M2 Pro on its way - prep for future MS Windows installation?

[tigerintank]

I should get my M2 Pro in a couple of days time - thinking about initial set up & have a forward looking q re Windows 11 that I could do with some advice on.

I know that Parallels will allow me to use Windows now and I'm assuming/hoping that at some point there might an Apple Silicon Bootcamp equivalent.

Should I partition some disk space for Windows in advance, rather than try to do it on a working system later?

As a current Intel Mac user it seems likely to be sensible to me to do it at the start and iirc it also allows the SSD to access the unused Windows disk space for wear levelling - if I were to use up a lot of the MacOS partition?

Any thoughts vm welcome.

Also have some other thoughts about migrating from my current Big Sur rMBP 2013 - but I'll do some reading there first. I might need some keychain advice - I'll do a separate post if needed.

 

[SteveOm]

1) The Windows 11 you run with Parallels will be Windows for ARM processors. Not the same as Intel or AMD chips, Most current Windows software will run on it, but not all. You'll want to research compatibility. There are notes on it scattered through the forums.

2) Don't plan on there ever being a Boot Camp option. Mx series Macs are too different and neither Microsoft nor Apple has any economic incentive to do all the hard work to write all the low-level software needed. Microsoft seems to like virtual machines for Mac users who need Windows -- either local virtualization like Parallels or their own cloud hosted Windows desktops.

 

[chrfr]

I'm assuming/hoping that at some point there might an Apple Silicon Bootcamp equivalent.

There is no point in doing any preparation to install Windows on Apple Silicon Macs because the chances of this happening are basically zero. Apple just doesn't have the need for it anymore.

 

[tigerintank]

Thanks for the replies both - seems Parallels is and will be the only game in town.

Is there any merit in partitioning the disk in prep for a future Parallels install do you think?

 

[chrfr]

Thanks for the replies both - seems Parallels is and will be the only game in town.

Is there any merit in partitioning the disk in prep for a future Parallels install do you think?

Parallels doesn't require a partition. The virtual machine is just a file (actually a bundle of files) so there's no reason at all to partition the disk for it.
VMware Fusion also works, and you can use it for free.

 

[Chuckeee]

I’m not particularly interested (and I’m not sure of the utility) but what about a dual MacOS and Linux boot using Mx chip macs?

 

[tigerintank]

Parallels doesn't require a partition. The virtual machine is just a file (actually a bundle of files) so there's no reason at all to partition the disk for it.
VMware Fusion also works, and you can use it for free.

Thank you!

 

[bobcomer]

Is there any merit in partitioning the disk in prep for a future Parallels install do you think?

Not really. Parallels is your best bet and I wouldn't do any special partitioning for it, though you might get an external SSD to put your VM if you're short on space. I also run an M2 Pro -- Mini, 32G RAM, it's a good combo. It's faster than my M1 Max was at doing things I do.

Parallels will do the install of Windows 11 for you but you'll eventually want to buy a Windows 11 key to activate it. (unless you just want to run the insiders version)

 

[bobcomer]

I’m not particularly interested (and I’m not sure of the utility) but what about a dual MacOS and Linux boot using Mx chip macs?

Yuck, not worth it, more trouble than it's worth. If you want to run Linux, run it in a VM.

 

[JustAnExpat]

I know that Parallels will allow me to use Windows now and I'm assuming/hoping that at some point there might an Apple Silicon Bootcamp equivalent.

Should I partition some disk space for Windows in advance, rather than try to do it on a working system later?

Also have some other thoughts about migrating from my current Big Sur rMBP 2013 - but I'll do some reading there first. I might need some keychain advice - I'll do a separate post if needed.

1. There MIGHT BE an Apple Bootcamp equivalent in the future. Or there might not be. Apple has no motivation to support Bootcamp, however Microsoft does. It seems like Microsoft wants Windows to be a service, charged per usage, and I don't think they would put too much effort on Bootcamping either and instead have people use their online VM system. There are no rumors, discussion, or pathway towards an Apple Bootcamp, to my knowledge. Because of this, I suggest using a VM system instead and stop thinking about potential Bootcamp schemes.

