M2 Pro and M2 Max will be disappointing?

[Zest28]

In single core performance, the M2 chip only scores 1800 to 1900 in geekbench. At the same time, the mobile / laptop Intel’s 13th gen chip can do 2000 in single core performance. So it might be the case that the upcoming M2 Pro and M2 Max might not even beat the current line up of Intel in raw performance. And AMD is releasing their new Ryzen CPU line also.


So the M2 Pro and M2 Max might not be as revolutionary as the M1 Pro and M1 Max were, as PC laptops might be more powerful this time.

 

[leman]

Or it might be that M2 prosumer chips are not the same uarch as M2. We will see it when we will see it.

I must ask though: why open multiple threads complaining how bad M2 pro/max will be? Won’t just one thread be sufficient to express your highly valued opinion?

 

[Zest28]

They are 2 different topics. This one is about raw performance problems regarding the CPU of the M2 Pro and M2 Max, while the other is about raw GPU performance problems.

They are 2 different aspects of the chip.

And I highly doubt Apple is not going to reuse the M2 for the M2 Pro and M2 Max.

 

[maflynn]

We really don’t know. Granted the M2 appears to only have minor refinements mostly due to the fabrication process but that doesn’t mean the Pro/Mac/Ultra will have minor enhancements

 

[uller6]

How about this take: I like macs and Mac OS. I don’t like fans or loud computers. Pretty much every computer Apple sells now is fast enough for me and my work. I don’t care about benchmarks and absolute speed: I care about the entire package. I drive a Toyota Camry. Sure, other cars have more horsepower but they have other drawbacks as well. Do you buy cars based on the horsepower and nothing else?

 

[Gudi]

2000 is only 16% more than the M1's 1720 and 11% more than 1800 and 5% more than 1900. Decades ago when computer were still very slow, the rule of thumb was, a CPU needs to be at least +30% faster before the user can feel a difference.

@Zest28 Just do us all a favor and stop reading so much into benchmarks. Please!

 

[jdb8167]

In single core performance, the M2 chip only scores 1800 to 1900 in geekbench. At the same time, the mobile / laptop Intel’s 13th gen chip can do 2000 in single core performance. So it might be the case that the upcoming M2 Pro and M2 Max might not even beat the current line up of Intel in raw performance. And AMD is releasing their new Ryzen CPU line also.


So the M2 Pro and M2 Max might not be as revolutionary as the M1 Pro and M1 Max were, as PC laptops might be more powerful this time.

I get 1940/8930 on my M2 MacBook Air. What mobile Intel SoC are you comparing it to? The top Intel single core is the Core i9-12900KS which gets 2071 in the GB5 Processor list but it is also a 150 W TDP CPU.

Edit: As far as I can tell, Intel hasn't released any mobile Core i7 or i9 13th generation CPUs.

Edit 2: The top 12th generation mobile Intel Core i9 12900HX seems to get top single core scores of 1850-1920. So pretty much the same GB5 score as the M2 but the difference is that max turbo power on the Core i9 12900HX is 157 W vs. about 35 W for the M2 CPU+GPU.

 

[mcnallym]

Never benchmarked my mac studio max. Never benchmarked the i9900k/RX580 hackintosh that run before.

what I can say is that my last two bluray the three musketeers and the four musketeers ripped in mkaemkv in about 15min eachand handbrake videotoolbox hevc av sync and web optized(I do 1080p output on a 27” TV the output is perfectly good enough at viewing distance so I don’t care for the video purist per pixel examine 4K on a 65” screen thanks) turns out a 30min video in about 1:30.

previous hack then bluray rip was about an hour for similar length bluray.

I doubt the m2 version even if 30% quicker would be worthwhile as already so fast where am with m1 max anyway.

apple store was all enthusiastpic giving me the 10 year spiel. Went quiet when asked if that meant Apple would provide OS updates for 10:years as use FCP X and that usually wants latest OS to get the latest release.

maybe just been around computers to get interested in the year on year changes. Very little real change year on year these days, just the sign of a mature product,

 

[VanWinkle]

I don't imagine the 13th gen Intel chips would be able to keep up that performance in a sustained way like the M1 Pro, or on battery power like the M1 Pro, or without running its fans loud like the M1 Pro (and, presumably, the M2 Pro).

It's not just about the Geekbench number.

