M3 Pro/Max have lower memory bandwidth

[leman]

One interesting detail that has been (for obvious reasons) omitted from the presentation. It seems that the M3 Pro and the lower-tier Max have fewer memory channels, most likely to offset the higher production costs of the chips themselves. M3 Pro now has 150GB/s and the base M3 Max has 300GB/s.

I was also very sure that we will see ECC RAM, but that didn’t happen either.

 

[CalMin]

Interesting observation. I wonder how that will affect overall real world performance? (Not just benchmarks).

 

[vanc]

The new GPU with ray tracing occupies more die area. It has to come from somewhere without blowing up the manufacturing cost.

 

[Boil]

The new GPU with ray tracing occupies more die area. It has to come from somewhere without blowing up the manufacturing cost.

UMA RAM is "on-package", not "on-die"...

 

[leman]

Interesting observation. I wonder how that will affect overall real world performance? (Not just benchmarks).

Probably not much.

UMA RAM is "on-package", not "on-die"...

But memory controllers still take space. And the new process is more expensive. I can imagine that reducing the bus helps with the costs.

 

[Boil]

But memory controllers still take space. And the new process is more expensive. I can imagine that reducing the bus helps with the costs.

I wonder if the change in memory channels has to do with the 12GB chips; less chips, less memory channels...?

 

[thebart]

Here we go again. There'll be endless debate over whether the cut down bandwidth matters, just like with the M2 SSD

And still only 8gb base RAM. And what's with 18gb RAM lol? Could they nickel and dime us any harder?

 

[VisceralRealist]

There's also one fewer GPU core with the Pro.

Interesting that M3 comes with a few "downgrades".

 

[macduke]

This is by far the most complicated spec scheme I've seen from Apple since I switched in 2008.

At least with Intel I could just pick what chip and RAM combo I wanted for the most part and not dealt with these weird fractional RAM values like 18GB and 36GB and 48GB. Not to mention 8 core and 11 core and 12 core and 14 core and 16 core options and then add in this confusing memory bandwidth mess. And starting with 8GB of RAM and 512GB SSD on a $1600 computer that is basically a 2024 model is borderline criminal. How does any professional operate with such restriction in this day and age?

 

[senttoschool]

This is by far the most complicated spec scheme I've seen from Apple since I switched in 2008.

At least with Intel I could just pick what chip and RAM combo I wanted for the most part and not dealt with these weird fractional RAM values like 18GB and 36GB and 48GB. Not to mention 8 core and 11 core and 12 core and 14 core and 16 core options and then add in this confusing memory bandwidth mess. And starting with 8GB of RAM and 512GB SSD on a $1600 computer that is basically a 2024 model is borderline criminal. How does any professional operate with such restriction in this day and age?

It definitely feels like the MBAs have stepped up to the podium at Apple. M1 felt like an engineer's dream. Simple. Elegant. But the MBAs have to have something to do.

 

[masotime]

It definitely feels like the MBAs have stepped up to the podium at Apple. M1 felt like an engineer's dream. Simple. Elegant. But the MBAs have to have something to do.

For a while I was confused, I thought MBA = MacBook Air

 

[jezbd1997]

a weird downgrade for sure… i was never going to upgrade so soon from my high spec 2021 model but certain things i’m still happy i bought first gen

 

[leman]

This is by far the most complicated spec scheme I've seen from Apple since I switched in 2008.

At least with Intel I could just pick what chip and RAM combo I wanted for the most part and not dealt with these weird fractional RAM values like 18GB and 36GB and 48GB. Not to mention 8 core and 11 core and 12 core and 14 core and 16 core options and then add in this confusing memory bandwidth mess. And starting with 8GB of RAM and 512GB SSD on a $1600 computer that is basically a 2024 model is borderline criminal. How does any professional operate with such restriction in this day and age?

Yeah, the configurations could have been simpler. It really seems like some been-counter in Apple senior management is optimizing the margins at all cost. I agree that this effectively devalues the great engineering behind these chips and leaves somewhat of a bad taste in one’s mouth.

 

[sevoneone]

these weird fractional RAM values like 18GB and 36GB and 48GB

It is because Apple is using 6GB and 12GB LPDDR5 chips in addition to 8GB and 16GB. 18GB = 3x 6GB, 36GB = 3x 12GB, and 48GB = 3x 16GB. Each channel is 50GB/s. M3 has 2 channels for 100GB/s, Pro has 3 for 150GB/s.

