Logic X on Mac Pro 1 1

[ninjasuperstar8]

Hello everyone, I currently have a mac pro 1,1 2.66 dual core where I currently run music editing software like logic 9 pro and Propellerheads Reason 7 etc.

I was looking to get the new Logic X upgrade until I found out that I require OS X 10.8.4 or later. Now I know, through this forum, that people have been able to get 10.8 to run on their 1,1 pros, and most of these machines have had ram, video card and cpu upgrades. I've upgraded the RAM to 8gb and the video card is 1gb now. I have been looking into the x5355 or 5365 cpu upgrades and then putting 10.8 on, then logic X. But I have heard that users have had issues with OS 10.8 apps crashing on 1,1 pros. So basically I am just wondering is it possible for me to run logic X smoothly on my 1,1? I am willing to upgrade my CPUS if thats what is required as well but I dont want to spend the $$ and not be able to run this program. Any thoughts?? (and buying a new mac pro just isn't in the budget right now )

Thanks

 

[Tesselator]

I haven't heard that users have had issues with OS 10.8 apps crashing on 1,1 pros. Where did you hear that?

 

[ninjasuperstar8]

I haven't heard that users have had issues with OS 10.8 apps crashing on 1,1 pros. Where did you hear that?

I have been reading multiple forms on users loading 10.8 on the 1,1. A lot of them didn't say anything about crashing but a few said they dropped it back to 10.7 to avoid it because they found it crashed more in 10.8. I could be wrong about it, I just don't want to upgrade, put 10.8 on, buy logic x and have it crash on me during recordings etc.

 

[Tesselator]

I have been reading multiple forms on users loading 10.8 on the 1,1. A lot of them didn't say anything about crashing but a few said they dropped it back to 10.7 to avoid it because they found it crashed more in 10.8.

Sounds anecdotal - like from an overly superstitious user.

I could be wrong about it, I just don't want to upgrade, put 10.8 on, buy logic x and have it crash on me during recordings etc.

Use the "demo" version of LX to test with 1st. Then if it works, buy it. I guess there won't be any issues.

 

[ninjasuperstar8]

Sounds anecdotal - like from an overly superstitious user.


Use the "demo" version of LX to test with 1st. Then if it works, buy it. I guess there won't be any issues.

Thats a good plan, I did't know you could demo LX. Would you recommend the CPU upgrade as well?

 

[derbothaus]

I wouldn't. Keep the money for a newer Mac down the road. You are barely able to run 10.8. Your bus is slow your memory is slow your SATA is slow. This will all help to bottle neck more powerful CPU's. It is the 32-bit only EFI that keeps the Mac from running current OS. It will continue to be that way. Your Pro is EOL'd. It by no means is slow or incapable of running Logic but see how it works first. You may just need 16GB or memory, for example. It may be fine for the procs unless you do all virtual instruments. Even using dual X5365's it would be slower than a current i7 Quad Mac Mini. Keep that in mind. But the 5355's are like 50.00 each now. That may be worth it. Don't pay over 100.00 on a proc. Good luck.

 

[Tesselator]

Thats a good plan, I did't know you could demo LX. Would you recommend the CPU upgrade as well?

You're editing music? Yes 8 cores is much better than 4 for running multiple synths in a multi-track arrangement - although 4 is already pretty good. You can get a pair of matching x5355 CPUs for under $100 so why not. You can get a pair of x5365 (3GHz) procs for like $150 if you do a little hunting so that might be a consideration as well.

Also the MP1,1 with x5365 (or x5355 for that matter) procs can do considerable more than "a current i7 Quad Mac Mini". It may not be faster under the mouse so to speak, but the Mini will be bogging and chocking long before the MP1,1 even starts to notice things are heavy. And really the difference in (under the mouse) zippiness is hardly detectable unless you're really looking for it.

 

[derbothaus]

Also the MP1,1 with x5365 (or x5355 for that matter) procs can do considerable more than "a current i7 Quad Mac Mini". It may not be faster under the mouse so to speak, but the Mini will be bogging and chocking long before the MP1,1 even starts to notice things are heavy. And really the difference in (under the mouse) zippiness is hardly detectable unless you're really looking for it.

Very doubtful. It is 7 years old and has a 5000 point disadvantage in GB. Plus audio is not like video transcoding. Songs are short relative to video, audio engines give out before CPU's generally do, and HT scales almost 100% in Logic. I can use twice as many instruments in Logic with HT vs. without. Just saying the faith in Xeon 'woodcrest' and 'clovertown' is a little far fetched at this point. There is only so many years faith in the slow and steady makes sense. To me anyway.

