Mac Mini M4 or Mac Studio M2 for Designer

[zterm]

I need a new Mac, mainly for using Adobe Creative Suite, with occasional use of Blender, Rhino, and Cinema 4D (for stills only, not animation).

The option I was considering is a Mac Studio M2 Max with a 12-core CPU, 30-core GPU, and 16-core Neural Engine, along with 32GB of RAM and a 2TB hard drive, priced at €3,118.85 (including tax). I could go for 64GB.

Comparatively, the Mac Mini M2 Pro with a 12-core CPU, 19-core GPU, and 16-core Neural Engine, also with 32GB of RAM and a 2TB hard drive, is priced at €3,178.85, slightly more expensive than the MacStudio. Isn’t the MacMini M2 a bit overpriced?

I know the Mac Mini M4 will be released in a couple of weeks, with prices expected to be similar to the current Mac Mini M2.

In any case, considering my intended use, which option would you recommend? Current Mac Studio or wait for Mac Mini M4?

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Gloor]

Wait for M4 Mini and then come back. These kind of threads are pointless as we don't know whats going to be on the table realistically

 

[definitive]

it's a bit too early to tell, because we don't know how the m4 pro will perform in the mini vs the current m2 max, and what kind of options it will have.

i'm in the same exact boat, and did some research a while back to compare the m2 pro and m2 max. what it comes down to between these two chips is the use case. for photoshop/indesign/illustrator, the two systems would perform very similarly. for video editing, the studio system provided a bit faster and smoother experience.

for me, the specs i need are 32gb ram, 1tb ssd, and a 12 core cpu. both systems offer the same setup for the same exact price. i prefer a quieter system, so i'll most likely be going with the m4 pro mini. i don't care much for the 10gbit ethernet or the faster gpu, because it would add to extra heat and noise. i'll be fine as long as i can connect a couple of screens to the system.

the new studio is probably at least half a year to a year away, unless they announce it at the same time as the mini, which i doubt they will.

 

[frou]

M2 Macs are already 3 macOS releases into their support lifespan. Apple doesn't support Macs forever so it's worth keeping in mind if you intend to use the machine for a long time.

 

[HDFan]

M2 Macs are already 3 macOS releases into their support lifespan.

It's not the OS aging that you need to look as much as the hardware release date. Since the M2 Studio has only been out a bit over a year it likely will be 4 years before support issues appear.

 

[theluggage]

M2 Macs are already 3 macOS releases into their support lifespan. Apple doesn't support Macs forever so it's worth keeping in mind if you intend to use the machine for a long time.

Well the support clock doesn't really start ticking until Apple stop selling the model. But then, rumours are that they'll replace the Studio sometime next year.

We've no clues as to what the OS support lifetime for Apple Silicon macs will be - but the cut-off with Intel Macs seems to be 5 years for new OS versions, plus 2-3 years of updates for the last compatible version - which ties in with their "vintage" and "obsolete" hardware categories which in turn tie into consumer regulations in some jurisdictions - it's not clear that those would apply directly to software, but it's hard for Apple to service a computer if they don't have a supported (not necessarily the latest) OS to re-install.

Unless Apple plan to play "forced obsolescence" games (not impossible) we might see longer support with Apple Silicon since, with most of the guts implemented on an Apple SoC, far fewer variants of that across the range, no third-party GPUs etc. Apple should have fewer permutations of legacy hardware to keep supporting.

Comparatively, the Mac Mini M2 Pro with a 12-core CPU, 19-core GPU, and 16-core Neural Engine, also with 32GB of RAM and a 2TB hard drive, is priced at €3,178.85, slightly more expensive than the MacStudio. Isn’t the MacMini M2 a bit overpriced?

Personally - I don't find it very surprising that if you need to "max out" a M2 Pro Mini, the M2 Max Studio starts looking like a better deal. If you need the extra RAM or the better CPU/GPU on the Mini rthen fine, but if you need both I'd start looking at the Studio. Apart from the front ports, extra display support and larger GPU I prefer some aspects of the Studio design - looking at the service manual that Apple now offers, it looks more repairable in that many of the sockets are mounted on separate boards and the SSD modules are at least replaceable should they fail (even if Apple doesn't offer upgrades).