2. I do not recommend touching the partition structure of your MacOS Disk if at all possible. Allow the system to manage the wear levels. By the time a bootcamp system is released, I expect the machine to be outdated.

3. Is Windows even a good idea for your set-up? I would not recommend any type of modern gaming on Windows on Arm, because the game would be running in an emulator mode to translate the Arm code to Intel code. I would stick to productivity software programs. You can only use Windows 11 ARM on your machine - unless you want to use a program like UTM to run other operating systems.

 

[JustAnExpat]

Not really. Parallels is your best bet and I wouldn't do any special partitioning for it, though you might get an external SSD to put your VM if you're short on space. I also run an M2 Pro -- Mini, 32G RAM, it's a good combo. It's faster than my M1 Max was at doing things I do.

Parallels will do the install of Windows 11 for you but you'll eventually want to buy a Windows 11 key to activate it. (unless you just want to run the insiders version)

I'm curious about your setup. What do you use Windows for? I am starting to get into Dreamweaver/ Photoshop, and I'm using the Windows version. I have A MacBook Air, 8GB, with 4GB given to Windows 11, and (unsurprisingly) there isn't enough Ram.

 

[tigerintank]

Not really. Parallels is your best bet and I wouldn't do any special partitioning for it, though you might get an external SSD to put your VM if you're short on space. I also run an M2 Pro -- Mini, 32G RAM, it's a good combo. It's faster than my M1 Max was at doing things I do.

Parallels will do the install of Windows 11 for you but you'll eventually want to buy a Windows 11 key to activate it. (unless you just want to run the insiders version)

Thanks - just planning to use my Win 10 key - from what I've read that should work.

 

[chrfr]

I'm curious about your setup. What do you use Windows for? I am starting to get into Dreamweaver/ Photoshop, and I'm using the Windows version. I have A MacBook Air, 8GB, with 4GB given to Windows 11, and (unsurprisingly) there isn't enough Ram.

Why would you not just use the Mac versions of Photoshop and Dreamweaver?

 

[tigerintank]

1. There MIGHT BE an Apple Bootcamp equivalent in the future. Or there might not be. Apple has no motivation to support Bootcamp, however Microsoft does. It seems like Microsoft wants Windows to be a service, charged per usage, and I don't think they would put too much effort on Bootcamping either and instead have people use their online VM system. There are no rumors, discussion, or pathway towards an Apple Bootcamp, to my knowledge. Because of this, I suggest using a VM system instead and stop thinking about potential Bootcamp schemes.

2. I do not recommend touching the partition structure of your MacOS Disk if at all possible. Allow the system to manage the wear levels. By the time a bootcamp system is released, I expect the machine to be outdated.

3. Is Windows even a good idea for your set-up? I would not recommend any type of modern gaming on Windows on Arm, because the game would be running in an emulator mode to translate the Arm code to Intel code. I would stick to productivity software programs. You can only use Windows 11 ARM on your machine - unless you want to use a program like UTM to run other operating systems.

Thanks for your viewpoint. It's clear I shouldn't rely on Bootcamp coming and just accept the virtualisation route - then if it does arrive as a bonus - I can decide whether to change.

Windows is more of a use it when needed thing for me - much less than MacOS and as you say productivity type apps. I'm definitely not a power user or going to use it for games. I do want to have it available though.

I'm just now thinking I could even retain this old Intel rMBP as a separate Windows machine - unlikely to get much if I sell it - a late 2013 rMBP 16G/512G. It'd then also be a backup to the M2 Pro but with an outdated MacOS.

Food for thought...

 

[chrfr]

Windows is more of a use it when needed thing for me - much less than MacOS and as you say productivity type apps. I'm definitely not a power user or going to use it for games.

