M3 PRO vs M3 MAX for programming

[Ladin007]

I have the option to buy these 2 configurations for the same money:

MB M3 PRO 12/18 36GB RAM 2TB SSD

MB M3 MAX 14/30 36GB RAM 1TB SSD

My work is in Office, dropbox and Paralles Windows 11, where I program the PLC. The most demanding work is in windows. I tried the compile test and PRO did it in 59 seconds and MAX in 49 seconds. Otherwise, I assume that the rest of the work is more than sufficient for PRO.

The only dilemma is the 10 seconds of compilation and above all the "durability" of the performance in the future. I have had a computer for 5-7 years.

On the other hand, I tested the PRO for 14 days and the fans did not spin even once. I would hate to always have ventilation and heat in the MAX.

Thank you very much in advance for the advice and opinions.

 

[leman]

If your main work environment is Windows I would suggest that you seriously consider a Windows computer. You might avoid some compatibility headaches, especially if you are working with specialized hardware and software (I am not sure what PLC is, presumably some sort of industrial programmable controller device).

If you are certain that you want to stick with a Mac, just buy whatever you personally prefer. I don't think that there are any objective pros and contras at this point. I'd get a cheaper option (which presumably would be a Pro with 1TB SSD).

 

[kschendel]

If 10 seconds per compile is going to be an issue for you, get the MAX. Otherwise I would definitely stop at the Pro, which will have plenty of power for whatever else you do.

(Was that test done compiling your software, or was it some kind of standardized benchmark? because the latter might not reflect how the former works.)

 

[MRMSFC]

If your main work environment is Windows I would suggest that you seriously consider a Windows computer. You might avoid some compatibility headaches, especially if you are working with specialized hardware and software (I am not sure what PLC is, presumably some sort of industrial programmable controller device).

If you are certain that you want to stick with a Mac, just buy whatever you personally prefer. I don't think that there are any objective pros and contras at this point. I'd get a cheaper option (which presumably would be a Pro with 1TB SSD).

Yeah, I think this is the optimal answer.

OP, I think you’re better off getting a Windows machine, and if you personally prefer using Mac, then getting a MacBook Air for personal use.

As much as I detest Windows, you have to use the right tool for the job.

 

[Ladin007]

If 10 seconds per compile is going to be an issue for you, get the MAX. Otherwise I would definitely stop at the Pro, which will have plenty of power for whatever else you do.

(Was that test done compiling your software, or was it some kind of standardized benchmark? because the latter might not reflect how the former works.)

The test was done while compiling my SW.

 

[theorist9]

I can understand why you are considering using Mac+Parallels instead of a native Windows machine, even though your most demanding work is done on a Windows–only program: You said quietness is a priorty. Plus even if it's your most demanding work, it may not be where you spend most of your time, and for the rest you might prefer the Mac environment.

I do agree with what Leman and others wrote which is that, if the PLC work is mission-critical, you might just want to get a Windows box since you are less likely to run into glitches.

Having said that, here are two things to consider:

1) When you use the PLC app in Parallels on a Mac, you are either using a native ARM-for-Windows program, or an x86 program run through Windows' x86 emulator. If it's the latter, it's worth checking out performance on an x86 machine.

2) If you decide to go with one of the Mac's, note that the Pro is limited to two external displays; not sure if that's an issue for you.

 

[Ladin007]

I can understand why you are considering using Mac+Parallels instead of a native Windows machine, even though your most demanding work is done on a Windows–only program: You said quietness is a priorty. Plus even if it's your most demanding work, it may not be where you spend most of your time, and for the rest you might prefer the Mac environment.

I do agree with what Leman and others wrote which is that, if the PLC work is mission-critical, you might just want to get a Windows box since you are less likely to run into glitches.

Having said that, here are two things to consider:

1) When you use the PLC app in Parallels on a Mac, you are either using a native ARM-for-Windows program, or an x86 program run through Windows' x86 emulator. If it's the latter, it's worth checking out performance on an x86 machine.

2) If you decide to go with one of the Mac's, note that the Pro is limited to two external displays; not sure if that's an issue for you.

Yes, I am aware that my development application is x86 and emulation is done on ARM. I don't want a Windows machine, I want to stay on a Macbook, where I've been since 2018 and I'm satisfied. I use a maximum of 1 external monitor.

 

[theorist9]

Yes, I am aware that my development application is x86 and emulation is done on ARM. I don't want a Windows machine, I want to stay on a Macbook, where I've been since 2018 and I'm satisfied. I use a maximum of 1 external monitor.

So, unless the disk size is important (which you can judge for yourself based on your own storage history), given that noise/heat is the issue about which you've expressed the strongest feeling.......

I would hate to always have ventilation and heat in the MAX.

...it seems it comes down to whether the Max would make more noise. I'm assuming you didn't hear noise when you tested the Max to do the benchmark, but that's still a tough one to assess without using it for an extended period of time on your own workload. I have read reports that the Pro is quieter for some workloads, and that is this the case for both sizes, but moreso for the 14".

 

[deconstruct60]

I have the option to buy these 2 configurations for the same money:

MB M3 PRO 12/18 36GB RAM 2TB SSD

MB M3 MAX 14/30 36GB RAM 1TB SSD

My work is in Office, dropbox and Paralles Windows 11, where I program the PLC. The most demanding work is in windows. I tried the compile test and PRO did it in 59 seconds and MAX in 49 seconds. Otherwise, I assume that the rest of the work is more than sufficient for PRO.

