MP 7,1 Mac Pro 2019 graphics card

[724699]

Curious if the 32GB VII is worth it over the 580X for general usage such as light video editing, and mostly app development (iOS and mostly cloud & embedded hardware programming). I don't mind spending the money, but if there's no benefit in general for the following couple points then I'll just stick with the 580:

1. I have 2x Apple Pro Display XDRs to run
2. I do light video editing and large graphic file editing (but mostly programming as mentioned)

With that general usage case in mind, is there any noticeable improvements to UI responsiveness, or multi-stream 4K (or higher) video playback etc.? If the VII shows any appreciable difference in these areas, I will for sure purchase the VII. However, if the 580 handle 2 XDRs and everything feels/responds snappily I may just go with it out of the gate and later on if needed upgrade the MPX modules.

Thoughts?

Edit: seems like using the 580 for dual displays isn't optimal in terms of connectivity at least. You have to connect one display to a port on the top of the computer, and one to the 580 graphics module. That's lame ...

 

[joevt]

Edit: seems like using the 580 for dual displays isn't optimal in terms of connectivity at least. You have to connect one display to a port on the top of the computer, and one to the 580 graphics module. That's lame ...

Each XDR display needs a separate Thunderbolt controller because the XDR uses two DisplayPort signals (one for the left half of the display and one for the right half of the display) and a Thunderbolt controller only has two DisplayPort signals. The 580X doesn't have any Thunderbolt controllers, so you need to use the two that are in the Mac Pro - one for the top and one for the I/O card.

The W5700, W5700X, 5700XT support Display Stream Compression (DSC) which the XDR display also supports - and allows 6K with only a single connection and the connection doesn't need to be Thunderbolt.

 

[724699]

Each XDR display needs a separate Thunderbolt controller because the XDR uses two DisplayPort signals (one for the left half of the display and one for the right half of the display) and a Thunderbolt controller only has two DisplayPort signals. The 580X doesn't have any Thunderbolt controllers, so you need to use the two that are in the Mac Pro - one for the top and one for the I/O card.

The W5700, W5700X, 5700XT support Display Stream Compression (DSC) which the XDR display also supports - and allows 6K with only a single connection and the connection doesn't need to be Thunderbolt.

I would order the 5700 MPX module if Apple would hurry up and release it already! Seems like a better choice than blowing over $2,000 on the VII if I don't need all that power. I've got to settle on/order a system within the next couple weeks - doesn't look like it'll happen but who knows.

I guess the VII has a couple Thunderbolt controllers onboard, as Apple says you can use two ports on that to connect the displays; or one on the graphics card and one of the other ports on the back/top of the computer.

 

[joevt]

I would order the 5700 MPX module if Apple would hurry up and release it already! Seems like a better choice than blowing over $2,000 on the VII if I don't need all that power. I've got to settle on/order a system within the next couple weeks - doesn't look like it'll happen but who knows.

I guess the VII has a couple Thunderbolt controllers onboard, as Apple says you can use two ports on that to connect the displays; or one on the graphics card and one of the other ports on the back/top of the computer.

The W5700X, Vega II, and Vega II Duo have two Thunderbolt controllers each. The Mac Pro can have up to 6 Thunderbolt controllers total. People have successfully connected three XDR displays to a single Pro Vega II - two to the Vega II and one to either the Mac Pro top or to the Mac Pro I/O card. That's one more than Apple says is supported.

Since the W5700X can do 6K with a single DisplayPort signal, you could connect three XDR displays directly to it (without using the Mac Pro top or Mac Pro I/O card). I haven't seen anyone try more than 3 with a 5700 type card (Apple says only 3 is supported by the W5700X).

 

[worldburger]

Each XDR display needs a separate Thunderbolt controller because the XDR uses two DisplayPort signals (one for the left half of the display and one for the right half of the display) and a Thunderbolt controller only has two DisplayPort signals. The 580X doesn't have any Thunderbolt controllers, so you need to use the two that are in the Mac Pro - one for the top and one for the I/O card.