This is the ideal use for a virtualized Windows installation.

 

[bobcomer]

I'm curious about your setup. What do you use Windows for? I am starting to get into Dreamweaver/ Photoshop, and I'm using the Windows version. I have A MacBook Air, 8GB, with 4GB given to Windows 11, and (unsurprisingly) there isn't enough Ram.

All my real work is in Windows. I'm an IT Manager and have to run quite a variety of stuff, developer tools, home grown apps, admin stuff, and just basic Office type stuff too. No creative stuff. I do a LOT of testing in VMs.

Yeah, you'd really need more RAM to take full advantage of Windows in a VM. Still, it will work for most stuff if you're patient.

 

[bobcomer]

Thanks - just planning to use my Win 10 key - from what I've read that should work.

Yes, it should work!

 

[wonderings]

Why would you not just use the Mac versions of Photoshop and Dreamweaver?

Only thing I can think of is pirated software, there is literally no reason to run them in Windows as licenses/CC is cross platform.

No need for partitions for Parallels, which is a great thing for backups. Your VM gets backed up in TimeMachine or any other backup system you have like any other file or app would be. A Partition obviously takes a set amount of space immediately and you cannot get it back simply. Parallels makes it super easy, install the software. When you load up Parallels for the first time it will ask you if you want to install Windows 11, say yes and let it do its thing. All you need is your activation/reg key and you are done.

 

[tigerintank]

Only thing I can think of is pirated software, there is literally no reason to run them in Windows as licenses/CC is cross platform.

No need for partitions for Parallels, which is a great thing for backups. Your VM gets backed up in TimeMachine or any other backup system you have like any other file or app would be. A Partition obviously takes a set amount of space immediately and you cannot get it back simply. Parallels makes it super easy, install the software. When you load up Parallels for the first time it will ask you if you want to install Windows 11, say yes and let it do its thing. All you need is your activation/reg key and you are done.

I may try VMware first - that it's free is attractive ofc and the no 3D support doesn't seem much of a restriction for my needs. Need to do more reading there tho.

 

[chrfr]

I may try VMware first - that it's free is attractive ofc and the no 3D support doesn't seem much of a restriction for my needs. Need to do more reading there tho.

Fusion 13.5 does have 3d support although it's likely not as comprehensive or fast as in Parallels, but it doesn't sound relevant to running basic apps.

 

[wonderings]

I may try VMware first - that it's free is attractive ofc and the no 3D support doesn't seem much of a restriction for my needs. Need to do more reading there tho.

What do you need a virtual Windows installation for? If it is for daily and regular use of Windows only specific apps Parallels is worth the price simply for coherence mode which basically lets your Windows app appear to be running natively on a Mac. Shrinks to the dock, drag and drop, etc.

 

[BenGoren]

There’s been a common theme in the responses: Why do you need (or want) Windows?

There are three particularly common scenarios.

If it’s for gaming, don’t bother trying to run Windows on the Mac. Just get a PC for the games and be done with it.

If it’s for work-related software … don’t use your personally-owned computer for work. If you do, your employer effectively owns your computer and can, in many circumstances, legally demand that you hand it over to them. A good middle-ground alternative is to use RDP to remotely connect to the company’s computer. This could even be, for example, the company’s laptop left at home and you connect to it while on the road; the full-screen experience could well be indistinguishable from using the company’s laptop directly. Even better would be if the company can host a VM for you in the company’s own cloud.

(If all your interaction with the company’s “stuff” is via client-server apps, such as Web browsers and email, you’re pretty safe. But, for example, using your own word processor to write something for your company … big danger. Actually copying company documents to your computer? Begging for tragedy. Some companies are more likely than others to be a55-holey about this, but why give any the ammunition?)