 

[owidhh]

Expect the internet peanut gallery to be disappointed; expect sales to be as good as ever minus adjustments for inflation, supply shortages,e tc

 

[ian87w]

In single core performance, the M2 chip only scores 1800 to 1900 in geekbench. At the same time, the mobile / laptop Intel’s 13th gen chip can do 2000 in single core performance. So it might be the case that the upcoming M2 Pro and M2 Max might not even beat the current line up of Intel in raw performance. And AMD is releasing their new Ryzen CPU line also.


So the M2 Pro and M2 Max might not be as revolutionary as the M1 Pro and M1 Max were, as PC laptops might be more powerful this time.

That intel chip needs how much power to "beat" the M2 score? The game is no longer just performance, but performance per watt. And I don't see anything changes on intel. Still have high TDPs, need to be plugged in for full performance, and still need a ton of cooling.

 

[Abazigal]

So the M2 Pro and M2 Max might not be as revolutionary as the M1 Pro and M1 Max were, as PC laptops might be more powerful this time.

And I am willing to bet that those windows laptops will have poor battery life, and they won’t be able to sustain said performance when not plugged in to a power outlet.

In short, these new intel chips will not bring improvements that are meaningful to laptop users in any way.

 

[theorist9]

In single core performance, the M2 chip only scores 1800 to 1900 in geekbench. At the same time, the mobile / laptop Intel’s 13th gen chip can do 2000 in single core performance. So it might be the case that the upcoming M2 Pro and M2 Max might not even beat the current line up of Intel in raw performance. And AMD is releasing their new Ryzen CPU line also.

So the M2 Pro and M2 Max might not be as revolutionary as the M1 Pro and M1 Max were, as PC laptops might be more powerful this time.

Everything about this post seems misleading.

First, the Raptor Lake mobile chips are not in Intel's current line-up. According to this Oct 24, 2022 article from notebookcheck.net ( https://www.notebookcheck.net/Rapto...g-two-previously-unknown-models.663824.0.html), they haven't been released yet.

I.e., you're comparing the Mac's current chip with an Intel chip that hasn't yet been released, but presented it as if it has. It's expected we'll see those Intel chips in laptops in Q1 2023, i.e., about the same time we'll be probably be seeing the 3 nm M2 MBP's.

Second, you claim a GB5 SC speed of 2,000 for the 13th gen Intel mobile chip, yet cite no sources.

I did a search of what's been posted thus far on Geekbench for the i9-13900HK, and there's only four results, with a high score of 1870. The fact that there are so few scores is consistent with it being in the pre-release phase:

Third, you assert the the M2 scores 1,800–1,900 in GB5. Yet according the to the average scores posted by Geekbench, it's more accurately described as ~1,900.

 

[leman]

Everything about this post seems misleading.

First, the Raptor Lake mobile chips are not in Intel's current line-up. According to this Oct 24, 2022 article from notebookcheck.net ( https://www.notebookcheck.net/Rapto...g-two-previously-unknown-models.663824.0.html), they haven't been released yet.

I.e., you're comparing the Mac's current chip with an Intel chip that hasn't yet been released, but presented it as if it has. It's expected we'll see those Intel chips in laptops in Q1 2023, i.e., about the same time we'll be seeing the M3 MBP's.

Second, you claim a GB5 SC speed of 2,000 for the 13th gen Intel mobile chip, yet cite no sources.

I did a search of what's been posted thus far on Geekbench for the i9-13900HK, and there's only four results, with a high score of 1870. The fact that there are so few scores is consistent with it being in the pre-release phase:

View attachment 2116004

Third, you assert the the M2 scores 1,800–1,900 in GB5. Yet according the to the average scores posted by Geekbench, it's more accurately described as ~1,900.

View attachment 2116002

Wait, the passively cooled M2 is consistently better in single core than Intels fastest mobile CPU? Aua, that must hurt.

 

[Zest28]

The M2 is not faster than the 13th-gen Intel CPU. See the geekbench results of the Intel 13th gen below. What is even more impressive, in multiscore it comes close to the M1 Ultra, despite being a mobile / laptop cpu.

I don’t see the M2 Pro & Max beating these type of performance numbers.

 

[aperfectcircle]

These doomsday posts are really getting out of hand. My 14” Max (24c GPU) is an absolute beast of a machine and continues to amaze me a year on from when it arrived. A revision with +18%(?) improvement in single core performance is going to deliver an even better experience.

I’m not sure about most of you, but I suspect like me you spend your days doing actual work using applications to create stuff, not running synthetic benchmarks looking at a virtually meaningless number.

 

[fakestrawberryflavor]

If a newer different processor comes out and is slightly faster than the one you’re using now, it doesn’t make the one you’re using now any slower.

