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Mac OS 10.0 Can Still Browse the Net

Mr. Dee

Mr. Dee

macrumors 603
Original poster
Dec 4, 2003
5,990
12,840
Jamaica
Some what....I have a CAT5 cable running from somewhere into my room. I wasn't sure if it was working or not, but I decided to give it a try on my PowerBook G3 Wallstreet running Mac OS 10.0.3 (Cheetah). The chances of this working was very slim I thought with my concerns mainly, is the cable even working; could I get it talk to my modern Mac on High Sierra? Getting on the Internet would have been icing on the cake.

Success! Ethernet cable does work. But, it took a tiny bit of configuration, such as enabling networking in System Preferences. Automatically got issued a dynamic IP and that was it.

My first attempt was to see if I could maybe get it to connect to my MacBook Pro on 10.13, but it was not meant to be. Both systems knew of each others existence, but just could not really see each other. 10.13 complained the server software on 10.0.3 is outdated.

So, I decided to go on the Internet just for kicks. Initially I pinged Google, so, I knew it could connect to the Internet. Internet Explorer 5.1 Preview Release opened up blank, then I typed in www.google.com and look at that, it actually worked!

IMG_5945.JPG


IMG_5948.JPG

But it was probably too soon to celebrate. When I tried to search for old websites, it just crashed.

IMG_5949.JPG



Anyway, this was a fun Friday experiment to kill some time while I prepped to start working from home for the first time. What does this tell us though is that, these early versions of OS X are now officially ancestor software. Just as NextStep itself is an ancestor to OS X. I wonder how much of the original NextStep code is still in say 'Big Sur'? Keep in mind, Mac OS 10.0 is now older than NextStep was in 2001.

My next time killer are some fun tests with even more recent releases, which is likely to not work given the experience with High Sierra.

If you have any tips for actually getting networking to 'work', leave them in the comments.
 

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Always fun to tinker with stuff and see what will work! It's impressive that we can still get online with almost 20 year old software and even older hardware.

Crazy that OS X came out almost 20 years ago and the last PPC computers came off the assembly line 15 years ago.

I'm not sure what the oldest versions of the OS that can talk to each other are, maybe I'll play with Tiger/Leopard tomorrow.
 
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AL1630 said:
Always fun to tinker with stuff and see what will work! It's impressive that we can still get online with almost 20 year old software and even older hardware.

Crazy that OS X came out almost 20 years ago and the last PPC computers came off the assembly line 15 years ago.

I'm not sure what the oldest versions of the OS that can talk to each other are, maybe I'll play with Tiger/Leopard tomorrow.
Click to expand...
What I am thinking of trying is network 10.0.3 with my 2005 PowerBook G4 running 10.5.8 over Apple Talk. The G4 can still network with newer versions such as 10.13.
 
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This is somewhat related, sort of.
I have a FreeNAS file server setup doing both AFP and SMB. It works with any OS that I've been able to throw at it yet.
Mac OS 9.x is able to connect via AFP, but not SMB. All versions of Mac OS X are able to connect via AFP, and 10.4+ are able to connect AFP and SMB.
Windows is obviously able to connect via SMB. I also enabled legacy SMB support on the server, so I've actually been able to connect Windows 98SE, ME, 2000, and XP to it as well.
Linux can connect via both AFP and SMB.

I have had problems in the past connecting "Mac OS X" and "macOS" together by themselves. Before my FreeNAS server I was using a Sawtooth G4. Any PPC mac would work with it just fine, but sometimes newer versions such as 10.13, or 10.14, would refuse to connect. If I remember correctly, it would work most of the time if Leopard was running AFP, but Tiger would not. Leopard's version of AFP must be new enough for "macOS" to understand.

I suspect FreeNAS is running a legacy support type of thing with AFP as well since I'm able to use it on basically anything.


Also, isn't 10.0.4 the latest version of Cheetah?
 