 

[Tesselator]

Very doubtful.

Age and geekbench scores matter a hole lot. An actual hole too... as in just about zero percent! 0% <--Hole!

But if you're right about HT that's news to me and would (if true) actually be a scale tipper. I dunno how much it would tip those scales tho. In something like Reaktor and Reason on a modern Wintel system HT does almost nothing... maybe about a 5% increase overall. And I can eat up most of a fast 12-core system's processing power pretty easy by being a little silly with the arrangements. If Logic Pro X really plays differently with HT that's a pretty great thing.

That said I have some massive Logic Pro projects and none of them even begin to lag the MacPro1,1 (x5355) - Plus everything I've downloaded from the various content share sites (and some are pretty huge) run smooth as silk on the MP1,1 in LP. In something like Live9 it's again just about impossible to max out either the MP1,1 or a modern 12-core workstations and the performance differences on the two systems is almost humanly undetectable - meaning of course the 12-core is just about a complete waste. I would assume LP would be the same thing although I don't have it for a WinTel system to try.

If all he's doing is LP and he can get OS X 10.8 up then there is absolutely no reason to buy another system. And if somehow his projects were maxing an 8-core MP1,1 then it would be time for a 12-core MP5,1 and not a Mini.

 

[ninjasuperstar8]

If all he's doing is LP and he can get OS X 10.8 up .

Thanks for the input guys... Right now, I run the latest in logic 9, reason 7 and N.I Komplete 8. In my recordings I've had plugins like melodyne, komplete, and soundtoys running on tracks without a hitch *knock on wood* and thats with the stock 2.66 procs. I was just looking forward to the new features in logic X that I wanted to check them out without chucking out the bucks for a new pro (right now) and I am willing to update the procs to quads if that will help the cause, but if not then I'll leave it the way it is.

 

[Tesselator]

Thanks for the input guys... Right now, I run the latest in logic 9, reason 7 and N.I Komplete 8. In my recordings I've had plugins like melodyne, komplete, and soundtoys running on tracks without a hitch *knock on wood* and thats with the stock 2.66 procs. I was just looking forward to the new features in logic X that I wanted to check them out without chucking out the bucks for a new pro (right now) and I am willing to update the procs to quads if that will help the cause, but if not then I'll leave it the way it is.

I'd leave it first and try with LPx. Then if you see lag (You won't LPx is the same speed as LP9) go for the new procs.

 

[derbothaus]

Age and geekbench scores matter a hole lot. An actual hole too... as in just about zero percent! 0% <--Hole!

Pick a line in the sand brother. That's all it is. Can't pick a line with 25 variables like real world. It is what it is. Just allow the brain to extrapolate the situation. There is a Logic Pro test out there with a deep enough database (http://www.evan.se/logicprobenchmark/Logic_Multicore_Benchmark_Test.html) and a Macmini can net more tracks than even a 2008 Pro. It is a single bar of repeated EXS24, Ringshifter, Compressor, Space Designer, and channel EQ. Repeated over and over. You can shout 'real world' only until you are blue in the face but it is only air as it can't ever be verified for obvious reasons. It will translate to the 'real world'. How much is debatable and will never be answered definitively.

 

[Tesselator]

Well, it's not that I was going on about "real-world" this or that but rather, I think GB isn't a useful bench for music composition on a Mac. It may or may not be in reality, I just think it's not. It's pretty much NOT for every other type of app so I just went by that. Remember, if you draw a line in the sand you yourself created that line! It's most likely not relevant for anyone else.

I downloaded that Logic benchmark archive and it didn't seem to work so I made my own (from one of the benchmark tracks) and stopped adding tracks at 220 when I saw there was little or no difference between 110 and 220. Maybe my x5355 + 32GB RAM is magical cuz the graphs say the x5365 (a faster proc) poops out at around 150 or something. <shrug> Heh.. benchmarks... hehehe

So I decided to get LPx just to see if there was any difference. I found some good news here and some bad news too. The good first guess:

You can install and run it on 10.7.4 or 10.7.5 just by following a few simple instructions: http://blog.ubuntulinuxguide.com/2013/07/use-logic-pro-x-with-osx-lion-1075-1074.html

And now for the bad: All those millions of 32bit plugs you spent your life evaluating will no longer work! Unless... you spend more than the cost LPx itself on a product called Vienna Ensemble PRO from:

http://www.viennaensemblepro.com

I haven't actually tried it myself because that's more than I wanna spend when I can just start-up LP 9.x and still have all the features of LPx anyway. It looks to me like the only thing new in LPx is the dumbed down GUI ala FCPx lameness. Hey, this is the "bad news" section remember!

