

Before you resort to that, try holding the shift key to boot to safe mode like @ZapNZs suggested. That will stop all third party launch and startup items from running. Does it work fine then? If it does, then you have installed something that is running at startup that is causing this.

Test safe mode and let us know how it goes.

 

[ETechMaster2002]

Ok, I'm in Internet Recovery right now. (I'm using the Safari that's in Recovery Mode to look up information and to post this reply right now by the way.). This is the debate I'm having right now, usually First Aid fixes the issues temporaily, however I was just on the phone with Apple Support and they even said to reinstall macOS Sierra. However, since you guys are mentioning backups, I'm debating if I should pull the trigger and go for the reinstall or WAIT and do First Aid as my temp fix for now. What do you guys think, like I said I'm in Recovery Mode so I can look up information on this issue without having the fans running like crazy and of course, take the course of action I feel is right when I'm ready.

 

[ZapNZs]

Does the system have the same issue when you are in safe mode?

When you say First Aid temporarily fixes the issue, what message is it giving you to tell you a repair has successfully been made? - and, if you run it again after the problem resumes, is the same repair being performed later?

 

[ETechMaster2002]

Does the system have the same issue when you are in safe mode?

When you say First Aid temporarily fixes the issue, what message is it giving you to tell you a repair has successfully been made? - and, if you run it again after the problem resumes, is the same repair being performed later?

Actually First Aid doesn't find any issues with the disk. I've checked the details and I found nothing. For some reason, it just fixes it. However, when I tried regular safe mode (by holding shift at startup), it didn't fix it at all, in fact the problem actually persisted in safe mode. The only way I've found to fix it was to run First Aid, have it report that no issues were found and reboot.

When in Recovery Mode (Internet or Standard), the issue usually occurs by me waiting 5 - 10 minutes for it to boot with the fans running high (which is weird since it's recovery mode which means it uses MINIMAL resources.) but that wasn't the case this time, it booted fast and no fans, which explains why I decided to browse the web for answers and help in Recovery Mode instead of my actual account.

*** I should mention that I only have to do this when I do play Minecraft (which is when I usually have to do First Aid), but I've haven't opened it since last Monday so it was odd to me that it happened again. Which makes me think that it may either be (a) Not Minecraft but another application that I may have been running while having it open (meaning that I have to further investigate which application is causing this) or (b) Corrupted (system) files, maybe files that don't get loaded or used mininally in Recovery Mode explaining why the system wasn't using as much resources as hinted by Kernel_Task using high CPU percentage (but that doesn't explain past situations when the fans did kick on during Recovery Mode) or (c) An application that is in the background that may be using the high CPU% that causes the fans to kick in. But I've looked through System Preferences (every single tab) to make sure that only apps I allow run in the background, so I doubt that is the case.

I've already ruled out hardware issues since it would've kicked on in Recovery Mode. The only other culprit based on past experiences may be Google Chrome but again, I doubt it.



UPDATE: This sound stupid, but would Spotlight cause Kernel_Task to display high values? Because I'm checking System Preferences again and notice that all Spotlight settings are on. Just curious because I know that Spotlight has it's own process and DOES run in the background indexing. I'm turning it the things I don't want indexed off ... but just curious to see if that may be the issue.

UPDATE 2: Ok, so again poking through System Preferences and found something in Notifications relating to Microsoft Office that I uninstalled a couple months ago. However, I used one of those uninstaller programs that claims that it deletes everything (rather than me just moving it to the Trash which I know doesn't delete the application). However, I think that maybe Microsoft Office processes are still installed maybe ... but I couldn't find the link for the uninstaller on Microsoft's Website ... I'll look again but just decided to give you the update. (Another update: Yup, I looked on Microsoft Support Page and found I completely skipped the step of removing the Office files from my Library folder. Maybe those are causing Kernel_Task to display high values?)

 

[ZapNZs]

Based on my understanding of Safe Mode, since you still have the issue, then the odds that this is a rogue module from Office or a third party Application seems less likely unless you loaded that App when in Safe Mode, since Safe Mode prevents most (or all?) 3rd party startup/login processes from loading at boot/login.

Someone else who is smarter than me can confirm (or clarify) that, but, if that is the case, then an OS reinstall may be the best next course of action, because, if you do a fresh install and still have the issue even without installing 3rd party Apps, this could potentially be hardware-related.


Even though you do not have this issue in the Recovery HD, I'm not sure if that completely rules out hardware 100% even though software seems the more likely culprit - my limited understanding is that, there can be both OS and hardware causes that throw a certain process into a CPU-consuming loop should certain tasks fail, and, when in the Recovery HD, related kexts (that run in normal mode and safe boot) may not necessarily be used in the Recovery HD (and, consequently, the k_task doesn't have to kick in to avoid potential thermal damage.) So, if this is a software-side issue, a reinstall should theoretically correct it, and the best course of action may be to continue operating under this assumption unless given reason to think otherwise? If you do a OS reinstall and then, even without any third party software installs, you still have this issue, then it may be worth going to the school Apple Store (if you have one) and requesting diagnostics such as MRI?
(Again, someone else who is smarter than me will hopefully correct me if I am wrong, to ensure I am not providing erroneous information)


IIRC, when Spotlight is reindexing, the task that is usually displayed that uses the most CPU is either MD Worker or MDS (maybe both?) as you noted as their own process(es.) You could try disabling Spotlight by dragging the Macintosh HD (or whatever it has been named to) icon to the 'Privacy' list via System Preferences-->Spotlight, and see if the issue changes? (edit - also, In Safe Mode, Spotlight might already be paused/disabled both in its ability to search and to index?)