Still - I think in this case "wait for the M4 if possible" is the best advice. I suspect a M4 Pro will be a serious challenge to a M2 Max - and also have a hunch that any "M4 Max" Studio will see a price bump and a significant bump in performance c.f. the M2 Max (already slightly true of the M3 Max in the MBP).

i don't care much for the 10gbit ethernet or the faster gpu, because it would add to extra heat and noise.

What is the M2 Pro Mini like under load?

It's true that my M1 Max Studio isn't 100% silent at idle, but its still very quiet and most likely under your "noise floor" and almost never gets any louder. (I think I've encountered one program that spins up the fans a bit when it crashes due to a bug) - C.f. my old iMac - which was silent at idle but got quite noisy under load.

 

[aestival]

the cut-off with Intel Macs seems to be 5 years for new OS versions, plus 2-3 years of updates for the last compatible version

I'm writing this on a 2018 MacBook Pro running MacOS 14.7, and the only reason I'm not running 15.0.1 is that I'm expecting to upgrade to an M4 Mini shortly (or possibly an M4 Studio next year). I fully expect that my laptop will be supported for new versions through the entirety of 15.0, and possibly also 15.1. I'm already at 6 years, with no obvious end in sight.

 

[theluggage]

I'm writing this on a 2018 MacBook Pro running MacOS 14.7, and the only reason I'm not running 15.0.1 is that I'm expecting to upgrade to an M4 Mini shortly (or possibly an M4 Studio next year).

So you got new OS releases for a hair's breadth over 5 years after that model was discontinued in Mac 2019.

Not saying that the 5 years for new OS versions is more than am approximate guideline. 6-7 years of a supported MacOS version is probably more reliable.

MacOS 15 came out only barely over 5 years after the 2018 MBP was discontinued in May 2019, do it got support (but I wouldn't count on it getting MacOS 16). On the other hand, the 2018 MacBook Air was discontinued in July 2019 and did get cut from MacOS 15, and the 2019 MacBook Air only got 4 years of new OSs.

I guess it depends a bit on whether a model had any problematic components/3rd party drivers that were a pain to support, and maybe about how many were actually sold and/or still in circulation. (That 2019 MBA was on sale for less than a year).

 

[Melbourne Park]

As said, wait until the Mini announcement.

The option I was considering is a Mac Studio M2 Max with a 12-core CPU, 30-core GPU, and 16-core Neural Engine, along with 32GB of RAM and a 2TB hard drive, priced at €3,118.85

I think a refurb can be returned in 14 days - you would need to check that.

Refurbished Mac - MacBook Pro - Mac Studio

Save up to 15% on a refurbished Mac. Tested and certified by Apple including a 1-year warranty. Free delivery and returns.

www.apple.com

Firstly there is the same Studio you are looking at with only a 512 GB drive, but everthing else is the same. Its priced at €1,779 . So you are paying 1,340 for 1.5 TB.

Add the drive itself. There are threads on running externals off Studios at this site. Check 'em out, read the thread. You've got a keyboard, why not add an external drive?

Thunderbolt (beware of sellers who indicate their drives are thunderbolt while in actual fact they are just type C inlet ports which can connect to Thunderbolt but are much slower USB 3.2 etc). Thunderbolt 3 are claimed to be 3000 transfer Mbs but I think relay on around 2,000 for continual work. Highpoint told me their external PCI case for their RAID card is bottlenecked to a practical 2,000 MB/S due to the thunderbolt bottleneck. Testing shows higher speeds but Highpoint say its really around 2,000 B=MB/s in practice.

You can buy a fast external T-3 drive for much less than that differential.

Prices - shop around, but a quick look:

An external T-3 case for a ssd nvme drive costs 109 pounds from Amazon UK plus delivery of 11 pounds.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Acasis-Enc...0dctFZ6aFQGqq-qM6j7X3CiL-uVNQ_Ubwwr_oqki758su

2TB Samsung 990 pro drive for inside the case is 165 pounds. Or two.

