Mac Pro 1,1 2008 upgrade - is it worth it?

[PUPINASHOUSEREC]

Hi everyone,

I have this old Mac that I still use in my home studio for audio recordings. It's time to get back in the present, I'm consindering to buy a new machine but I was wondering if there's still some juice that could I squeeze from this old battle axe by providing it some new equipment.

Is it worth it? is it something that I could do by myself? Or is it better to look straight for something less outdated?

I was looking for some 2012 models and I thought that maybe I could upgrade mine instead, that's all.

Thanks in advance

 

[Bigwaff]

You can certainly upgrade the RAM and storage to SSD perhaps.. but the max version of Mac OS is 10.7 Lion which is terribly old. That being said, RAM upgrade and SSD upgrade will make a significant difference in the performance of your current workflow w/out updating or upgrading any software tools you already have installed. You can probably get RAM and SSD much cheaper on eBay than from retailer. Some options below.

Memory Upgrades for 2006-2007 Apple Mac Pro from OWC

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[theMarble]

but the max version of Mac OS is 10.7 Lion which is terribly old.

The actual max is El Cap 10.11.6 w/ the 2018-001 Security Update (005 bricks the patch). Note that to run anything higher than Lion, you need to upgrade the video card. The stock 7300 GT, X1900 XT and FX 4500 are not supported at all.

In terms of the 1,1 in general, it can very much still be used as a dedicated DAW, however the cost of upgrades (especially because FB-DIMM memory is more expensive than standard DIMM) is higher long term than it is to buy either a 4,1/5,1 or a more modern Mac. However, if you do want to keep it, this is what I suggest (in this order):

- Install the MacPro2,1 EFI update, this allows you to run newer processors.
- Upgrade to dual Xeon X5365 CPUs, this will bring your system from 4 cores @ 2GHz to 8 cores @ 3GHz.
- Put an SSD in to make the system faster.
- Install at least 16GB of DDR2 667MHz FB-DIMM (FB-DIMMs are necessary, standard DIMM's are not compatible).
- Look around for a newer video card. There are three ways to go, first option is to get a "Mac Edition" video card, this means that you will be able to see the boot screen, get access to Recovery Mode and change the boot device, however these cards are typically more expensive. Second option is to get a "flashed" video card, this means that you will be able to see all of the above. You can either buy a pre-flashed card or flash it yourself. For this you will need a PC with a PCIe slot available. Third is to just buy a normal PC Card, however you will get a black screen until the login screen loads and you can't access the recovery menu or boot selector.
- Install El Capitan - There is a patch tool which allows you to install El Capitan on a 1,1/2,1 machine.

Here is a list of all Mac Edition cards that will work
- GeForce 8800 GT
- GeForce GTX 285
- GeForce GTX 680
- Radeon HD 2600 XT
- Radeon HD 3870
- Radeon HD 4870
- Radeon HD 5770
- Radeon HD 5870
- Radeon HD 7950
- Quadro FX 5600
- Quadro FX 4800
- Quadro 4000
- Quadro K5000

If you are fine with no boot screen and just want to run El Capitan, the fastest cards you can use are "Maxwell" cards from NVIDIA. These are the GTX 9xx cards, with the best being the GTX 980 Ti 6GB.

If you are wanting a fast video card that works on both old OS X versions like Snow Leopard, and works well on El Capitan, I highly suggest the 5770 and 5870.

I suggest having a good read through the Definitive Mac Pro Upgrade Guide, linked here.

 

[Amethyst1]

Here is a list of all Mac Edition cards that will work [...]
- GeForce GTX 285
- GeForce GTX 680
- Quadro 4000
- Quadro K5000

It's worth mentioning that these are EFI64 cards and won't show a bootscreen in an EFI32 machine like the MacPro1,1 and MacPro2,1. (I hope I'm correct this time! )

 

[theMarble]

It's worth mentioning that these are EFI64 cards and won't show a bootscreen in an EFI32 machine...