The W5700, W5700X, 5700XT support Display Stream Compression (DSC) which the XDR display also supports - and allows 6K with only a single connection and the connection doesn't need to be Thunderbolt.

I don't fully understand Apple's implementation of Thunderbolt connections not on the GPU...

Let me see if I understand you: to drive 2x XDR's with the AMD 580X, you'd need to plug one XDR into the IO card in the back and one XDR into the top of the Mac Pro?

Bonus Q's
1. If you added the W5700 (non X), you could plug one into that card as well?
2. The 5700 XT doesn't have a USB-C port, so how does one connect an XDR to it?
3. Can you install a GPU like the 5700 XT that doesn't have the additional MPX connections or USB-C/TB and drive these monitors directly from the HDMI outputs on the GPU (with a cable adapter)?

 

[Krevnik]

I don't fully understand Apple's implementation of Thunderbolt connections not on the GPU...

Let me see if I understand you: to drive 2x XDR's with the AMD 580X, you'd need to plug one XDR into the IO card in the back and one XDR into the top of the Mac Pro?

Correct. XDR over TB3 with Polaris / Vega uses 2 DP streams. 1 TB3 bus = 1 TB3 controller = 2 DP streams. Apple also uses 2 ports per TB3 controller. This is true for the MPX GPUs that contain TB3 ports: 2 controllers/buses, 4 ports, 4 DP streams (2 per controller/bus). EDIT: It can get a little messier than this with a single Vega II since there are 6 total DP streams available, and 4 TB3 buses, so obviously it can't feed all the buses 2 DP streams.

Bonus Q's
1. If you added the W5700 (non X), you could plug one into that card as well?
2. The 5700 XT doesn't have a USB-C port, so how does one connect an XDR to it?
3. Can you install a GPU like the 5700 XT that doesn't have the additional MPX connections or USB-C/TB and drive these monitors directly from the HDMI outputs on the GPU (with a cable adapter)?

1. Yes, for different reasons. W5700 is Navi-based, and Navi cards support DSC. The XDR will use DSC if supported so it only needs 1 DP stream instead of 2, using the compression. The XDR also supports USB-C DisplayPort alt mode, which is also needed to make this work.
2. You might be able to use a bi-directional USB-C <-> DP cable like the Moshi. I think folks have tried it with success (Edit: Yes, they have)? Check the forum here for more details in the XDR threads or via search. This will only work for Navi cards like the 5700 that support DSC.
3. From the HDMI outputs? No. Not nearly enough bandwidth. See #2.

EDIT: Added link showing someone using W5700 and XDR on the forum.
EDIT: Added link to a post where someone used a 5700 XT eGPU with a Moshi USB-C/DP cable *and* a KVM to get 6K working properly on an XDR. It was a Mac Pro 2013 as well. So the 2019 w/o eGPU or KVM should also just work fine.

 

[joevt]

Let me see if I understand you: to drive 2x XDR's with the AMD 580X, you'd need to plug one XDR into the IO card in the back and one XDR into the top of the Mac Pro?

Yes.

1. If you added the W5700 (non X), you could plug one into that card as well?

You can connect up to 3 XDR displays to a Navi card (such as W5700 or W5700X or 5700 or 5700XT).

The W5700 has a USB-C port which would be best since it will support the USB features of the display (presets, brightness control, USB ports) but only as USB 2.0.

With the W5700X you could also connect one XDR to the card and 2 to any of the four ports of the top or I/O card. The W5700X has Thunderbolt controllers so the display will have a Thunderbolt connection (not just USB-C). With a Thunderbolt connection, you get USB 3.0 to the display for the USB ports.

No one has tried connecting 4 XDR's to a Navi card but there is enough DisplayPort connections (6 total) (it might not have enough performance for more than 3).

A 580X MPX module has enough DisplayPort connections (4) to power 2 XDR displays at 6K (no DSC so 2 connections is required for 6K). You could connect 4 XDR displays at up to 4K resolution if you use a non-Thunderbolt cable for each display.

