M1x with 'secondary' RAM possible?

[Mr Screech]

Do you think it's possible that they'd release an M1X iMac with RAM that's still user upgradeable?
A sort of secondary RAM? So you'd buy a 8/16/32 GB onchip-ram M1x, but can add 128GB of DDR4 RAM to it.
Could M1 cpu's work like this, or is this impossible?
I don't need the fastest RAM, I just need a lot.

 

[AAPLGeek]

Do you think it's possible that they'd release an M1X iMac with RAM that's still user upgradeable?
A sort of secondary RAM? So you'd buy a 8/16/32 GB onchip-ram M1x, but can add 128GB of DDR4 RAM to it.
Could M1 cpu's work like this, or is this impossible?
I don't need the fastest RAM, I just need a lot.

It's certainly possible, but will Apple do it? Highly unlikely.

Non-user upgradable RAM is immensely profitable for Apple and there's no way they're going to change that moving forward.

If you want to stick to MacOS and have lots of RAM available, your only option is the current Intel iMac or the Mac Pro.

 

[Erasmus]

Not impossible, but I suspect complicated. Basically guaranteeing that RAM would be mixed, and therefore making RAM dual channel modes difficult to maintain.

Any clarification about what you need so much RAM for?

You could consider the effects of Virtual RAM. If you don't need the fastest RAM speeds, maybe SSD speeds could be good enough? SSD might be around 1/4 of the speed of RAM in an optimistic scenario.

If you need the RAM for your own programming, you could use disk space instead in key areas. Otherwise, let Mac OS deal with disk swaps automatically, and see how it goes.

 

[Mr Screech]

Not impossible, but I suspect complicated. Basically guaranteeing that RAM would be mixed, and therefore making RAM dual channel modes difficult to maintain.

Any clarification about what you need so much RAM for?

You could consider the effects of Virtual RAM. If you don't need the fastest RAM speeds, maybe SSD speeds could be good enough? SSD might be around 1/4 of the speed of RAM in an optimistic scenario.

If you need the RAM for your own programming, you could use disk space instead in key areas. Otherwise, let Mac OS deal with disk swaps automatically, and see how it goes.

I need to run multiple render instances of a program, After Effects.
So when you need 16GB of RAM per instance/core, it adds up.

SSD swaps seem too slow, is there some sort of mac utility to assign SSD space to ram?
I doubt this would work honestly, but might give it a try.

 

[Erasmus]

Mac OS should do it automatically. If you run out of RAM, SSD space will start being used, without user input. Just make sure you have your 100GB+ of free space on your boot drive, and calculations should keep ticking along well after you've filled RAM.
So if you're already struggling with limited RAM and poor performance, it's unlikely it will get any better. If you're worried about trying to fit all your work into available RAM no exceptions, you don't need to.

You might consider investing in a Windows workstation to perform that task, or in the Mac Pro, depending on budget. But 128GB RAM, middling CPU and GPU shouldn't be all that bad on the wallet if you go for a Windows PC.

 

[JohnnyGo]

I need to run multiple render instances of a program, After Effects.
So when you need 16GB of RAM per instance/core, it adds up.

SSD swaps seem too slow, is there some sort of mac utility to assign SSD space to ram?
I doubt this would work honestly, but might give it a try.

You will probably need to wait for the new M1 Mac Pro. That should allow you to configure a 128Gb RAM or more.

The M1X machines will all have fixed non upgradeable RAM. No doubt 16/32/64Gb will be the only options. 32Gb 100% sure. A little less sure about 16 & 64Gb

 

[ondioline]

They'd probably have to add new DDR channels to the chip, but there is nothing preventing them from doing it if that is what you mean.

I believe their processors require integral memory for the GPU, neural engine, and AMX coprocessor however. That is to say, they can make an M* chip with "external" memory channels no problem, but there will likely never be a M* chip that doesn't have "internal" memory due to the architecture. In this setup, the onboard memory wouldn't functionally be any different than the GDDR/HBM that comes with a laptop GPU.

 

[leman]

Do you think it's possible that they'd release an M1X iMac with RAM that's still user upgradeable?
A sort of secondary RAM? So you'd buy a 8/16/32 GB onchip-ram M1x, but can add 128GB of DDR4 RAM to it.

The chance of that happening is slim to none. What you want is expensive, difficult to pull off and ultimately not very useful. Not something Apple is known to do. Maybe they will have some sort of upgradeable RAM on the Mac Pro, but who knows, really.

I need to run multiple render instances of a program, After Effects.
So when you need 16GB of RAM per instance/core, it adds up.

I am not quite sure what you are trying to do with it, but this does not seem like a good use model from the hardware standpoint. Instead of running multiple render instances in parallel, you will probably be much better off running a single instance that utilizes all cores, and doing the work sequentially. This will likely result in much better cache and bandwidth utilization and thus allow the CPU to do it's work better.

They'd probably have to add new DDR channels to the chip, but there is nothing preventing them from doing it if that is what you mean.

There is also nothing preventing Tesla from making a sedan that would the attachment points for converting it into a pickup truck... except you know, common sense

 

[Mr Screech]

Thanks for the info, sad to hear it probably won't happen.

After Effects is terribly optimized for multi-threading compared to 3d or video editing. The latest beta shows improvement since 5+ years, but is still unstable. The only way to get full benefit of your system is to split your workload into several instances which all render a small portion of your timeline. Taxing on RAM but at least your CPU gets fully utilized.

 

[leman]

Thanks for the info, sad to hear it probably won't happen.