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AL1630 said:
It's impressive that we can still get online with almost 20 year old software and even older hardware.
Click to expand...
IE 5.1 is so useless it's not even funny. Not that the other browsers available for Cheetah are any better...

forums.macrumors.com

The Cheetah Thread (Mac OS X 10.0)

Mac OS X 10.0 Cheetah Supported Hardware: Power Mac G3 (Desktop, Mini Tower, All-in-One, Blue & White) Power Mac G4 (Yikes, Sawtooth, Gigabit, Digital Audio, QuickSilver [requires 10.0.4 build 4S10]) Power Mac G4 Cube iMac G3 iMac DV PowerBook G3 (excluding Kanga) PowerBook G4 Titanium...
forums.macrumors.com forums.macrumors.com
 
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Project Alice said:
This is somewhat related, sort of.
I have a FreeNAS file server setup doing both AFP and SMB. It works with any OS that I've been able to throw at it yet.
Mac OS 9.x is able to connect via AFP, but not SMB. All versions of Mac OS X are able to connect via AFP, and 10.4+ are able to connect AFP and SMB.
Windows is obviously able to connect via SMB. I also enabled legacy SMB support on the server, so I've actually been able to connect Windows 98SE, ME, 2000, and XP to it as well.
Linux can connect via both AFP and SMB.

I have had problems in the past connecting "Mac OS X" and "macOS" together by themselves. Before my FreeNAS server I was using a Sawtooth G4. Any PPC mac would work with it just fine, but sometimes newer versions such as 10.13, or 10.14, would refuse to connect. If I remember correctly, it would work most of the time if Leopard was running AFP, but Tiger would not. Leopard's version of AFP must be new enough for "macOS" to understand.

I suspect FreeNAS is running a legacy support type of thing with AFP as well since I'm able to use it on basically anything.


Also, isn't 10.0.4 the latest version of Cheetah?
Click to expand...
I had 10.0.4 installed but had to reinstall it due to some issues with OS 9 not allowing be set OS X as the default startup disk.

I’m trying to find a better web browser that might work on 10.0.
 
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Read this, from Classilla's developer Dr K. A little not worth it for me, frankly. He says Classila doesn't work with this yet, but he's planning on intergrating it in the future. Maybe after he's stopped COVID-19 from killing more people in Riverside County CA, which is his current priority. Edit: Maybe alex_free, the macrumors PPC user with the best programming chops I've seen here can intergrate this into a Panther or Jaguar capable browser? Camino was the last Panther supported browser as I recall. Seems like a perfect solution for pre-Tiger Macs.

oldvcr.blogspot.com

Fun with Crypto Ancienne: TLS for the Browsers of the Internet of Old Things

The TLS apocalypse knocked a lot of our fun old machines off the Web despite most of them having enough horsepower for basic crypto because...
oldvcr.blogspot.com oldvcr.blogspot.com
 
Last edited:
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If you have a device that can run Chrome/Chromium you can use Web Rendering Proxy to render the page in Chrome, and then pass the rendered page as a GIF or PNG with links as clickable elements to the Cheetah device: https://github.com/tenox7/wrp

You could use a VPS for this if you don't have a fast machine handy, though it's not very secure without a VPN connection to it.
 
Amethyst1 said:
IE 5.1 is so useless it's not even funny. Not that the other browsers available for Cheetah are any better...

forums.macrumors.com

The Cheetah Thread (Mac OS X 10.0)

Mac OS X 10.0 Cheetah Supported Hardware: Power Mac G3 (Desktop, Mini Tower, All-in-One, Blue & White) Power Mac G4 (Yikes, Sawtooth, Gigabit, Digital Audio, QuickSilver [requires 10.0.4 build 4S10]) Power Mac G4 Cube iMac G3 iMac DV PowerBook G3 (excluding Kanga) PowerBook G4 Titanium...
forums.macrumors.com forums.macrumors.com
Click to expand...
That's true, google is about the most complicated page it'll load. I think I had ok luck with some other sites using an ancient version of firefox once. It is unfortunate the pre-tiger browser landscape is so barren.
 