You’re probably right. I haven’t read anything that says directly that any NVIDIA EFI64 card has a boot screen. I know at least the 4000 is detected once the drivers start up. 7950 does apparently show a bootscreen, but that might only be the case if you don’t look at it the wrong way

I should also add that unlike ATI/AMD, the 8800 GT Mac Edition had two versions, the one most people know about (EFI64 for 3,1+), but there is also the shortly sold “First Generation” model that looks identical but has 32-bit EFI instead.

 

[Amethyst1]

If you are wanting a fast video card that works on both old OS X versions like Snow Leopard, and works well on El Capitan, I highly suggest the 5770 and 5870.

Or a Radeon HD 6850/6870 if you can find one that hasn’t blown up yet. Not quite as fast as a 5870 though.

[...] the 8800 GT Mac Edition had two versions, the one most people know about (EFI64 for 3,1+), but there is also the shortly sold “First Generation” model that looks identical but has 32-bit EFI instead.

The MacPro1,1 I briefly played with came with that card.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Absolutely it is worth it. You can score 32 GB 667 MHz DDR2 FB-DIMM for $40 USD shipped on eBay, a couple 120gb SSDs for about $15-18 shipped each for a raid0 boot drive, $10 each, for the two aluminum sled adapters you'll need to install the SSDs and then leverage the remaining two sleds for your high cap storage drives. As this is a DAW, having a top of the line cpu really is not necessary. I run a humble pc NVIDIA GeForce GT 240 1gb cpu and this box flies for most tasks which include DAW. You can pick one up shipped for $10 bucks lol. This GPU is assuming you are going to upgrade the OS to El Capitan. You can install El Cap using something like the piker-alpha installer. Here's the link to the DosDude1 video I used to successfully upgrade years ago (and my 1,1 is still cranking along without issue).

So all in, you're looking at around $100-$120 bucks + your time and you can have a fantastic foundation for your home studio DAW. Additionally, this puts you in the much more affordable used DAW hard/software ecosystem as well vs shelling out for for new crap that does the same thing (capture audio). If you want to offset that cost, you can always sell the gpu it came with on eBay although I think it makes great sense to keep it as you never know if you will want to run tiger-Lion on a partition in the future. All in I think upgrading is a fantastic value.

I haven't felt the need to upgrade firmware to 2,1 and cpus although I assuredly will do so when I get the opportunity. I mean who would say no to 8 cores and the added horses they bring

 

[PUPINASHOUSEREC]

Thanks a lot for all the inputs, you all triggered my curiosity and I'd like to give it a try even if I'll decide one day to buy another machine.

I have 2 questions that may sound so noob, but I have to clarify this in order to avoid any sorts of issues.

1. I have a mixer, connected via firewire to the Mac. It is a Mackie Onyx 1640i, and I'm reading on the internet about some issues regarding the driver compatibility on newer OS. Reading this, it seems that I should be fine if I install OS Catalina, since the serial on my mixer starts with 003. I don't find anything else regarding this, so I don't know if my mixer will work on OS above Catalina.

2. One of my main goals is to have the capability to run audio plug-ins with 64 bits structure, is it something that I will achieve once I'll do all the upgrades on my machine?

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Thanks a lot for all the inputs, you all triggered my curiosity and I'd like to give it a try even if I'll decide one day to buy another machine.

I have 2 questions that may sound so noob, but I have to clarify this in order to avoid any sorts of issues.

1. I have a mixer, connected via firewire to the Mac. It is a Mackie Onyx 1640i, and I'm reading on the internet about some issues regarding the driver compatibility on newer OS. Reading this, it seems that I should be fine if I install OS Catalina, since the serial on my mixer starts with 003. I don't find anything else regarding this, so I don't know if my mixer will work on OS above Catalina.

2. One of my main goals is to have the capability to run audio plug-ins with 64 bits structure, is it something that I will achieve once I'll do all the upgrades on my machine.