There are 4 TB internal drives for 240 pounds. Check that they will support Mac OS.

A 4TB external T3/4 drives vary a lot, but a LaCie weatherproof and shock proof and cables etc 4TB Thunderbolt version costs 670 pounds UK suppplied. Curiously that 670 pounds is exactly half the price of the cost of Apples extra 1.5 TB.

Local 2 TB thunderbolt externals are around $400 pounds.

Buying from B&H in the USA, a 4TB Pro Sandisk Thunderbolt drive is 335 pounds I think, plus 25 pounds shipping to the UK, I guess add your tax (15%?) which would be 360 *1.15 = 414 pounds for 4 TB external drive.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?q=thundebolt%20drives&sts=ma

UK OWC external T-3/4 2 TB is 400 pounds https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/gaming/storage-drives-external/ssd-external#t76.f55=Thunderbolt%203

https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/FQH73B/A/Refurbished-Mac-Studio-Apple-M2-Max-Chip-with-12‑Core-CPU-and-30‑Core-GPU?fnode=3ef80644127018cc57246a4053cdd89b6d17e374ae3ce1c43e65c0c610d2b12af927858c815dd06268e8665ddfd632cbfbd93bf59a332311da2dc565e01bee7dc9faae07eaa23eee208b3a050b4afc15

UK Refurb store has:
Refurbished Mac Studio Apple M2 Ultra Chip with 24‑Core CPU and 60‑Core GPU
Now£3,569.00
Was£4,199.00
64GB Memory
1TB Storage

While 2Tb is worthwhile, the extra RAM will save virtualising. Add an external as well of course.

And then - consider a notebook. Maybe one is easier to sell later? Loss in a sale would be a deduction from your income as well I presume.
Maybe when the new replacements come there will be M3 refurbs too? Is a notebook more useful for you?

Refurbished 14-inch MacBook Pro Apple M2 Max Chip with 12‑Core CPU and 38‑Core GPU - Space Grey £3,449.00
14.2-inch (diagonal) Liquid Retina XDR display;1 3024x1964 native resolution at 254 pixels per inch
64GB unified memory
2TB SSD2
This is really the same price as the Studio, but it has a battery, screen and keyboard. it doesn't cool itself as well though.

For the same price you can get a 96 GB Ram notebook M2 max with a 1 TB drive.

 

[zterm]

Wow! That’s a lot of information to absorb! Thanks so much!

My main goal is to buy a machine that will last me several years. While I do have 2018 and 2015 MacBook Pros running Monterey, most of my work is still done on a 2010 MacPro with Mojave. I don't actually need more processing power, as CC 2020 and C4D 2019 work fine for me, but I'm starting to have issues with software obsolescence. The biggest problem is that I can no longer use Slack, either via the app or the web, and WhatsApp is set to stop working soon as well.

I think any option with enough memory and storage will do the job, but the newest model will probably have longer support from Apple.

Totally unrelated, but besides the cost of the computer my biggest concern right now is the cost of software, which has become prohibitive for independent designers due to subscription models. In the past, an Adobe upgrade would last for years, and plugins were affordable and compatible across multiple versions. Now, I’m forced to renew software every year, even though I don’t need the new features, and I’ve had to give up many tools that have shifted from perpetual licenses to subscription-based models.

Will wait until the new Mini is released.

Again, thanks.

 

[theluggage]

Thunderbolt (beware of sellers who indicate their drives are thunderbolt while in actual fact they are just type C inlet ports which can connect to Thunderbolt but are much slower USB 3.2 etc).

Agree with what you've said...

...but in many cases you really won't need all of that Thunderbolt speed unless you're into large super-high-quality video production projects. Storage reviews tend to obsess about sustained transfer speeds which are rarely hit in normal use - even modern USB3.1g2 SSDs are lightning fast compared to the spinning rust and SATA SSDs we were using not so many years ago. OP is successfully using a 2010 Mac for heavy lifting, so any half-decent USB 3 drive is likely to be OK.