Are you keeping the Windows virtual storage images on the internal drive , how big are they now , and how likely big will they get in 3-4 years? Long term if you are going to need more space the extra 1TB has utility. Also going to put a bit less wear on a SSD drive that you are not filling up to the 'brim'.

10 second of 'think' time before you hit recompile/build often can save more time in the long term than 'mindless' hunting for a bug fix ( 'let me change this line and maybe that will work'. ) . If the edit-compile-debug cycle is 2-10 minutes long then, saving 10 seconds doesn't really substantively do much to shorten the cycle.

On the other hand, I tested the PRO for 14 days and the fans did not spin even once. I would hate to always have ventilation and heat in the MAX.

There is a far bigger thermal generation gap between the Max and Pro on GPU cores and subsystems than there is between CPU cores. If compiling is the major "grunt" task then there is no huge gap. ( essentially same base reasons the gap on compile times isn't substantively very large. If Max has a huge increased amount of CPU core then maybe your compile time gap would go larger if most of the process can be parallelized. )

 

[ChrisA]

I have the option to buy these 2 configurations for the same money:

MB M3 PRO 12/18 36GB RAM 2TB SSD

MB M3 MAX 14/30 36GB RAM 1TB SSD

You can get the Max for the same price as the Pro? Get the Max. If you need more storage then you can always an external or some kind of networked or cloud stoarge.

It may seem like 12 vs 14 CPU Cores is a small thing but some of them (6?) are low-performance cores. It is the number of high-performance cores that matters.

BTW I am surprised your Windows-only PLC software even runs on Windows/ARM.

 

[theorist9]

You can get the Max for the same price as the Pro? Get the Max. If you need more storage then you can always an external or some kind of networked or cloud stoarge.

You probably missed that the Max is 1 TB and the Pro is 2 TB. If you check Apple's website, you'll see the $400 upcharge to go from base Pro to base Max is the same as that to go from 1 TB to 2 TB, so the two are priced the same.

It may seem like 12 vs 14 CPU Cores is a small thing but some of them (6?) are low-performance cores. It is the number of high-performance cores that matters.

Yeah, it's 6 vs.10 perf cores for the 12-core Pro vs. 14-core Max. But note that he already has bottom-line performance figures for the difference with his own workload, which is more meaningful than core counts: 49 s vs. 59 s, indicating the Max is only ≈20% faster (even though it has 67% more perf. cores). [Though yes, I suppose it's possible he could switch to different software with more core-scalable performance, or that uses GPU hardware acceleration, somewhere down the line, since he wants to keep the machine for 5-7 years—and both of those would benefit from the Max.]

Given that he's using a VM, I suspect if he could spend $$ to get a Pro with more RAM instead of larger storage, that would be more useful to him. Unfortunately, the M3 Pro tops out at 36 GB, so getting more memory is very expensive b/c he has to upgrade to a Max first: Even after downsizing to a 1 TB drive, it would be +$500 to get to 48 GB, and +$700 for 64 GB.

 

[Spidder]

1. If both mashines are 16 inch, then getting the Max wont be a problem noise wise. Only the 14 inch chassis struggles with the tdp of the Max chips under sustained(!) heavy load. Quick bursts like your 1min compile wont be a problem for either chassis.

2. 1TB more internal storage in exchange for less processing and compute power is not a smart investment since external ssds are plenty fast and dirt cheap.

Conclusion: Get the Max

 

[Ladin007]

1. If both mashines are 16 inch, then getting the Max wont be a problem noise wise. Only the 14 inch chassis struggles with the tdp of the Max chips under sustained(!) heavy load. Quick bursts like your 1min compile wont be a problem for either chassis.

2. 1TB more internal storage in exchange for less processing and compute power is not a smart investment since external ssds are plenty fast and dirt cheap.

Conclusion: Get the Max

In both cases, it will be 14 inch machines. That's why I'm a little worried about overheating and fans.

 

[Spidder]

If you would tolerate some barely audible to low fan noise, then the Max is clearly the better/more economical choice. If not, then you've already made the decision on not wanting more performance but more creature comfort in the form of a silence. And thats ok 👍

 

[bobmans]

For CPU-intensive tasks I'd go for the MAx due to the Pro being 6E/6P cores and the max being 4E/10-12 cores.
Now that I think about it, Apple should make a CPU-focussed chip, idc about all those extra GPU cores on the Max, I just want CPU performance.

In your case though, I'd go for a windows machine. Sounds like a pain to run Windows in a VM.

 

[Timpetus]

I'd lean towards the Max because you said you plan to keep it a long time. It'll be able to keep up for longer and the compromise of less internal storage is easier to overcome without having to sell it and buy a new machine like you'd have to do for more RAM or a faster SoC.

 

[jdb8167]

I am not sure what PLC is, presumably some sort of industrial programmable controller device

Probably a Programmable Logic Controller. When I worked at Modicon, PLCs were used to run Ladder Logic though I have no idea if that is still a thing.

 

[Ladin007]

Probably a Programmable Logic Controller. When I worked at Modicon, PLCs were used to run Ladder Logic though I have no idea if that is still a thing.

Yes, i develop ladder logic for Modicon too…..Micro612, Momentum… 😉👋

 

[teh_hunterer]

Faced with this exact choice I went for the Pro with 2TB (16").

This is my personal machine, coming from a 14" M1 Pro base model which was work provided. The thing I loved most about that computer was how it was so thermally balanced - the fans never came on, and even if they did they were virtually inaudible.

I wasn't willing to give that up. Given the M3 Pro is faster than an M2 Max in the CPU department I think it's plenty fast enough. Give me as much performance as possible while staying that efficient and cool and quiet. And that's the M3 Pro.