Mac Mini longevity

[arkmannj]

Hello,
I’m trying to decide if I should get a mac mini or another SFF Computer.
I love the MM (or I wouldn’t be asking this question)

I love the MM form factor, power and efficiency, ports, etc. But my two concerns are.

1) with soldered storage, what do we think the lifespan of that storage is likely to be? In the event that it goes faulty can the MM be booted from external storage? Firmly uses I’m not worried if external would be a little slower.

2) When Apple EOL’s the model and no longer provides OS updates, will I be able to boot/use another OS like Linux? I still have a MM 2011 because it can still run Linux. I’d love if I could get a new MM and get 12+ years out of it. But I’m wondering if that’s reasonable.

 

[yellowhelicopter]

1) 10+ years
2) Yes. And you also can install officially unsupported versions of macOS.

 

[mmkerc]

A new Mac (mini or other) should easily last 10-15 years. The biggest "threat" to that is if a new technology emerges that is not built into the machine. Case in point, how is AI going to affect computer use, or will internet speeds make a step change leap in performance.

I do not believe either of the two issue you mention will drive a shorter life span. I would however get a minimum of 16gb ram, or 32 if you can swing it.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP asks
" with soldered storage, what do we think the lifespan of that storage is likely to be? "

With Macs, this question is now "academic" -- because they ALL have "soldered storage".

EXCEPTIONS:
The Mac Studio's SSD storage seems to be on some kind of proprietary "card" (I believe there are 2 "slots" for them inside). Seems to me there was a thread on here by a user who figured out a way to upgrade by adding another card -- but it wasn't easy.

I believe the new M-series Mac Pro may also have upgradeable storage, can you afford one of those?

"When Apple EOL’s the model and no longer provides OS updates, will I be able to boot/use another OS like Linux?"

I don't know much about linux, but it may be difficult to get running on an m-series Mac (some have already done this).

The computer doesn't stop running because Apple no longer provides software updates. I'm typing this reply on a 2018 Mac Mini, and still using the original "Mojave" OS that came with it. There are no more "updates" for Mojave. It still runs ok for me...

 

[Boyd01]

with soldered storage, what do we think the lifespan of that storage is likely to be? In the event that it goes faulty can the MM be booted from external storage?

If the internal SSD fails, I believe the Mini is essentially "bricked" and cannot be booted from an external disk. This was a new feature that was introduced with the first Apple Silicon Mini. All of the older Intel Mini's can boot from external disks. The 2018 Intel Mini is the first to have a soldered internal SSD, but it can still boot externally if it fails (provided that you have set preferences to allow external booting).

As for longevity, sorry, no experience with Apple Silicon. I'm still a happy user of a 2018 Mini which I use heavily with a Windows 10 VM and professional GIS software (for making maps). Somewhat mixed experiences with previous Minis. Still using my 2012 quad mini as a file server, no problems. Also still using a 2014 base Mini as a media server booting from an external SSD, no problems there either.

But I have another 2012 and 2014 Mini that each had failing internal hard disks that caused problems, even though I wasn't booting from them.

 

[yellowhelicopter]

Also, if you're uneasy about SSD longevity you always may install macOS on external SSD, or at least move Home and Application folders there.

 

[drrich2]

I haven't done this, and it looks a bit involved, but MacWorld has an article that may be helpful. Thanks for asking the question; I, too, would like to know if failed internal storage inherently ended a Mac's life.

How to start up your M1 or M2 Mac from an external drive​

 

[Boyd01]

I, too, would like to know if failed internal storage inherently ended a Mac's life.

Here's one article from 2021, I'm sure there are others, it was discussed frequently following the release of the original M1 Macs.

"The M1 boot process requires a working SSD to boot macOS. The SSD contains a Signed System Volume that is cryptographically sealed by Apple. No seal, no bootable System. So if the internal drive on your M1 Mac fails completely, even an external bootable drive won't boot. Yep, your Mac is bricked."

How bad is the M1 Mac's SSD failure problem?