 

[paulrbeers]

Hello everyone, I currently have a mac pro 1,1 2.66 dual core where I currently run music editing software like logic 9 pro and Propellerheads Reason 7 etc.

I was looking to get the new Logic X upgrade until I found out that I require OS X 10.8.4 or later. Now I know, through this forum, that people have been able to get 10.8 to run on their 1,1 pros, and most of these machines have had ram, video card and cpu upgrades. I've upgraded the RAM to 8gb and the video card is 1gb now. I have been looking into the x5355 or 5365 cpu upgrades and then putting 10.8 on, then logic X. But I have heard that users have had issues with OS 10.8 apps crashing on 1,1 pros. So basically I am just wondering is it possible for me to run logic X smoothly on my 1,1? I am willing to upgrade my CPUS if thats what is required as well but I dont want to spend the $$ and not be able to run this program. Any thoughts?? (and buying a new mac pro just isn't in the budget right now )

Thanks

The only way to get Mt Lion on your 1,1 is to basically turn it into a Hackintosh (more or less). Do you realllyyy want to do work (something that I assume you want to earn MONEY with), by basically hacking your work machine? I have a 1,1 running two x5355's and it is a great machine, but it is being retired by my 2012 quad core 2.3ghz mid mini because it can run Mt. Lion (and mavericks for that reason) and I do real work and don't want to "hack" my work machine. My Mini with 4 real cores and 4 virtual cores, runs laps around my Mac Pro 1,1 with 8 real cores in everything but the GPU. With all of the thunderbolt devices you can get for doing "Pro" work, it makes it hard to recommend dumping money and hacking a 7 year old machine to get it work as long as Apple doesn't change something....

 

[derbothaus]

I haven't actually tried it myself because that's more than I wanna spend when I can just start-up LP 9.x and still have all the features of LPx anyway. It looks to me like the only thing new in LPx is the dumbed down GUI ala FCPx lameness. Hey, this is the "bad news" section remember!

32-bit loss does suck and I keep the 9.x around for this but most of my stuff has been converted or is available for a nominal fee. And there are workarounds for the few that you may HAVE to use.
http://www.macprovideo.com/hub/logic-pro/how-to-run-32-bit-plug-ins-in-logic-pro-x
And just for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i9TryWYbUA
There are a ton of new features that are pretty great though. It is not the 'same' per se. But I am not a midi guy and play mostly real instruments where a ton of the newer stuff is concentrated. I use midi when I can't find the real thing basically. Or for horns or organ or something.
Quick and dirty drum designer and bass amp designer are great additions that have come real close to the Ampeg SVX I used to use for bass headroom (saves me 400.00). The new mixer is great and adds common sense features I had wanted for 10 years. The environment is still there thankfully and nothing of deep consequence has been removed. The barrier of entry keeps getting knocked down but I am OK with what they have done. I and others need to get over that we read a huge book years ago to understand Logic and now it is a button press here and there. Spilled milk. Anyway, onward...

 

[ninjasuperstar8]

The only way to get Mt Lion on your 1,1 is to basically turn it into a Hackintosh (more or less). Do you realllyyy want to do work (something that I assume you want to earn MONEY with), by basically hacking your work machine? I have a 1,1 running two x5355's and it is a great machine, but it is being retired by my 2012 quad core 2.3ghz mid mini because it can run Mt. Lion (and mavericks for that reason) and I do real work and don't want to "hack" my work machine. My Mini with 4 real cores and 4 virtual cores, runs laps around my Mac Pro 1,1 with 8 real cores in everything but the GPU. With all of the thunderbolt devices you can get for doing "Pro" work, it makes it hard to recommend dumping money and hacking a 7 year old machine to get it work as long as Apple doesn't change something....

Recording is a hobby of mine, and unfortunately wont bring in any cash but at the same time you're right about not wanting to "Hack" my computer. Thats why I always paid for my DAWs in fear that if I hacked or torrented any that It would lag or glitch during recordings or just be a pain in general. I want my recordings to sound professional even tho i am far from it . All that being said, I am planning on buying a new MB pro soon (which was why I said a new Pro was out of budget) and will get Logic X on that, I was just hoping to still be able to include my 1,1 pro because it still seems to be running at tip top shape after all these years. Lol Oh well, I may load mt lion on it to see how it reacts anyways and do all my main work on the new MB pro when I get it.