M1 - MacOS VM on MacOS host

[Frankenstein's Fat Foot]

Here's the situation.

Got a MBP early 2015 for personal stuff (iCloud photos etc., personal banking, running YNAB4, eBay etc. literally nothing more intensive than this) works great.

Getting a new 14" M1 MBP for work next week.

Rather than deal with two Macs and fiddling with cables etc, can I run a personal Mac OS VM inside the new work 14" M1 MBP?

Main questions:

- Im a technical person and always used KVM/virtualbox on Windows/Linux. Can I do this with off the shelf software like Parallels? Paid is no problem if it solves this. All the Parallels literature seems to point out Windows virtualised on M1 which I am not interested in. I don't want to start cloning random GitHub repo full of unsupported scripts linked off a iffy blog post either.

- Can I log into my work iCloud on the host machine and my personal iCloud account on the VM at the same time? I've seen a few posts scattered around from last year that say this is not possible but I think these were based on the method with the GitHub clones above. I have a gut feeling their might need to be some kind of ID of the hardware to prevent this from working.

Thanks in advance

 

[adcx64]

Parallels supports Mac OS 12.

 

[Frankenstein's Fat Foot]

Parallels supports Mac OS 12.

Thanks for the reply - that is helpful. I guess the part at the end:

"Note: Productivity and integration feature are not available to this system yet." means that you can't iCloud login on the VM?

 

[bobcomer]

If you want to run an x86 version of Mac OS in a VM, Parallels wont do it, it only runs Arm if the host as an M1. UTM (a front end to KVM) can run x86 MacOS, but you wont like it. Fiddle with the cables.

I've never personally seen any trouble at all having more than one Mac instance being signed into iCloud at the same time. VM or not.

 

[adcx64]

Thanks for the reply - that is helpful. I guess the part at the end:

"Note: Productivity and integration feature are not available to this system yet." means that you can't iCloud login on the VM?

I think it just means no nested copy/paste or file sharing between host and VM.

 

[bobcomer]

Thanks for the reply - that is helpful. I guess the part at the end:

"Note: Productivity and integration feature are not available to this system yet." means that you can't iCloud login on the VM?

No, that means disk sharing with the host and other Parallels functions don't work with the host.

 

[Frankenstein's Fat Foot]

Found this, which I guess is where you image is from:

KB Parallels: Install macOS virtual machine on a Mac with Apple silicon

1. It's possible to create virtual machines only.

kb.parallels.com

It mentions below about not being able to register with Apple ID so possibly means you can't also login with one.

Quote:

Limitations​

To run a macOS Monterey VM on Mac computers with Apple M1 chips, Parallels Desktop 17 uses new technology introduced in macOS Monterey, that's why it is not possible to run earlier versions of macOS on a Mac with Apple M1 chips.

Most productivity and integration features are not available to this VM yet. It is not possible to suspend and resume the VM, shared folders and snapshots are not supported for now. Apart from that it is currently not possible to adjust guest macOS screen resolution in real-time mode when resizing ratio; to change virtual machine amount of CPU and RAM or its hardware parameters (Device UUID and Serial number) and to register with Apple ID. USB and camera sharing are also missing in macOS Monterey VM running on a Mac with Apple M1 chips so far.

Note: On Mac computers with Intel processors macOS Monterey 12 VM is featured with a full list of enhanced integration similar to what other Intel-based macOS virtual machines have.

 

[Frankenstein's Fat Foot]

If you want to run an x86 version of Mac OS in a VM, Parallels wont do it, it only runs Arm if the host as an M1. UTM (a front end to KVM) can run x86 MacOS, but you wont like it. Fiddle with the cables.

No I don't want x86, ARM MacOS is fine.

I've never personally seen any trouble at all having more than one Mac instance being signed into iCloud at the same time. VM or not.

OK - so you are using Parallels on an Host M1 Mac running Monterey with a Monterey VM and both machines are signed into different iCloud accounts? That's basically what I am after.