If your M1 Mac's SSD fails, you can't boot off an external drive, a change from past decades. Here's the problem and strategies to manage the risk.

www.zdnet.com

 

[arkmannj]

Thank you everyone!
Some really good info here, and I appreciate all the thoughts & feedback.

I’m thinking for my purposes of this specific use-case we might be better served with another SFF machine.

I’ll still likely get one later for some personal computing. But this one really would mostly be for light server duties. If I could boot from an external drive when the internal storage goes bad or replace the internal storage then I’d go with a MM. but for this use case it’s a deal breaker to me.

These are fantastic machines and I know we get great performance and power efficiency but I’d love it if they were easier to either replace/repair components. The tradeoffs of modern t technology I guess.

 

[Boyd01]

this one really would mostly be for light server duties. If I could boot from an external drive when the internal storage goes bad or replace the internal storage then I’d go with a MM.

An Intel Mini might fit your needs, I use a 2012 as a file server and a 2014 as a media server. Even the base models are more than adequate for these and you can get used ones with a limited warranty for as little as $120 from MacSales (OWC). The 2012 supports up to Catalina and the 2014 will run Monterey. There's also the 2018 Mini which supports Sonoma and you can still get them at the Apple refurb store but they're more expensive.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP wrote:
"If I could boot from an external drive when the internal storage goes bad or replace the internal storage then I’d go with a MM. but for this use case it’s a deal breaker to me."

You realize that ALL new Macs are like this, right...?

With the m-series CPU, if the internal drive fails, the Mac is UN-bootable (even from a working and bootable external drive).

The Studio seems to have a replaceable internal SSD "on a card". I'm thinking an Apple dealer could replace the card (only) and revive the Studio to life.
Perhaps the Mac Pro is the same (don't know).

But with all the other Macs, the SSD is non-removable, so if it fails, looks like the entire motherboard will need to be replaced.

If you demand "external bootability" in the event of a failed internal drive, then get an Intel-based Mac or a PC...

 

[ChrisA]

Hello,
I’m trying to decide if I should get a mac mini or another SFF Computer.
I love the MM (or I wouldn’t be asking this question)

I love the MM form factor, power and efficiency, ports, etc. But my two concerns are.

1) with soldered storage, what do we think the lifespan of that storage is likely to be? In the event that it goes faulty can the MM be booted from external storage? Firmly uses I’m not worried if external would be a little slower.

2) When Apple EOL’s the model and no longer provides OS updates, will I be able to boot/use another OS like Linux? I still have a MM 2011 because it can still run Linux. I’d love if I could get a new MM and get 12+ years out of it. But I’m wondering if that’s reasonable.

By the time the internal SSD fails in 10 or 15 years, the M2 mini will be selling on the used market for maybe $80 or so. If for some reason you really liked the old 2023 vintage computer you could just buy a couple more of them.

Also while soldered-down storage prevents end users from replacing the storage, a skilled technician can replace the chips using a hot air rework station. It is not hard to do but would replacement chips be available? Would it be worth paying to have an $80 used computer repaired?

I still have a 2011 model Macbook Pro. It runs well even if Apple does not update the OS.

 

[arkmannj]

Thought I’d share this article.
I have not tried it but it claims to be steps for making an external bootable drive. Still not sure if the MM would be bricked if the internal storage went bad but it is a start.

How to start up your M1 or M2 Mac from an external drive

Need to boot your M-series Mac with an external drive? It's not as easy as it used to be, as it likely requires you purchase new hardware.

www.macworld.com

I guess I’m so interested in this topic because through the years My mac’s have generally performed awesome (I still have a functioning powerbook and Quicksilver Power Mac even!) but the one thing I’ve needed to do on many of them is either replace the storage or use external storage to keep the machine running well.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP:

Re your post 13 above...

It IS possible to boot an m-series Mac from an external drive.
I have a 2021 MacBook Pro (m1pro) and can boot it from an external USB3.1 gen2 drive.
(the external drive is a cloned backup created with SuperDuper)

HOWEVER...
This will work only if the Mac still has a working, bootable, internal drive.