AL1630 said:
It is unfortunate the pre-tiger browser landscape is so barren.
Click to expand...

There's this for Jaguar and up although it could be considered cheating.

forums.macrumors.com

Opera Mini Browser On PowerPC

This is largely a rehash of the work of @Amethyst1 here who discovered the java emulator/player of sergiolopes but what I've done is slimmed down the required files and rewritten the script, preconfigured the settings and made a launch-able applet. So, what you have is an instance of Opera Mini...
forums.macrumors.com forums.macrumors.com
 
Amethyst1 said:
That would be 10.0.4 build 4S10 shipped with the Quicksilver.
Click to expand...
Mr. Dee said:
I had 10.0.4 installed but had to reinstall it due to some issues with OS 9 not allowing be set OS X as the default startup disk.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I have ran 10.0.4 on my slot loading 500Mhz Indigo iMac, and also my old 333Mhz grape(?) tray loader. I never had any issues switching from OS 9 to X. I think I might have ran it on my 500Mhz "Dual USB" iBook too; though that might have just been installed long enough to run the 10.1 upgrade CD I have.
 
Project Alice said:
Interesting. I have ran 10.0.4 on my slot loading 500Mhz Indigo iMac, and also my old 333Mhz grape(?) tray loader. I never had any issues switching from OS 9 to X. I think I might have ran it on my 500Mhz "Dual USB" iBook too; though that might have just been installed long enough to run the 10.1 upgrade CD I have.
Click to expand...
Well, the battery is not working in the PowerBook G3 and something is not getting saved to the firmware when I unplug. If I don't use the Wallstreet for a while, even though I set the default boot drive in OS X or OS 9 as 'OS X' it still defaults to 9 on boot up and somehow becomes corrupt. Corrupt meaning, if I try going into Startup disk in OS 9 the system hangs.
 
Imixmuan said:
Read this, from Classilla's developer Dr K. A little not worth it for me, frankly. He says Classila doesn't work with this yet, but he's planning on intergrating it in the future. Maybe after he's stopped COVID-19 from killing more people in Riverside County CA, which is his current priority. Edit: Maybe alex_free, the macrumors PPC user with the best programming chops I've seen here can intergrate this into a Panther or Jaguar capable browser? Camino was the last Panther supported browser as I recall. Seems like a perfect solution for pre-Tiger Macs.

oldvcr.blogspot.com

Fun with Crypto Ancienne: TLS for the Browsers of the Internet of Old Things

The TLS apocalypse knocked a lot of our fun old machines off the Web despite most of them having enough horsepower for basic crypto because...
oldvcr.blogspot.com oldvcr.blogspot.com
Click to expand...

NOTE FROM CAMERON KAISER RE: CLASSILA.

Good news and bad news... the good news is that Classila is not abandoned and will be seeing updates soon.. just no idea when.. the bad news: Kaiser needs to find others to assist with the project. Updates to Classila can happen, but because he is so busy with TenFourFox and keeping internet still alive on PPC, those who know Carbon and are willing to assist with Classila updates are welcomed to do so, but at this time he is too busy with other things to take on Classila as its not a high priority sadly, but others are welcomed to get it going again. I for one am all for this.
 
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I forget what version it was added, but any drive share with APFS can't connect from older HFS+ machines. I can see my MacBook Air while browsing the Network folder on 10.3-10.6 but it won't actually connect after attempting. However, from the opposite end, I can see older machines from my MacBook Air (running 10.14 Mojave) and connect just fine. It's just a one way connection because of the file system. Perhaps 10.0 is too old for even that to work with newer macOS versions.

I can connect to my Mac Server running 10.5 while on a Mac OS 9 machine, so a 10.0 to 10.5 connection should work just fine I think.
 
Yep, IE5 on my Windows 3.11 ThinkPad still can connect to Google… And that's about all. WRP helps, but even that produces flaky output from time to time, and text entry is… painful.
 
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Great work on this and it's good to know it works!

Unfortunately, your last photo of the "unexpectedly quit" is quite a frequent site in 10.0 :) .
 
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