2. The 5700 XT doesn't have a USB-C port, so how does one connect an XDR to it?

A bidirectional USB-C to DisplayPort cable such as the Moshi cable sold on the Apple Store will work. But it won't have USB so you'll be missing the USB features of the display (presets, brightness control, USB ports).

3. Can you install a GPU like the 5700 XT that doesn't have the additional MPX connections or USB-C/TB and drive these monitors directly from the HDMI outputs on the GPU (with a cable adapter)?

You can install any graphics card you like (buy the Belkin AUX Power Cable Kit for Mac Pro).
The XDR display uses DisplayPort so HDMI would not be a good idea. HDMI 2.0 4K 60Hz to DisplayPort adapters exist but they are expensive ($200+) and will not give 6K.

 

[flowrider]

A bidirectional USB-C to DisplayPort cable such as the Moshi cable sold on the Apple Store will work. But it won't have USB so you'll be missing the USB features of the display (presets, brightness control, USB ports).

I tried the Moshi cable and it worked fine, a less expensive bidirectional cable is:

Monoprice Bidirectional USB Type-C to DisplayPort Cable - 4K@60Hz, Black, 6ft - Monoprice.com

No longer will you be limited by the direction of your cable! This Bidirectional USB-C? to DisplayPort? Cable allows you to connect your legacy DisplayPort devices to your newest USB-C enabled display

www.monoprice.com

I use it and it works fine, but for some reason I do not get a boot screen with my Aorus RX5700XT. For Brightness Control I use "Brightness Slider" available in the App Store.

Lou

 

[worldburger]

I tried the Moshi cable and it worked fine, a less expensive bidirectional cable is:

Monoprice Bidirectional USB Type-C to DisplayPort Cable - 4K@60Hz, Black, 6ft - Monoprice.com

No longer will you be limited by the direction of your cable! This Bidirectional USB-C? to DisplayPort? Cable allows you to connect your legacy DisplayPort devices to your newest USB-C enabled display

www.monoprice.com

I use it and it works fine, but for some reason I do not get a boot screen with my Aorus RX5700XT. For Brightness Control I use "Brightness Slider" available in the App Store.

Lou

Unfortunately that one seems to be OOS. Any other alternatives to the Moshi?

 

[flowrider]

^^^^Hmm, it's showing "In Stock" for me!

Lou

 

[worldburger]

^^^^Hmm, it's showing "In Stock" for me!

View attachment 906821

Lou

WUT. I just checked it when I posted. Thanks!

 

[gabrielefx]

6ft USB C to DisplayPort 1.4 Cable 8K/4K - USB-C Display Adapters | Display & Video Adapters | StarTech.com Canada

6ft (2m) USB C to DisplayPort 1.4 Cable 8K 60Hz/4K - Reversible DP to USB-C or USB-C to DP Video Adapter Cable HBR3/HDR/DSC | Canada

www.startech.com

 

[Voyageur]

Correct. XDR over TB3 with Polaris / Vega uses 2 DP streams. 1 TB3 bus = 1 TB3 controller = 2 DP streams. Apple also uses 2 ports per TB3 controller. This is true for the MPX GPUs that contain TB3 ports: 2 controllers/buses, 4 ports, 4 DP streams (2 per controller/bus). EDIT: It can get a little messier than this with a single Vega II since there are 6 total DP streams available, and 4 TB3 buses, so obviously it can't feed all the buses 2 DP streams.



1. Yes, for different reasons. W5700 is Navi-based, and Navi cards support DSC. The XDR will use DSC if supported so it only needs 1 DP stream instead of 2, using the compression. The XDR also supports USB-C DisplayPort alt mode, which is also needed to make this work.
2. You might be able to use a bi-directional USB-C <-> DP cable like the Moshi. I think folks have tried it with success (Edit: Yes, they have)? Check the forum here for more details in the XDR threads or via search. This will only work for Navi cards like the 5700 that support DSC.
3. From the HDMI outputs? No. Not nearly enough bandwidth. See #2.