IF the internal drive fails, you won't be able to boot from an external drive, either.

 

[arkmannj]

An Intel Mini might fit your needs, I use a 2012 as a file server and a 2014 as a media server. Even the base models are more than adequate for these and you can get used ones with a limited warranty for as little as $120 from MacSales (OWC). The 2012 supports up to Catalina and the 2014 will run Monterey. There's also the 2018 Mini which supports Sonoma and you can still get them at the Apple refurb store but they're more expensive.

Thanks! actually what instigated this hunt was I gave away my 2012 (Server model) Mac Mini to a friend in a bind. Up to that point It was dutifully running plex, Home Assistant, Home bridge, some file server stuff and occasionally a lightweight VM or containers. But over the years I did need to replace the internal drives (it had 2). It has been running Ubuntu the last couple years, but worked great and I could occasionally hook up an external drive to boot other OS’s, do testing on, etc,

 

[arkmannj]

OP:

Re your post 13 above...

It IS possible to boot an m-series Mac from an external drive.
I have a 2021 MacBook Pro (m1pro) and can boot it from an external USB3.1 gen2 drive.
(the external drive is a cloned backup created with SuperDuper)

HOWEVER...
This will work only if the Mac still has a working, bootable, internal drive.

IF the internal drive fails, you won't be able to boot from an external drive, either.

Thank you for the clarification.
That’s a bit of a bummer but good to know.

 

[yellowhelicopter]

Thought I’d share this article.
I have not tried it but it claims to be steps for making an external bootable drive.

It's easy and straightforward, you even don't need any guide for that. I had been using external bootable drive for more than a year after I bought MM M1 because of the same consideration that bothers you now... until I realised that it was not worth it, I moved to the internal drive just yesterday while installing Sonoma.

The problem is that the boot time was like 2+ minutes in my case with my usb-c 3.1 gen 2 10Gbit/s SSD and also programs were opening quite slowly for the first time after boot up, and I had to switch it to USB-A port each time I wanted to update macOS (or it wouldn't update somehow), and even though all worked fine otherwise those issues (especially slow booting) kept to irritate me.

Now on internal drive it boots with lightning speed in comparison. I just moved games and downloads and parallels VM to external to save space on internal. It's also possible to move the whole home folder to external (and it's a very easy and official way) but once again it would slow down the boot time as I witnessed when I tried it a year ago.

 

[Fishrrman]

yellowheli posted:
"The problem is that the boot time was like 2+ minutes
...
Now on internal drive it boots with lightning speed in comparison"

Times have changed.

As your experience shows, it no longer makes sense to boot an m-series Mac from an external drive.

There ONCE WAS a time when I believed differently about this, back in the Intel days. I booted and ran a 2012 Mini for SIX YEARS from an external USB3 SSD. In fact, the 2012 is now on "the back table", and it STILL boots from an external SSD (because it came from the factory with a platter-based internal drive and I didn't feel like changing it).

But when I got my 2018 Mini (with an internal SSD), it was much faster to boot and run from the internal factory-installed drive.

I would still suggest booting/running from an external SSD for folks with older Intel iMacs who may not want to pry open the case to install an internal SSD.

But the new m-series Macs with their fast internal SSDs have made external booting -- at least "for purposes of extra speed" -- obsolete.

 

[arkmannj]

I generally agree, and for a machine I would be working on daily. Booting, app loading times, etc. would be a paramount concern. I’d just use the internal storage and have an external TB drive for documents, projects, photos, etc. (or I’d keep them on a NAS)

In the use-case I’m thinking of right now a longer boot time wouldn’t be that big of a deal. It will be shoved in a rack and only occasionally rebooted when updates, etc. require it. It wouldn’t typically be running much in the way of front end apps.

This is a great discussion. Regardless of specific use cases it is all helpful information and I hope other people searching for similar answers can find it all useful too. Again, thanks everyone for taking time to share thoughts, experiences, and information. It is all useful.