 

[Audentia]

I didn't think the M3's would come out soon and was worried about my M2 Max, but you know, I'm still happy with mine. Sure M3 is an improvement, but its not so transformational even on 3nm and there are these quirks like memory bandwidth you mention on the M2 Pro and (baby) Max. I am curious about actual game performance with these new GPUs though and the ray tracing. I thought we'd see a game announcement also today.

 

[Sn0wLe0pard]

M2 pro slower ssd? M3 Pro slower memory? What will happen to the M4 Pro? Will it return to M1? It's OK! The most important thing is to tell yourself that “I’m not a fool, this is still a very POWERFUL processor for everything in the world.” In a year we'll pay even more for something that's "still powerful".

 

[senttoschool]

For a while I was confused, I thought MBA = MacBook Air

Yea, MBAs = MacBook Airs (both 13" and 15").

 

[senttoschool]

M2 pro slower ssd? M3 Pro slower memory? What will happen to the M4 Pro? Will it return to M1? It's OK! The most important thing is to tell yourself that “I’m not a fool, this is still a very POWERFUL processor for everything in the world.” In a year we'll pay even more for something that's "still powerful".

I had high hopes for M3. I'm definitely disappointed with both the performance and the SKUs. It performs much worse than what I expected and it's more expensive than what I expected (for the SKU that I wanted).

I'll wait until M4. I feel quite good keeping my M1 Pro longer.

 

[Tdevilsg]

Apple is offering me 1055 for my M1 Pro 1tb MacBook pro which is not bad at all. But having to spend an extra grand for an m3 pro with only 500gb of hard drive space is just not worth it.

 

[streetfunk]

The lower memory bandwith concerns me.

I would say in real live are things dependend on the usecase.
Its one thing if a render or so takes a little longer, or if my audio starts to crackle.
Which just renders it unusable.

I was definitly able to run my M1mini into its paces a good amount BEVORE reaching my CPUs limit.
( to notes: my audio app is running single core explicitly)
To my understanding was i effectivly running into bandwith problems while doing very complex realtime-play sounddesign tasks. Its the only logical explanation i could figure out. And things were reproducable !
I was never running into same with my M2pro.
With more SC CPU at hand, could i run even more complex patches, creating higher bandwith loads than now.

So, the question is open to me, if we have any chance that apple was able to "compensate" on that one in one way or another ? or is it a safe bet to think, that this was just a biz decission vs. $, thinking that this (previous) power is not needed in most cases ?

 

[spinergy]

I'd get 1350 for my M1 Max 32GB 2TB lol

 

[leman]

I was definitly able to run my M1mini into its paces a good amount BEVORE reaching my CPUs limit.

Your experience might have to do with RAM bandwidth or it could be something else. Also note that M1 had significantly lower bandwidth than M1 Pro as it used slower RAM.

So, the question is open to me, if we have any chance that apple was able to "compensate" on that one in one way or another ? or is it a safe bet to think, that this was just a biz decission vs. $, thinking that this (previous) power is not needed in most cases ?

I doubt it. One can compensate lack of RAM bandwidth by cache, but it only works if you hit the same memory regions repeatedly. If you are streaming large portions of data from RAM (like in video editing or large machine learning models), RAM bandwidth is what you get.

However, I doubt one will notice much in real world usage. Of course, one will always be able to construct an artificial test case that highlights lower performance.

 

[Sn0wLe0pard]

Meh. I had high hopes for M3. I'm definitely disappointed with both the performance and the SKUs. It performs much worse than what I expected and it's more expensive than what I expected (for the SKU that I wanted).

I'll wait until M4. I feel quite good keeping my M1 Pro longer.

M4 will have its own “features”, for example, crazy throttling and overheating or something else. But then the fanboys will explain to you that this is the way it should be, that this is the norm, etc.

 

[ThomasJL]

It definitely feels like the MBAs have stepped up to the podium at Apple. M1 felt like an engineer's dream. Simple. Elegant. But the MBAs have to have something to do.

Tim Cook is an MBA, which explains why he is so mediocre, and why he makes mediocre decisions when it comes to product functionality.

Cook is such a mediocre MBA suit, that it wouldn't even surprise me if he did something like hiring McKinsey to make decisions about the M3 product line.

 

[Sn0wLe0pard]

So, the question is open to me, if we have any chance that apple was able to "compensate" on that one in one way or another ? or is it a safe bet to think, that this was just a biz decission vs. $, thinking that this (previous) power is not needed in most cases ?

They just don’t care if people buy everything anyway. People must bring money. Silently. Do not ask unnecessary questions about whether the new product is worse than the old one.