Love the OS, hate the machine

[Asu]

Hello - I am getting fed up with the frozen nature of Apple laptops. SSD, RAM soldered on the motherboard, nothing to upgrade when years go by and cheaper products with higher capacity become available. I don't care about the beauty, I'm fine with it being a few mm thicker, etc. So I'm wondering about buying a windows machine and installing Mac OS. A few questions: Do I have to use an older version of OS written with Intel in mind (10.x only) or v11.x, 12.x would also work? Will there be a time when an update would fail on a WinPC? What type of specifications should I look for in the computer itself? I can do some things but I am far from being an experienced hacker. Thanks.

 

[LeeW]

You need to look at creating a Hackintosh, there are plenty of sites and guides to help you. It's not that easy, you can't just use any hardware and some things won't work. It's something you need to be committed to, it's not for everyone.

 

[Technerd108]

Honestly you either deal with Apple and their machines or don’t use them. Most of the things that you are complaining about have been industry wide standard across platforms. Try buying any new windows laptop and try to find anything upgradable beyond the ram (maybe) or ssd and it is impossible except for a few niche products or gaming laptop.

Also part of the entire point of the M1 macs is the fast integration between the ram, processor and ssd. They are all on the chip which makes them even faster.

If you want upgradability you will have to get a desktop windows computer with modular cpu, gpu, ram and ssd. Even then the motherboard will have compatibility issues over time.

A new MBP or air with M1 pro or M2 and decent ram and ssd storage will last you a long time. Technology is always moving at a break neck pace and part of the design is planned obsolescence.

The only other option is running Linux on a desktop to get the longest lifespan.

I would not recommend a Hackintosh as you are going to run into problems and it is illegal technically speaking.

 

[Asu]

Thank you both for your input.

 

[mi7chy]

Doesn't hurt to to learn. Here's a Lenovo Yoga C930 with touch and pen inputs. Only drawback is Intel CPU so you probably want to turn off CPU turbo boost to tame heat. I see C940 for ~$300 which has 10nm 11th gen Intel CPU instead of 14nm 10th gen but wonder how hackintoshable that is.

Update: C940 looks promising...

https://www.reddit.com/r/hackintosh/comments/nwdk23

 

[Aoligei]

Hello - I am getting fed up with the frozen nature of Apple laptops. SSD, RAM soldered on the motherboard, nothing to upgrade when years go by and cheaper products with higher capacity become available. I don't care about the beauty, I'm fine with it being a few mm thicker, etc. So I'm wondering about buying a windows machine and installing Mac OS. A few questions: Do I have to use an older version of OS written with Intel in mind (10.x only) or v11.x, 12.x would also work? Will there be a time when an update would fail on a WinPC? What type of specifications should I look for in the computer itself? I can do some things but I am far from being an experienced hacker. Thanks.

I would not recommend Hackintosh laptop, you will be look very hard to find a laptop that is 100% compatible with macOS. Even if you can find now, doesn't mean next update of macOS will not break things.

Taking example of macOS 11.3 update, ALL my USB port stopped working and luckily I had cloned by my installation before upgrading. I have to boot into my cloned drive and mapping my USB port one buy one, redo my config.plist in order to get things back to normal.

Wi-Fi is other thing you will almost guarantee to loss, macOS only work with handful Wi-Fi chips. I can't help to think the usefulness of Hackintosh Laptop without working Wi-Fi.

 

[Aoligei]

Honestly you either deal with Apple and their machines or don’t use them. Most of the things that you are complaining about have been industry wide standard across platforms. Try buying any new windows laptop and try to find anything upgradable beyond the ram (maybe) or ssd and it is impossible except for a few niche products or gaming laptop.

Also part of the entire point of the M1 macs is the fast integration between the ram, processor and ssd. They are all on the chip which makes them even faster.

I will be fine with user replaceable RAM and SSD. I am typing this on 2012 MacBook Pro with upgraded RAM and 500GB SSD along with 2TB HDD, runs macOS Monetary just fine. You won't able do to any of this if everything is soldered into motherboard.