Thanks

(Edited as pressed submit too soon)

 

[Frankenstein's Fat Foot]

I think it just means no nested copy/paste or file sharing between host and VM.

Which is perfectly fine - I don't need any integration at all between the host and the vm.

 

[bobcomer]

No I don't want x86, ARM MacOS is fine.


OK - so you are using Parallels on an Host M1 Mac running Monterey with a Monterey VM and both machines are signed into different iCloud accounts? That's basically what I am after.

Thanks

(Edited as pressed submit too soon)

No, I'm without an M1 machine at the moment, my M1 MBA is ready for trade-in and my Mac Studio wont arrive for 3 weeks. So I can't really confirm if the M1 version has the problem of not being able to sign into iCloud, but I can't imagine what the limitation might be and if it's different than the intel Parallels. (actually, if Mac OS 12 is looking for an Apple hardware ID, that could be the blocking point, but Parallels should be able to do something about that.).

There's also tech preview of VMWare Fusion to consider to run the VM as well.

I have a Monterey VM installing on my Intel Mac Mini (Monterey) right now, but I guess that wouldn't be a for sure enough answer for you. Sorry. I know it wasn't a limitation of older MacOS versions, as I've had a need for a MacOS vm a few times. If it is, you could always set up a new iCLoud ID and share the two via family sharing if it really is a problem. (I had to do that for some xcode testing...)

 

[Frankenstein's Fat Foot]

No, I'm without an M1 machine at the moment, my M1 MBA is ready for trade-in and my Mac Studio wont arrive for 3 weeks. So I can't really confirm if the M1 version has the problem of not being able to sign into iCloud, but I can't imagine what the limitation might be and if it's different than the intel Parallels. (actually, if Mac OS 12 is looking for an Apple hardware ID, that could be the blocking point, but Parallels should be able to do something about that.).

There's also tech preview of VMWare Fusion to consider to run the VM as well.

I have a Monterey VM installing on my Intel Mac Mini (Monterey) right now, but I guess that wouldn't be a for sure enough answer for you. Sorry. I know it wasn't a limitation of older MacOS versions, as I've had a need for a MacOS vm a few times. If it is, you could always set up a new iCLoud ID and share the two via family sharing if it really is a problem. (I had to do that for some xcode testing...)

Thanks for the thorough response - really appreciated.

Yeh my only feeling with the hardware ID on a VM is around Apple wanting to sell you as much tin as possible. It's probably unwarranted on my behalf and as I said just a gut feel.

 

[bobcomer]

Thanks for the thorough response - really appreciated.

Yeh my only feeling with the hardware ID on a VM is around Apple wanting to sell you as much tin as possible. It's probably unwarranted on my behalf and as I said just a gut feel.

I'll test it for you, you have me curious about it too. It's not as if I can't flatten my M1 MBA again after testing. Might take a couple or three hours though. I have the Parallels license already. (I mainly did Windows and Linux VM's on my MBA and it really isn't suited for it, that's why I'm trading it in.)

 

[Frankenstein's Fat Foot]

I'll test it for you, you have me curious about it too. It's not as if I can't flatten my M1 MBA again after testing. Might take a couple or three hours though. I have the Parallels license already. (I mainly did Windows and Linux VM's on my MBA and it really isn't suited for it, that's why I'm trading it in.)

Thanks very much, that's really helpful of you.

 

[bobcomer]

Thanks very much, that's really helpful of you.

No Problem, just give me a little while.

 

[nastysailboat]

out of curiosity, why do you wanna do this? I have a feeling there might be a better way to do what you want! Is it just for sharing files between the computers?

 

[bobcomer]

Thanks very much, that's really helpful of you.

Well, you were right to be worried about it, it doesn't work.

When setting up a VM, you don't get the activation prompt like an M1 machine, and during later setup, the same apple id just says it failed. After setup, trying to sign in to apple ID says "can not be verified" right away.

Based on that it must use the same activation, so whatever way the Mac keeps its stash of info that's on the SSD, it's not emulated by parallels.

I was wrong to say it shouldn't be a problem, sorry, but at least we know now.