If it’s for legacy software, first be aware that much such software has specific and often bizarre requirements that are often incompatible with virtualization, running on different CPUs (especially of a different architecture), and so on. Your best bet is a dedicated computer for the task. You might consider something cheap, small, and maybe even headless (like Apple’s Mac mini) that you connect to via RDP.

Almost everything else, there’s native software for the Mac which is better suited to whatever it is you want to do. Sometimes, in the case of Adobe’s products, it’s superficially the exact same software. Most of the rest of the time, it’s something published by a different developer that performs the same fundamental task.

That leaves just a few rare edge cases for virtualization, and basically none for dual-booting on ARM (which, as others have noted, is not even rumored to ever be supported). The most realistic case would be some obscure Windows-only software that you only rarely need to run, or that you just need to run while you transition fully to the Mac.

If you’re not fully convinced, consider that there is basically no such thing as running Mac software on Windows, yet plenty of people migrate that direction as well — and it’s more likely that there would be Mac-only software which has no Windows equivalent than the other way around. So if people manage going that direction just fine, you’ll be just as fine going this direction.

Cheers,

b&

 

[ChrisA]

Only thing I can think of is pirated software, there is literally no reason to run them in Windows as licenses/CC is cross platform.

No need for partitions for Parallels, which is a great thing for backups. Your VM gets backed up in TimeMachine or any other backup system you have like any other file or app would be. A Partition obviously takes a set amount of space immediately and you cannot get it back simply. Parallels makes it super easy, install the software. When you load up Parallels for the first time it will ask you if you want to install Windows 11, say yes and let it do its thing. All you need is your activation/reg key and you are done.

All true but if the OP is running pirated Adobe software then it will not run on Windows on Parallels. Anf if he has a real license the Aobe software would run just fin on the Mac with no need for Windows.

The BEST way to run Windows is to buy a PC. They are dirt cheap.

 

[deconstruct60]

1. There MIGHT BE an Apple Bootcamp equivalent in the future. Or there might not be. Apple has no motivation to support Bootcamp, however Microsoft does. It seems like Microsoft wants Windows to be a service, charged per usage, and I don't think they would put too much effort on Bootcamping either and instead have people use their online VM system.

This premise a giant tautology. Microsoft is going to do "ALL THE WORK" filling in the blanks where Apple provides no documents , no support , and no clear tier-1 support for doing this ...... but ..... Microsoft doesn't want to put in tons of work.

You can't have both. Pick one. Either Microsoft dump crazy money into swimming 'upstream' against what Apple is doing or they don't. Not going to do both.

Name another hardware vendor that Microsoft fights upstream against to get Windows deployed to. crickets . Hardware folks go Microsoft , not the other way around, and say they want Windows validated on their hardware and want to comply with Miscroft basic requirements for Windows certification. That is how it works.

As Windows as a service in a cloud ... Apple's hardware makes even LESS sense.

The “Windows App” for Mac, iOS, and browsers is a fancy remote desktop, for now

Microsoft wants you in Windows, whether you’re on iPad, Android, or Chrome OS.

arstechnica.com

You just need a 'terminal' to login. That's it. Can do it from an iPad.



Over next couple of years Qualcomm , MediaTek , and Nvidia are all positioning themselves to be the "Windows on Arm" hardware platfrom vendor. If things get bad AMD will likely readily jump in too. Microsoft doesn't have a desperate 'need' for Apple's platform at all to go begging and crawling through glass shards to get a Windows on Arm platform deployed. That is just delusional. If anything, going forward they probably have 'too many' players to fill the role.

 

[tigerintank]

Lots of additional replies - thank you - I'll respond in one go here.

As my reqs are vm not demanding, I'll happily try VMware and maybe Parallels. If VMWare isn't practical I may ignore Parallels and just fall back to retaining this old rMBP and upgrading from W10 to 11 at some point before end of support for W10.

Not sure where the pirated Abobe interpretation came from 😁 That's not me - licensed Windows 10 Pro on the rMBP and any apps I might need too!