EDIT: Added link showing someone using W5700 and XDR on the forum.
EDIT: Added link to a post where someone used a 5700 XT eGPU with a Moshi USB-C/DP cable *and* a KVM to get 6K working properly on an XDR. It was a Mac Pro 2013 as well. So the 2019 w/o eGPU or KVM should also just work fine.

Hello! Can you please tell me if I understand correctly that having an MPX W5700X module and an additional card like the RX 5700 XT (or another), I can correctly use the power of the additional card on the XDR 6K when connected it via a standard I/O Mac Pro? Or can I get the maximum performance of an additional non-MPX GPU only when the display is directly connected to it?

 

[flowrider]

^^^^I can only give you my experience. I have an Aorus RX5700XT mounted in slot one going to an LG UltraFine with USB-C inputs. I am using a bidirectional cable to go from the DP of the card to the monitor. With this setup I get no boot screen. I installed the stock Pro580X in slot three for the rare occasions when I need a boot screen. That is connected by a TB cable to the monitor. When I boot with both cables attached it boots from the 5700XT, if I pull that cable out it boots from the 580X. From my experience and the testing I have done, it appears to me that the cards are acting independently of each other.

Lou

 

[s66]

Please see the Apple documentation here:

Use multiple displays with your Mac Pro (2019) - Apple Support

Learn how to connect multiple displays (such as 4K, 5K, and 6K displays) to your Mac Pro (2019) using Thunderbolt 3 and HDMI.

support.apple.com

more specifically for the W5700X MPX module:

Use the Radeon Pro W5700X MPX Module with your Mac Pro (2019) - Apple Support

Learn about the different display setups you can use with your MPX Module on your Mac Pro (2019).

support.apple.com

 

[Voyageur]

^^^^I can only give you my experience. I have an Aorus RX5700XT mounted in slot one going to an LG UltraFine with USB-C inputs. I am using a bidirectional cable to go from the DP of the card to the monitor. With this setup I get no boot screen. I installed the stock Pro580X in slot three for the rare occasions when I need a boot screen. That is connected by a TB cable to the monitor. When I boot with both cables attached it boots from the 5700XT, if I pull that cable out it boots from the 580X. From my experience and the testing I have done, it appears to me that the cards are acting independently of each other.

Lou

Thank you, Lou.

What if you migrate the 580X I/O Display Thunderbolt connection to the stock TB3 MacPro’s I/O? (580 MPX and 5700 remain both connected to the Mac Pro)

Please see the Apple documentation here:

Use multiple displays with your Mac Pro (2019) - Apple Support

Learn how to connect multiple displays (such as 4K, 5K, and 6K displays) to your Mac Pro (2019) using Thunderbolt 3 and HDMI.

support.apple.com

more specifically for the W5700X MPX module:

Use the Radeon Pro W5700X MPX Module with your Mac Pro (2019) - Apple Support

Learn about the different display setups you can use with your MPX Module on your Mac Pro (2019).

support.apple.com

Thank you, I have read these documents, but I still don’t understand why many are trying to connect the monitor directly to the TB3 outputs from the GPU. Judging by the links you gave, the connection can be made through any TB3 port if there is an active MPX box in the Mac Pro system.

 

[flowrider]

Thank you, Lou.

What if you migrate the 580X I/O Display Thunderbolt connection to the stock TB3 MacPro’s I/O? (580 MPX and 5700 remain both connected to the Mac Pro)

That's what I ended up doing. With both GPUs connected the Mac runs off the 5700XT with no boot screen. If I pull the 5700XT cable and reboot, it will boot and run from the 580X and I have a boot screen.

Lou

 

[Schatz]

Hi I have a new setup question. I have an MSI 5700xt which I use in my Mac mini eGPU. I’m upgrading to a Mac Pro. I mostly deal with large photoshop files.



Should I:

A: Keep the base 580 MpX card and use it with the MSI 5700xt. Then use the money saved (vs option B) on more RAM or going for 12 core (over 8)



B: Upgrade to the w5700xt MPX and just have a single graphics card?



Thanks!