Looking for help with understanding USB interference

[Q'iq'el]

Hello!

I'm a first time poster, so a short introduction: I've been using Macs since '97 and I am sort of semi-power user (I usually can troubleshoot my own machines and help friends and family with theirs).

I've just jumped on Mac Mini M1 bandwagon and though I'm very happy with it (day 6 right now) there are things going on I cannot understand. I'd greatly appreciate some help.

My configuration: 16GB Mac mini M1, Logitech MX keyboard (connected with the "unifying receiver"), the original Magic Mouse (going to be replaced by Magic Trackpad 2 shortly, so it is a stop-gap measure). I have a 27inch LG monitor connected with USB-C cable, a Logitech webcam connected to the monitor's hub and an Elecom USB3.0 hub (with its own power source), to which a printer, external HDD and external DAC are connected. The net is connected by wire, but WiFi is on as well. Other than the keyboard and the webcam, which are new, the external devices have been used for many years with my previous Macs and never caused any problems.

With Mini M2 I have experienced 2 problems, of which one is rather worrisome.

1. The lesser problem has to do with the Logitech keyboard. It has an ability to switch between media keys and function keys with the fn+esc shortcut. On several occasions this would switch on its own, several times in a row. Can it be caused by interference? Is it possible this is a glitch with Logitech software running on Rosetta? It is not particularly problematic as I can continue typing without any problems, but I could not find any reference to this happening on the web and I wonder what it may be.


2. During one of the video conferences I was taking part in, when I was showing a video material using window-sharing, the coursor started lagging and become jittery to a degree which made the computer unusable and forced me to restart the Mac. I attempted to share the video again and after a moment the same thing happened. I was using VLC (M1 native) and Microsoft Teams (Intel on Rosetta) for this particular conference. I was not able to replicate the problem since, using conference rooms I created myself for the troubleshooting purpose.

If it keeps reoccurring it will seriously hinder my ability to telework using M1, so it is a serious problem for me.


The symptoms seem consistent with USB-A hub interference I've read about online, but why would they happen only in this one and very specific case? Wouldn't interference cause problems when using other application combinations as well? Is it possible that interaction between software running on Rosetta (Microsoft Teams) and a native M1 application (VLC) is the reason for the problem, even if it doesn't cause any increased load on the the CPU and other system resources?

I had opened Activity Monitor before my second attempt at sharing the video clip, but there was nothing suspicious going on in the background. I'd say the system was under relatively light load and there were no spikes in CPU, memory or disk usage. The clip being played had been stored on the internal SSD. None of the devices connected to USB hub were in use, though the external HDD had been mounted at the time (it always is). Time Machine is on a NAS and the disk was turned off at the time (by accident), so Time Machine wasn't active either.

What else could cause such behavior?

If the USB interference is indeed the only possible culprit, what is the recommended solution? Should I buy an USB-C 2 USB-A hub for the external devices? Are such hubs safe, when it comes to interference? Or should I go for Usb-c to c hub and buy usb-c cables/converters for these devices?

I hope I gave all the relevant information. Thank you for any help.

 

[MacCheetah3]

The Logitech software is probably the culprit for the unexpected key behavior.

As for the interference, it increases as USB 3.0 device usage increases. For example, during video calls/meetings the webcam is active, I assume USB-A connected. Also, do your best to keep USB devices and cables (USB-A connector) away/out of the path of BT devices.

Below is further reading with three possible explanation levels:

Explanation of the Bluetooth+USB3 problem - Bluetooth and USB 3 - Fix your Bluetooth problems

Are you experiencing problems with your Bluetooth devices performance and reception? Do you also have a USB 3 compatible computer and devices? This website is about the conflict between Bluetooth and USB 3

www.bluetoothandusb3.com

 

[Q'iq'el]

The Logitech software is probably the culprit for the unexpected key behavior.

As for the interference, it increases as USB 3.0 device usage increases. For example, during video calls/meetings the webcam is active, I assume USB-A connected. Also, do your best to keep USB devices and cables (USB-A connector) away/out of the path of BT devices.

Thank you for the reply

That would mean the hub in the monitor is the one to blame... not sure I can do anything about this. The monitor is not exactly in the way of the bluetooth devices, but it also cannot really be moved further away.