Each chip that comes out doesn’t need to be the fastest in every aspect. Something matter much more for different people and different workflows. Some rely on the NPU, some rely on the GPU, some need the memory bandwidth, or a low power target. Single core speed in a benchmark doesn’t really matter if another competitor is slightly faster than it?

Let’s look holistically, at the bigger picture and capability here.

 

[theorist9]

Wait, the passively cooled M2 is consistently better in single core than Intels fastest mobile CPU? Aua, that must hurt.

Yeah, Apple Silicon's SC GB5 scores have exceeded those of every current mobile Intel and AMD chip. So basically the Airs continue to offer higher SC speeds than contemporary 7-lb. high-end gaming notebooks.

 

[theorist9]

The M2 is not faster than the 13th-gen Intel CPU. See the geekbench results of the Intel 13th gen below. What is even more impressive, in multiscore it comes close to the M1 Ultra, despite being a mobile / laptop cpu.

I don’t see the M2 Pro & Max beating these type of performance numbers.

View attachment 2116064

Again, you're engaging the in the common fallacy of comparing a future chip from company B with a current chip from company A.

The i9-HX is Intel's highest-end ultra-enthusiast mobile chip, yet the M2 (GB5 SC ~ 1900) beat the i9-12900HX (GB5 SC ~1850). And the 3 nm M2's will likely equal or exceed the i9-13900HX.

 

[Wizec]

Intel Core 19-13900HX

45W to 157W Intel CPU vs the M2 at up to 20W, and the Intel barely ekes out 5% better single core performance? ‘Nuff said.

 

[Zest28]

In case you missed it, the Intel Core 19-13900HX is much more powerful than the M2.

So comparing it to the power draw of a M2 doesn’t make any sense.

 

[Wizec]

In case you missed it, the Intel Core 19-13900HX is much more powerful than the M2.

So comparing it to the power draw of a M2 doesn’t make any sense.

5% single thread performance advantage is categorically not “much more powerful”

 

[MayaUser]

In case you missed it, the Intel Core 19-13900HX is much more powerful than the M2.

So comparing it to the power draw of a M2 doesn’t make any sense.

dont forget to open another topic about M2 pro/max regarding the unified RAM that will be slower to anything else
If M2 pro/Max (cpu and gpu and ram since you are talking about the SoC and not about cpu only, read your own topic) will come under 3nm in spring , then Intel has already lost it, gpu side there is no competition, on Intel side you have to have a separate gpu to keep up...that means anther W to the whole system and so on...My Intel 12th i7 are burning on projects, while the M1 Max is silent, cold a pleasure to work and also faster (again its i7 and not i9) but still i wanted the i7 to run it non-stop without frying eggs but it still is garbage in every regard compared to the M1 max
Are you buying intel i9 just to run benchmark and show off to your pals with your numbers or you can show some of your own comparative between 12th I8 and the M2 or M1 Max? Because for work, Intel is far behind, for games for the kids and some benchmark that helps almost no-ones is kind of useless. Because i want to see the compression on professional apps that im using in the future with the devices that i will chose

 

[Gudi]

You're comparing the Mac's current chip with an Intel chip that hasn't yet been released, but presented it as if it has. It's expected we'll see those Intel chips in laptops in Q1 2023, i.e., about the same time we'll be seeing the M3 MBP's.

Haha, but he also suggested in another thread, that Apple could just stop the release of any embarrassing further new chips until the benchmarks of the competition are in. So that they could overclock their chips at the last minute and win back a benchmark contest. The good old waiting-at-the-finish-line for a photo-op strategy.

So you see, you can't catch him with Apple did it first and will do it again. Apple doesn't release enough rumors on what the M3 will be capable of, so for all premature comparisons M3 can't do nothing. And M2 Max is just an M2.

 

[MayaUser]

Haha, but he also suggested in another thread, that Apple could just stop the release of any embarrassing further new chips until the benchmarks of the competition are in. So that they could overclock their chips at the last minute and win back a benchmark contest. The good old waiting-at-the-finish-line for a photo-op strategy.

So you see, you can't catch him with Apple did it first and will do it again. Apple doesn't release enough rumors on what the M3 will be capable of, so for all premature comparisons M3 can't do nothing. And M2 Max is just an M2.

Yes, the OP clearly dont use the system on professional level work and dont understand how these things work, and we are facing again with the "that X numbers are bigger than Y number" so X is better
Like a big truck with 1010hp is faster than an F1 car with 1000hp..we have still these comparisons even in 2022 late..but now we have another step in this by comparing something that is not even announced