The intel's MacOS VM signs in to apple ID with no problem.

As an aside, this is another reason bootcamp will never work on an M1 based machine without a lot of work on Apple's part... (not that I ever wanted that)

 

[Frankenstein's Fat Foot]

out of curiosity, why do you wanna do this? I have a feeling there might be a better way to do what you want! Is it just for sharing files between the computers?

Did you read my OP?

 

[Frankenstein's Fat Foot]

Well, you were right to be worried about it, it doesn't work.

When setting up a VM, you don't get the activation prompt like an M1 machine, and during later setup, the same apple id just says it failed. After setup, trying to sign in to apple ID says "can not be verified" right away.

Based on that it must use the same activation, so whatever way the Mac keeps its stash of info that's on the SSD, it's not emulated by parallels.

I was wrong to say it shouldn't be a problem, sorry, but at least we know now.

The intel's MacOS VM signs in to apple ID with no problem.

As an aside, this is another reason bootcamp will never work on an M1 based machine without a lot of work on Apple's part... (not that I ever wanted that)

Thanks so much for testing that, really appreciated. And now you know too!

Yup my gut feel was there would be some kind of link or hash or ID between logged in appleid and enclave or something in the same ballpark as TPM. As mentioned I would be using my work appleid on the host OS and my personal appleid on the guest VM.

I'm now looking into having a bootable TB3 (seems only TB3 is supported on Monterey, not just USB C) external drive which would house my 'personal' Monterey image and just boot off that on the M1 MBP 14 when I want to go to my personal Mac.

That's my current line of enquiry now.

 

[bobcomer]

Thanks so much for testing that, really appreciated. And now you know too!

Yup my gut feel was there would be some kind of link or hash or ID between logged in appleid and enclave or something in the same ballpark as TPM. As mentioned I would be using my work appleid on the host OS and my personal appleid on the guest VM.

I'm now looking into having a bootable TB3 (seems only TB3 is supported on Monterey, not just USB C) external drive which would house my 'personal' Monterey image and just boot off that on the M1 MBP 14 when I want to go to my personal Mac.

That's my current line of enquiry now.

Yep, I know now.

Your plan to boot the external could work, but I don't think it's as easy as it used to be. Looks like it needs a real thunderbolt 3 drive, so that's more expensive.

How to start up your M1 or M2 Mac from an external drive

Need to boot your M-series Mac with an external drive? It's not as easy as it used to be, as it likely requires you purchase new hardware.

www.macworld.com

 

[Frankenstein's Fat Foot]

Yep, I know now.

Your plan to boot the external could work, but I don't think it's as easy as it used to be. Looks like it needs a real thunderbolt 3 drive, so that's more expensive.

How to start up your M1 or M2 Mac from an external drive

Need to boot your M-series Mac with an external drive? It's not as easy as it used to be, as it likely requires you purchase new hardware.

www.macworld.com

Yup going down the path of external boot or dual partition. As you say so much of it has changed now with M1 / Monterey. It's not as simple as it used to be.

 

[chrfr]

Yup going down the path of external boot or dual partition. As you say so much of it has changed now with M1 / Monterey. It's not as simple as it used to be.

That Macworld article is pretty outdated in terms of setting up an external boot disk. This one is newer, and it works with a USB-C drive: https://eclecticlight.co/2021/11/11/creating-a-bootable-external-disk-with-an-m1-pro-in-monterey/

 

[Frankenstein's Fat Foot]

That Macworld article is pretty outdated in terms of setting up an external boot disk. This one is newer, and it works with a USB-C drive: https://eclecticlight.co/2021/11/11/creating-a-bootable-external-disk-with-an-m1-pro-in-monterey/

Thanks very much for this.

I think this might be the route to go down. Work MBP with a personal install on an external drive.

 

[chrfr]

Thanks very much for this.

I think this might be the route to go down. Work MBP with a personal install on an external drive.

If your work computer is enrolled in an MDM that applies a managed configuration to the computer, this will not work around that– the computer will enroll on the external disk too.