If you want upgradability you will have to get a desktop windows computer with modular cpu, gpu, ram and ssd. Even then the motherboard will have compatibility issues over time.

A new MBP or air with M1 pro or M2 and decent ram and ssd storage will last you a long time. Technology is always moving at a break neck pace and part of the design is planned obsolescence.

Only time will tell how long M1 or M2 Mac will last. I won't hold my breath if these machine go past 7 years of support.

The only other option is running Linux on a desktop to get the longest lifespan.

I would not recommend a Hackintosh as you are going to run into problems and it is illegal technically speaking.

Apple doesn't care if single user do Hackintosh, otherwise Apple would already sued bunch of users to bankruptcy. Apple only care if you start telling Hackintosh hardwares. It is just like Microsoft remotely care about if end user using Windows without legitimate license.

 

[LeeW]

Apple doesn't care if single user do Hackintosh, otherwise Apple would already sued bunch of users to bankruptcy. Apple only care if you start telling Hackintosh hardwares.

Apple does care about all the users going down the Hackintosh route, they just can't do anything about it. Well, now they can. With Apple Silicon, the Hackintosh is now an option that will come to an end soon enough.

 

[Aoligei]

Apple does care about all the users going down the Hackintosh route, they just can't do anything about it. Well, now they can. With Apple Silicon, the Hackintosh is now an option that will come to an end soon enough.

Vast majority of Hackintosh users will sign in with their AppleID and have their name, address tied to it.

If Apple really care about user going down to Hackintosh route, they will take action, at least send them lawyer letter.

Apple care more about recurring payment. User of Hackintosh will undoubtedly subscribe to Apple’s subscription service of some some short. This will make Apple money. Even if they don’t, it is good enough for them. To Apple, Hackintosh could be a gateway drug to actual real Apple hardware sale.

It is same mentality where Gate want all pirate users using Windows.

 

[LeeW]

If Apple really care about user going down to Hackintosh route, they will take action, at least send them lawyer letter.

No, they won't. But like I say, the Hackintosh days are numbered so makes little difference, Apple can close the gate on this gap.

 

[Aoligei]

No, they won't. But like I say, the Hackintosh days are numbered so makes little difference, Apple can close the gate on this gap.

Natively, Yes. Virtually no.

 

[Feek]

But like I say, the Hackintosh days are numbered so makes little difference

People are still running PowerPC Macs. I expect Hackintoshes running Monterey and Ventura to be in use for a long, long time.

 

[LeeW]

People are still running PowerPC Macs. I expect Hackintoshes running Monterey and Ventura to be in use for a long, long time.

Sure, those are enthusiasts, but the OP does not want old hardware much like many looking for alternatives these days, it's about finding a cheaper option to run macOS but with modern hardware, not running things like PowerPC.

 

[Feek]

Sure, those are enthusiasts

I'd take a guess that anyone running a hackintosh is an enthusiast.

 

[LeeW]

I'd take a guess that anyone running a hackintosh is an enthusiast.

The OP clearly isn't. Many are just not willing to pay Apple's pricing anymore, that is not about being an enthusiast.

 

[Aoligei]

People are still running PowerPC Macs. I expect Hackintoshes running Monterey and Ventura to be in use for a long, long time.

I really cannot tell other than running really really old application, what is purpose of running PowerPC Mac. And I really really can’t tell why would anyone running Monterey and Ventura on PC when you can obtain old Mac for cheap.

 

[mi7chy]

I really cannot tell other than running really really old application, what is purpose of running PowerPC Mac. And I really really can’t tell why would anyone running Monterey and Ventura on PC when you can obtain old Mac for cheap.

PowerPC doubles up as a house heater especially if you have the quad G5.

Hackintosh PC offers much more performance than any real Mac at much lower price plus you can multi-boot Windows and Linux. That's why Apple wants to kill of x64 Macs since it also eliminates the increasingly popular Hackintosh.