 

[Jaekae]

Borrow a portable harddrive from one of your classmstes for a day and do clean reinstall of OS

 

[Weaselboy]

Based on my understanding of Safe Mode, since you still have the issue, then the odds that this is a rogue module from Office or a third party Application seems less likely unless you loaded that App when in Safe Mode, since Safe Mode prevents most (or all?) 3rd party startup/login processes from loading at boot/login.

You are correct. Safe mode stops ALL launch and startup items. If one is still having issues in safe mode, the problem is not third party software like Office or anything else because it would not be running.

OP sounds like he has an underlying hardware issue if this still happens in safe mode.

 

[BrianBaughn]

I'm not sure comparing a normal boot and a boot in Safe Mode does any good in this case as in my experience a boot to Safe Mode takes much longer than a standard boot. The OP isn't complaining much about operating the computer after booting.

Why aren't we suggesting that the OP try reinstalling while keeping his files and settings intact and described on this Apple Support page?

Backup!

 

[bartvk]

I did some searching around and as a poor man's backup solution, you could do the following:
1) get this USB-C to SATA adapter for just $12: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ZPKNQYW/
2) search on Craigslist for second-hand harddrive; I found 1TB as cheap as 30 bucks, but you can go lower if you look for 500GB drives

 

[ETechMaster2002]

I'm not sure comparing a normal boot and a boot in Safe Mode does any good in this case as in my experience a boot to Safe Mode takes much longer than a standard boot. The OP isn't complaining much about operating the computer after booting.

Why aren't we suggesting that the OP try reinstalling while keeping his files and settings intact and described on this Apple Support page?

Backup!

That is what I'm planning to do ... it was just last night was too late to do so and I'm in class right so I really can't do a reinstall right now.

However, should I try to do an Apple Hardware Test before doing so to determine if it's really the software or a hardware issue?

 

[Sanpete]

However, should I try to do an Apple Hardware Test before doing so to determine if it's really the software or a hardware issue?

Yes.

 

[BrianBaughn]

That is what I'm planning to do ... it was just last night was too late to do so and I'm in class right so I really can't do a reinstall right now.

However, should I try to do an Apple Hardware Test before doing so to determine if it's really the software or a hardware issue?

That's a good idea.

 

[ETechMaster2002]

Ok, nothing came up with the Apple Hardware Test results. So I decided just to go for the kill and reinstall macOS. The reinstallation is complete and I'll update soon. Of course, I'd expect fans to go off now since of Spotlight Indexing and stuff like that. However, in a couple days ... we will see.

 

[ETechMaster2002]

UPDATE: Ok, here is what's happening now. Fans stopped during login, Spotlight indexing is complete and everything is in order. However, whatever I said about Chrome, Minecraft and rouge Office processes causing the issue, you may want to throw that out the window. I believed I narrowed down the issue. Google *insert drive application here*. I was in class today, opened up a Google Doc (since that is what my school uses) and before I knew it I had all eyes staring at me when the fans went at high speed (what was funny is that somebody actually asked, "Is that rain?" before they realize it was my computer.). However, once I closed Safari in shame, the fans stopped. Kernel_Task went down to normal usage. Then as a test, I opened it again when class was out of session, and BAM the fans went on again ... so I closed it ... and it was silent. Now I just opened a Google Docs tab, Canvas tab, YouTube tab, Apple.com tab, Microsoft.com tab & a couple of other tabs, of course fans were blasting so I ONLY closed the Google Docs tab while leaving the other tabs opened, and it was quiet again.

So I believe the issue is now on Google Drive apps because it also goes off for Slides & Drawings, the other apps I haven't tried yet but I wouldn't be surprised if the fans kicked on when I opened those too. Anyways ... any suggestions for Google Drive? Because at this point, I'll just do the extra work to convert a Pages document into the document Canvas accepts.

 

[Sanpete]

Well, that's progress. Looks like there's a version of Google Drive dated March 31, 2017. Is that the version you're using? If not, you may want to update it and see if that helps.

 

[ETechMaster2002]

Well, that's progress. Looks like there's a version of Google Drive dated March 31, 2017. Is that the version you're using? If not, you may want to update it and see if that helps.

I know this is most likely the #1 Contender for the "Dumbest Question of 2017" category, but how do I update? I can't find any update sign everywhere. In fact, I'm not seeing any signs of you being able to update the app other than deleting the old version of the app you have and reinstalling it.