After Effects is terribly optimized for multi-threading compared to 3d or video editing. The latest beta shows improvement since 5+ years, but is still unstable. The only way to get full benefit of your system is to split your workload into several instances which all render a small portion of your timeline. Taxing on RAM but at least your CPU gets fully utilized.

Ugh, that does sound very annoying. Typical Adobe

I do expect the upcoming prosumer Macs to have reasonable RAM options (up to 64GB I'd guess), but that's about it. The usual high-end professional configurations average around 4GB per core, and Apple is likely to stay within that range...

Frankly, if After Effects is your bread and butter, you might be better served with a custom Ryzen/Threadripper Windows workstation that will allow you to get plenty of RAM.

 

[crazy dave]

Ugh, that does sound very annoying. Typical Adobe

I do expect the upcoming prosumer Macs to have reasonable RAM options (up to 64GB I'd guess), but that's about it. The usual high-end professional configurations average around 4GB per core, and Apple is likely to stay within that range...

Frankly, if After Effects is your bread and butter, you might be better served with a custom Ryzen/Threadripper Windows workstation that will allow you to get plenty of RAM.

I can’t remember where I saw it, probably Twitter, but apparently there are references in macOS to what appears to be an Ice Lake Xeon Mac Pro that has yet to materialize. It may never, but there have been multiple rumors that Apple will release another Intel Mac Pro. Honestly AMD would probably be better for this kind of work (better value and thermals), but if the OP wants to stay in the Mac ecosystem and is willing to wait it might be an option.

The rumored end-of-next-year mini pro machine might offer higher levels of RAM but doubtful it will be user-replaceable if it follows the design of the M1 and thus quite expensive.

 

[Erasmus]

Frankly, if After Effects is your bread and butter, you might be better served with a custom Ryzen/Threadripper Windows workstation that will allow you to get plenty of RAM.

100% agree.

Also, I think it's worth pointing out that considering the cost of the Mac Pro, one could buy such a custom AMD workstation with 128GB RAM...

...AND buy whatever highly specced iMac/MBP you wanted...

...AND still have plenty of cash to spare.

 

[ondioline]

There is also nothing preventing Tesla from making a sedan that would the attachment points for converting it into a pickup truck... except you know, common sense

Tesla is literally making a pickup truck. So by your own point, we can expect an M processor with additional DDR channels. What a dumb example lol

 

[Mr Screech]

...AND still have plenty of cash to spare.

MacPro would be overkill for my needs right now. However an iMac gets you a 5k screen, a GPU for an affordable price compared to the ridiculous gpu market right now and RAM wil be the same price(nobody buys the RAM from the Apple Store when you can upgrade yourself), so an iMac is a better deal than any PC build right now.

I need to wait and see what Apple's next step will be. That will decide whether I'm going to build a hackintosh(intel) again, get the old iMac or get the new mac. Not a fan of windows since windows 7.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP:
"Do you think it's possible that they'd release an M1X iMac with RAM that's still user upgradeable?"

Fishrrman fearless prediction:
Apple will NEVER release another MacBook Pro or MacBook or MacBook Air with "user-upgradeable RAM" or user-upgradeable storage again.

Never...

 

[Andropov]

User-upgradeable storage is far easier to do in this case than user-upgradeable RAM.

Neither is technically impossible, though.

 

[cmaier]

OP:
"Do you think it's possible that they'd release an M1X iMac with RAM that's still user upgradeable?"

Fishrrman fearless prediction:
Apple will NEVER release another MacBook Pro or MacBook or MacBook Air with "user-upgradeable RAM" or user-upgradeable storage again.

Never...

I think it’s plausible the Mac Pro will have slotted RAM.

 

[alex2792]

Not gonna happen, RAM is part of the SOC.

 

[brucewayne]

There isn't anything in that architecture that suggests that will happen - it goes against the idea of SOC or system in a package.

They will bump up available RAM as the M series matures. I think Apple's pov is that the typical customer/business that needs all that capability is already in a cycle of buying/writing off equipment every year

 

[ader42]

Well the current x86 Mac Mini can have 64GB RAM, so maybe the M1X Mac Mini will allow 64GB RAM too?

Then you could buy two of those

However I suspect it will only go to 32GB RAM

I can’t imagine how complex your animations are given I used Cosa After Effects (before Adobe bought it) at college almost 30 years on a Quadra 840AV with I think 128MB RAM. That Mac setup cost a fortune back then but a significant chunk was Avid and associated storage drive costs.

 

[cmaier]

There isn't anything in that architecture that suggests that will happen - it goes against the idea of SOC or system in a package.

They will bump up available RAM as the M series matures. I think Apple's pov is that the typical customer/business that needs all that capability is already in a cycle of buying/writing off equipment every year

Slotted RAM does not go against the idea of SOC.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Question:

Do you think it's possible that they'd release an M1X iMac with RAM that's still user upgradeable?

Answer:

Non-user upgradable RAM is immensely profitable for Apple and there's no way they're going to change that moving forward.

 

[Pro Apple Silicon]

Non-user upgradable RAM is immensely profitable for Apple and there's no way they're going to change that moving forward.

This.

 

[pshufd]

No. They don't offer it in Intel MacBooks; they won't offer it in Apple Silicon MacBooks either.

 

[quarkysg]

Not gonna happen, RAM is part of the SOC.

Yes for SRAM (i.e. the caches) but not the DRAMs.

Nothing stopping any designer to design a system using a SoC with upgradeable memory. They just have to live with the performance hit.