1.) The mixer you have has official drivers for up to 10.8 mountain lion, so you have two options: run your DAW on macOS snow leopard 10.6 or 10.7 Lion with era appropriate 64bit software (like Logic Pro 9.1) and you’ll be fine OR - if you were planning to upgrade to the maximum version macOS this box will run which is 10.11 El Capitan, a quick internet search yielded this - you can still use the Onyx 1640i mixer but you’ll need to disable SIP (system integrity protection) first. With SIP disabled, folks have reported that your mixer will work fine while running El Cap.

2. While your cMP 1,1 is limited to a 32-Bit EFI ROM, 64bit Applications run natively; this is independent of the EFI ROM which means a DAW like Apple’s LogicPro 9.1+ which has 64bit support baked in, will take full advantage of this & address the full 32gb of ram. Here’s the thread illustrating this if you want to check it out - post #12.

Can a 1,1 utilize Logic Pro 64bit mode.

A great knowledge base for cMPs of all versions is this web resource.

Best of luck to you.

 

[TheShortTimer]

Good advice offered in this thread!

I'd also recommend a USB 3.0 card - it will allow you to take advantage of USB devices with faster data transfer rates, which could introduce a huge boost when exporting/importing your audio recording from external drives. If you're interested, here's one that I picked up not too long ago for my cMP 1,1.

 

[PUPINASHOUSEREC]

Just for saying, this machine runs with a Samsung 870 EVO SSD and an ATI 4870.

So if I'll look for RAM, processors and a USB 3.0 card I should be able to do the trick.

I can't believe that I can still bring new life to this Mac

 

[PUPINASHOUSEREC]

I'm really taking advantage of you guys, but you've been so encouraging that I just can't let it go! 😂

So I need your opinion about the items I've found online (keep in mind that I live in Italy and for that reason we look on different markets, so sometimes there are things available in US but not in EU or viceversa)

Komputerbay 32GB (4x 8 GB) DDR2 667MHz PC2-5300F CL5 ECC Fully Buffered moduli FB-DIMM (240 PIN) w/Heatspreaders

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Intel Xeon X5365 Quad Core Processor 3.00ghz/8m/1333 SLAED Socket Lga771 CPU | Acquisti Online su eBay

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Are they ok for the purpose?

 

[TheShortTimer]

I'm really taking advantage of you guys, but you've been so encouraging that I just can't let it go! 😂

We're here to help one another.

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Are they ok for the purpose?

Have a look through this thread: USB 3.x PCIe Cards for Classic Mac Pro. That card will be fit for the purpose when you upgrade to El Capitan but from what I can see of the PCB, there is only one controller which means that the bandwidth will be shared between the four ports and this means that the transfer rate will decrease if you're using more than one device simultaneously. If that isn't an issue for you then it's a decent buy for the price.

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

I'm really taking advantage of you guys, but you've been so encouraging that I just can't let it go! 😂

So I need your opinion about the items I've found online (keep in mind that I live in Italy and for that reason we look on different markets, so sometimes there are things available in US but not in EU or viceversa)

Are they ok for the purpose?

Apart from the high price, they seem OK for me.
In my case, I stepped down a little bit.
I bought 8 x 4GB FB-DIMM for ~24$ (~3$/ea)
Xeon X5355 in stead of X5365 ~ 24$ (12$/ea)

 

[PUPINASHOUSEREC]

italy
A part from the high price, they seems OK for me.
In my case, I stepped down a little bit.
I bought 8 x 4GB FB-DIMM for ~24$ (~3$/ea)
Xeon X5355 in stead of X5365 ~ 24$ (12$/ea)

I thought the same thing, I could find better prices for those components. It's time to have a deep look into the outdated italian market

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

I thought the same thing, I could find better prices for those components. It's time to have a deep look into the outdated italian market

For local market, if you walk-in a junk shop, you may even get those RAM for free.
For the CPUs, better get a pair of matching CPUs than 2 CPUs from 2 different seller.