You'll still get a lot of benefit from having the super-fast 512GB SSD in the Mac as your system drive - holding all the continually accessed software, OS files, temporary files, swap files etc. Depending on your workflow, you might hardly notice the difference if your documents and projects are on network-attached mechanical hard drives... You certainly don't want to start using that expensive internal storage for archiving stuff you're not actively working on.

With the rates Apple charge for internal storage I'd be very careful not to over-specify the internal storage and not to over-spend on getting the fastest possible external devices. 512GB is maybe a bit tight if you're using pro software (and remember, you never want an SSD - esp. your system disc - to get filled to capacity) but might be workable if you're disciplined about only using it for system & apps. Personally I'd just shell out the $200 Apple Tax for 1TB internal - which still goes a long way for anything short of "master quality" video.

Also bear in mind that the data on the internal drive is toast as soon as the computer fails, whereas externals can be moved to another system - yes, you have backups, but unless you're scrupulous about that, plan A with backups should be not to need to use them...

The biggest problem is that I can no longer use Slack, either via the app or the web, and WhatsApp is set to stop working soon as well.

Would getting a MacBook Air or an iPad just for "communications" be viable? Your Mac Pro should keep doing what it does indefinitely (and is far more repairable than anything Apple make now) - the only real problem/risk is using Internet-connected Apps on it. You could enable file sharing on the Mac Pro (or get a NAS) which would be sitting relatively safely behind your home firewall. The downside is that you'd need to switch computers (or use remote desktop) to deal with WhatsApp/Slack. The upside is that you wouldn't be distracted by WhatsApp/Slack when you were using your Mac Pro...

Now, I’m forced to renew software every year, even though I don’t need the new features, and I’ve had to give up many tools that have shifted from perpetual licenses to subscription-based models.

No solution to that except to migrate away from Adobe and other overpriced subscription services. Of course, that's sometime easier said than done (which is how Adobe gets away with it).

I mean, I could point out that the Affinity suite is vastly better value than Adobe CS for non-video stuff but I guess that if you could easily switch to something like that you already would have done...

 

[Melbourne Park]

Wow! That’s a lot of information to absorb! Thanks so much!

My main goal is to buy a machine that will last me several years. While I do have 2018 and 2015 MacBook Pros running Monterey, most of my work is still done on a 2010 MacPro with Mojave. I don't actually need more processing power, as CC 2020 and C4D 2019 work fine for me, but I'm starting to have issues with software obsolescence. The biggest problem is that I can no longer use Slack, either via the app or the web, and WhatsApp is set to stop working soon as well.

If that is a Mac Pro 5,1, you can run Monterey without issues on it, using Opencore. There are threads and youtube videos on doing so. It will give you more time. Some people run later software too, some say Sonoma is not issue.

 

[Melbourne Park]

Will wait until the new Mini is released.

Again, thanks.

It's annoying that Apple don't announce when they will supersede their M processor computers. I see no reason why it would be just as easy for Apple to support an M1 as an M4 many years down the track. But looking at history, Apple does stop support based on it seems to me, the age of the machine.

I looked at Curry's too, and they have new studios with 1TB drives and 64 GB RAM for not much more than your budget. Its worth shopping around ...

 

[ILoveCalvinCool]

I have an M2 Pro Mini w/ 32GB and need an upgrade, but I'm definitely waiting for the M4 Mini. A Studio would be a step backward at this point. The only other option for me would be waiting for the M4 Studio next year, but I don't really have time to wait.

 

[Melbourne Park]

I have an M2 Pro Mini w/ 32GB and need an upgrade, but I'm definitely waiting for the M4 Mini. A Studio would be a step backward at this point. The only other option for me would be waiting for the M4 Studio next year, but I don't really have time to wait.

It wouldn't be a step backward as the Studio is still quicker no matter what! And they often come discounted with 64 GB RAM. I wonder what the maximum RAM the M4 Studio will provide? It may only go up to at a guess, 36 GB or something strange, similar to the MacBook Ram upgrade options which are not multiples of 8 GB.