I do quite a lot of video conferencing - Skype, Google Meetings and Microsoft Teams have all been in use on this particular Mini. The problem has manifested itself only twice, when sharing the clip from VLC window. All the other video conferences went very smoothly.

The main reason I'm at a loss is that the problem does not normally appear at all, even when using the devices that may be responsible for it. I'd rather not throw away money replacing all the hubs and cables just to learn it's a Rosetta glitch... but on the other hand it is so similar to the problems caused by the interference and there is no hint online that Rosetta may be causing such problems. Maybe it's too early for things like that to come out...


With Logitech all I can do is wait for native M1 software. Hopefully won't take them tool long.

 

[MacCheetah3]

I did have a week of BT issues with a 2012 Mac mini and only one with the M1 Mac mini, when I mistakenly placed a USB SSD I was temporarily working with between the mini and my Magic Trackpad 2. However, I wasn’t able to replicate the interference. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Any who!..

I did a little more research.

I do quite a lot of video conferencing - Skype, Google Meetings and Microsoft Teams have all been in use on this particular Mini. The problem has manifested itself only twice, when sharing the clip from VLC window. All the other video conferences went very smoothly.

VLC has an M1 native version.

You can verify by either:

1. Open/Launch VLC
2. Go to VLC media player (menu) -> About VLC media player
3. The version should be shown near the top of the window. For example:
Version 3.0.16 Vetinari (Apple Silicon)

1. Go to Finder
2. Open Applications and single click VLC
3. Go to File (menu) -> Get Info
For Kind: you’ll see either Application (Apple Silicon) or Application (Intel)

* I included the step-by-step just in case.
** For future reference Application (Universal) is both Apple Silicon and Intel compatible/optimized

From what I’m seeing Skype isn’t yet Apple Silicon optimized and, from what I’m reading on the Web, MS Teams isn’t yet either. I’m not certain of the compatibility status of Google Meetings. So, you’ll need to check into that. To the point… It could be the not yet fully compatible meeting software having stability, resource, whatnot issues — or at least I’d consider it a potential culprit.

Nevertheless, the USB + BT conflicts is still good to keep in the back of your mind.

 

[geejay9876]

I had also plenty of USB-C interference making Bluetooth connections unsusable. Since clamping a ferrite bead on the USB-c cable of the hub the problems went away. These ferrite beads are dirt cheap.

 

[sneeks]

1. The lesser problem has to do with the Logitech keyboard. It has an ability to switch between media keys and function keys with the fn+esc shortcut. On several occasions this would switch on its own, several times in a row. Can it be caused by interference? Is it possible this is a glitch with Logitech software running on Rosetta? It is not particularly problematic as I can continue typing without any problems, but I could not find any reference to this happening on the web and I wonder what it may be.

I have experienced this issue but it stopped doing it after I moved the unifying receiver away from the MM by using a USB extension cable. I’m also running the beta version of Logi Options+ which works well, only thing not working is the onscreen display when I change the keyboard backlit brightness.

Edit: Backlight brighness oncscreen display is now working with Logi Options+

 

[Q'iq'el]

I have experienced this issue but it stopped doing it after I moved the unifying receiver away from the MM by using a USB extension cable. I’m also running the beta version of Logi Options which works well, only thing not working is the onscreen display when I change the keyboard backlit brightness.

So that one too goes under interferences? This is more of a mess than I've ever imagined.

I haven't tried moving the Unifying Receiver away from the Mini, because on my previous Mac it would be recognized only if connected directly to the USB port. When it was connected to the hub, away from the MacBook, neither the system or the Logi Options would see the keyboard at all. I'll have to check if it works with the Mini though.

 

[Q'iq'el]

I've sort of solved (I think) the problem and had no reoccurrence of the issue, so an update is in order.

As I'd originally wrote, the Magic Mouse (original version) was supposed to be replaced with Magic Trackpad 2, which I've finally done at the end of the last week. Since then I've made several presentations via video conference software and the issue with jittery and laggy cursor has not reappeared.

I believe the old Magic Mouse might have not been capable of dealing with the interferences - perhaps the old Bluetooth specifications were at fault, or maybe the new Mini cannot deal with such an old Bluetooth device. The new trackpad works flawlessly even though no other changes were made to my system's configuration.