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[PUPINASHOUSEREC]

Is the stock PSU enough for the new processor? I've read that the actual power consuption with 100% of CPU usage is 65W, while a 5365 would hit 150W.

Everything fine from your side?

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

Is the stock PSU enough for the new processor? I've read that the actual power consuption with 100% of CPU usage is 65W, while a 5365 would hit 150W.

Everything fine from your side?

The PSU specs are 890W, no problems for the 2 Xeon X5365.
But all of those $ and heat for a very marginal increase in theorical speed. Much less significant increase in real life.
Therefore I chose Xeon X5355 and smile all the ways using it.
The extra cash can be used on a decent graphic card.

 

[mikiotty]

I am currently running a 1,1 (upgraded to 2,1) with two X5355, 24GB of RAM, a Radeon R9 280 (flashed with boot screen) and a Samsung 850 boot drive with El Capitan and, yes, Windows 11 64bit.
I just cannot believe how fast this machine still is with everything, so I strongly recommend you upgrade yours and keep rocking!

 

[PUPINASHOUSEREC]

Hey everyone!

I've waited more than a year before making my moves...but here I am, I just installed the hardware and I've been able to upgrade the firmware from 1,1 to 1,2.

I just can't figure to install the new OS, I've followed different methods but nothing seems to work for me.

If I try to copy the DMG to the SSD via Disk Utility like in this video, it shows a message at the end of the verify saying "invalid argument".

If I try it via terminal/OS Patcher as shown in this video, terminal shows an error message when I drop the OS file.
Unfortunately I can't use a second Mac to try this method (as suggested from a user in this thread a year ago), and I don't know what to do!

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

Hey everyone!

I've waited more than a year before making my moves...but here I am, I just installed the hardware and I've been able to upgrade the firmware from 1,1 to 1,2.

I just can't figure to install the new OS, I've followed different methods but nothing seems to work for me.

If I try to copy the DMG to the SSD via Disk Utility like in this video, it shows a message at the end of the verify saying "invalid argument".

If I try it via terminal/OS Patcher as shown in this video, terminal shows an error message when I drop the OS file.
Unfortunately I can't use a second Mac to try this method (as suggested from a user in this thread a year ago), and I don't know what to do!

Do you have any other Mac to run the restore option from Disk Utility? There is a pikified .dmg file ready for download in the video below, just restore the file to a blank disk, install it physically to your MP. I used that file successfully in my MP1,1, but at that time my MP already has a OS X Lion running.

 

[PUPINASHOUSEREC]

I finally did it! I tried another DMG and I've been able to make it work.

Since El Capitan is not so young, I was wondering if I could install a Windows 10 partition on this Mac, in order to use some audio plugins currently not supported on OS X 10.11.

Reaper is also very buggy/laggy with El Capitan, it won't even load any of the VST I try to install. They work in standalone, but Reaper is not able to make it work on the DAW.

Will Windows 10 work on this machine? Could I use it with my firewire audio interface?

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

I finally did it! I tried another DMG and I've been able to make it work.

Since El Capitan is not so young, I was wondering if I could install a Windows 10 partition on this Mac, in order to use some audio plugins currently not supported on OS X 10.11.

Reaper is also very buggy/laggy with El Capitan, it won't even load any of the VST I try to install. They work in standalone, but Reaper is not able to make it work on the DAW.

Will Windows 10 work on this machine? Could I use it with my firewire audio interface?

I've installed Windows 10 to my MP1,1 in a quite unique way.
I make an SATA Windows Installer (by making the USB Windows installer, on an USB enclosure with an SATA HDD inside) and boot from it.
When it finally booted, I installed Windows 10 on the same SATA disk.
So when the disk boots, it will show me option to do Windows 10 set-up, or skip it and go to Windows 10 desktop.