 

[Aoligei]

PowerPC doubles up as a house heater especially if you have the quad G5.

Hackintosh PC offers much more performance than any real Mac at much lower price plus you can multi-boot Windows and Linux. That's why Apple wants to kill of x64 Macs since it also eliminates the increasingly popular Hackintosh.

Hahaha... I did laugh out for the PowerPC parts.

I think end of Hackintosh road is closed off very soon. I mean Apple isn't going to put support of new x86 processor down the road. Intel is already in 12th Gen. Alder Lake processor and processor support will be questionable at best. You will be hard to find PC that is capable for Hackintosh very very soon. Of course, you can still purchase some Ice Lake or Coffee Lake based PC today, but I highly doubt this would be the case few years down the road. Plus you can get some recent Intel Mac for relative cheaper price now, the advantage of Hackintosh is quickly diminishing right now.

 

[Romain_H]

That's why Apple wants to kill of x64 Macs since it also eliminates the increasingly popular Hackintosh.

Hardly. Apple just moves to an architecture vastly superior for its appliances

 

[EuroChilli]

The OP clearly isn't. Many are just not willing to pay Apple's pricing anymore, that is not about being an enthusiast.

Anymore? They haven't really changed that much. I paid basically the same for my 2020 13" M1 Air as I did for my 2011 MBP 13", yet I got a whole lot more laptop in a lot less physical space and at almost half the weight, and it doesn't even think about breaking a sweat. So no, I can't use this M1 as a space/lap heater anymore like I did with my MBP 2011. The M1 is now officially just a computer.

If this new laptop lasts even half as long as my old MBP I'll be happy, but that old beast is actually still working, except for software compatibility issues.

Remember how much you paid for the first ever Apple I? $666, but what did you get for that?

 

[mi7chy]

Hardly. Apple just moves to an architecture vastly superior for its appliances

Too slow. $360 5900x is faster than M1 Ultra in the $4K+ Mac Studio that has relatively no software.

https://www.cgdirector.com/cinebench-r23-scores-updated-results/

 

[Romain_H]

At what power consumption? Performance is just one of a whole plethora of metrics. For most people not the most important one. Plus you missed the „for its appliances“. Apple sells predominantly laptops. No x86 can remotely compete with Apple Silicon, all things considered

 

[mi7chy]

At what power consumption? Performance is just one of a whole plethora of metrics. For most people not the most important one. Plus you missed the „for its appliances“. Apple sells predominantly laptops. No x86 can remotely compete with Apple Silicon, all things considered

Too slow, costly, heavy and consumes too much power. Here's a <=$1200 4.2 pound laptop that pulls ~100W total from wall that's twice as fast as $5K Mac Studio at more than double the power consumption and almost double the weight.

Blender BMW
16.39s - Nvidia 3060 70W mobile (GPU OptiX Blender 3.0)
34s - M1 Ultra 20CPU 64GPU (GPU Metal Blender 3.1)

 

[Romain_H]

Too slow, costly, heavy and consumes too much power. Here's a <=$1200 4.2 pound laptop that pulls ~100W total from wall that's twice as fast as $5K Mac Studio at more than double the power consumption and almost double the weight.

Blender BMW
16.39s - Nvidia 3060 70W mobile (GPU OptiX Blender 3.0)
34s - M1 Ultra 20CPU 64GPU (GPU Metal Blender 3.1)

Funny. Your cherry picking and comparing apples to oranges never gets old.

How about some real world comparison?

Not looking good for Intel. Your claims pretty much smoked as well

 

[StellarVixen]

Funny. Your cherry picking and comparing apples to oranges never gets old.

How about some real world comparison?

Not looking good for Intel. Your claims pretty much smoked as well

The problem with these x86 laptops is that hardware has gotten more powerful in the last few years while the battery technology hasn’t caught up.

None of them can run the dGPU on battery power alone for example. What’s the use of RTX 3xxx in my laptop if I cannot use it while I am not plugged in?