MP 6,1 Mac Pro 6.1, new 4TB NVMe blades — is it possible and is anyone using?

[mikehalloran]

A couple of examples.

Sabrent 4TB

OWC 4TB m2

Yes I know about the Simtech adapter – not my first trip to the rodeo. I’m wondering if, since they are double-sided, if there are clearance issues. Likewise, if there’s a possibility of avoiding major heat problems in the limited space.

 

[Hunter5117]

Someone over on the MacProUpgrade FB group just installed the Sabrent 8tb blade in his MP 6,1. It sounds like after the initial data transfer, which filled the cache and then slowed down, that it is performing as expected.

 

[mikehalloran]

MacProUpgrade

Thanks for that. I've asked to join so I can read it and ask questions.

 

[Hunter5117]

It is a pretty good group. A couple over there are pretty quick with the "search before asking" type of response but otherwise a good resource.

 

[MisterAndrew]

Thanks for the info. Updated the SSD thread that the 4TB and 8TB Rocket Q drives are compatible.

PCIe SSDs - NVMe & AHCI

This is a general info thread for blade SSDs that can be used in the Mac Pro. This is a WikiPost so anyone with the proper credentials may edit it. NVMe SSDs can be used as a boot drive in the MP5,1 and MP6,1 with the latest firmware installed (beginning with version 140.0.0.0.0 for MP5,1 and...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[rockyromero]

Someone over on the MacProUpgrade FB group just installed the Sabrent 8tb blade in his MP 6,1. It sounds like after the initial data transfer, which filled the cache and then slowed down, that it is performing as expected.

Would the Sabrent 8TB be this as shown on Amazon?

SABRENT Rocket Q 8TB NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 Internal SSD High Performance Solid State Drive R/W 3300/2900MB/s (SB-RKTQ-8TB)

The Sabrent 8TB ROCKET Q NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 Internal SSD High-Performance Solid State Drive (SB-RKTQ-8TB) delivers all the advantages of flash disk technology with PCIe Gen3 x4 interface and it is fully compliant with the standard Next Generation Form Factor (NGFF), commonly-known as M.2. Based o...

www.amazon.com

 

[mikehalloran]

Would the Sabrent 8TB be this as shown on Amazon?

SABRENT Rocket Q 8TB NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 Internal SSD High Performance Solid State Drive R/W 3300/2900MB/s (SB-RKTQ-8TB)

The Sabrent 8TB ROCKET Q NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 Internal SSD High-Performance Solid State Drive (SB-RKTQ-8TB) delivers all the advantages of flash disk technology with PCIe Gen3 x4 interface and it is fully compliant with the standard Next Generation Form Factor (NGFF), commonly-known as M.2. Based o...

www.amazon.com

Yes.

Checked it out. The person in the FaceBook group turns out to be Bob Katz, a very well known audio and mastering engineer whom I've met a few times. So, I reached out to him. His response to me:

Mike Halloran thanks for asking. In another thread I posted that the disk died yesterday. Barely any response. If I coax it I might see the contents of a couple of folders.

I pulled it out of the Mac and put it in a usb nvme adapter. Sometimes it shows up but most of the contents are not revealed. This is the same adapter I initially tested it in just a few days ago and the performance was fine.

It is really and truly dead.

Yes, I attached a heat sink to the top with thermal tape.

I have a ticket in to Sabrent support. My plan is to get a replacement and kick its tires for a long long time in another machine Before I commit to it.

Since the machines I'm asking about are used in audio and AV production, I'm considering this issue dead for now.

Hopefully, someone will get this sorted out but from what I'm hearing, these aren't ready for the oven that is the 6.1.

Still looking for info on the 4TB SSDs from Sabrent or OWC. One of the Sabrents is V-NAND (as is the 8TB) while the other is 3D as is the OWC. Not interested in V NAND for a system drive. So the search continues.

Thanks for the help so far!

 

[mikehalloran]

I notice that 8TB and the 4TB NVMe blades I've seen (one from OWC and two from Sabrant) are all double-sided. This may be the real issue: No way to draw heat from the back side in a 6.1.

 

[Hunter5117]

Wow, very sorry for that. I guess this capacity may be beyond what the 6,1 can handle, or visa versa.

 

[mikehalloran]

Wow, very sorry for that. I guess this capacity may be beyond what the 6,1 can handle, or visa versa.

There's no way to cool the chips on the back side in a 6.1.

Until someone makes a one-sided 4TB NVMe blade that can be cooled by a heat sink that fits the trashcan, we're limited to 2TB blades that work. Oh well…

Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction.

 

[rockyromero]

There's no way to cool the chips on the back side in a 6.1.

Until someone makes a one-sided 4TB NVMe blade that can be cooled by a heat sink that fits the trashcan, we're limited to 2TB blades that work. Oh well…

Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction.

I’m considering Amfeltec Angelshark board to attached additional drives that may total 5TB, as shown in this thread.

Mac Pro (Late 2013) - Amfeltec AngelShark Carrier Board - Storage Upgrade

Test Mac Pro Specifications MacPro6,1 BootROM: MP61.0120.B00 macOS High Sierra 10.13.1 (17B1003) E5-1660v2 3.7GHz (15MB L3) Hexacore 16GB of Apple/SKHynix PC3-14900 ECC Apple/Samsung SM0256G PCIe SSD (SSUBX based) 2x AMD FirePro D300 with 2GB VRAM Testing Tools for SSD Benchmarks AJA System...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[th0masp]

Oh well. Looks like a matter of time until these can be shrunk down enough.

Then again this SSD is so pricey, wouldn't it make sense to go with that 400-500$ 3rd party accessory board/controller instead that allows you to run 3 or 4 SSDs inside the machine?

What's the recommended operating temperature for SSDs anyway?

 

[mikehalloran]

Oh well. Looks like a matter of time until these can be shrunk down enough.

Then again this SSD is so pricey, wouldn't it make sense to go with that 400-500$ 3rd party accessory board/controller instead that allows you to run 3 or 4 SSDs inside the machine?…

My OP was about a 4TB SSD. Those are averaging $800. So, a pair of 2TB @ $250 ea + a $400 board isn’t a bad deal. Especially when you consider that the 4TB blades are double-sided and will cook as surely as the 8TB did. This board cannot use double-sided blades either.

The center slot is for the original AHCI. If it doesn’t work without that, then functionality is limited. I haven’t researched enough if these require the center to be filled or not.

In any case, your boot SSD is a maximum of 2TB. Period. APFS is required as is High Sierra or later for an NVMe blade to perform in a bus designed for AHCI. You can’t boot from RAID 0 over APFS in HS. With 2TB being your maximum boot drive, might as well run external storage over Thunderbolt — I think the $400–$500 is better spent on that.

Moving on...

OWC did offer a 4TB ACHI blade for the 6.1. Like all other AHCI drives, no one makes it anymore. I recall it costing $2k or more but it got down to around $1,200 or so when OWC ran a clearance. I’ve not been able to find one anywhere at any price. Of course, like all AHCI, its maximum speed is around 60% of NVMe in a 6.1 — or any Mac not upgraded in 2015 (some Airs, Mini and a few others). The 2015 iMacs got the slow blade in an NVMe 3 x4 bus Leaving them perfect candidates for an inexpensive major upgrade — but I digress.

 

[mikehalloran]

What's the recommended operating temperature for SSDs anyway?

According to Bob Katz, the max temp per Sabrant Spec is 70° C. As that 8TB was dying, SMART was reporting 69° C.

Was it averaging the 8 chips onboard? Probably. So it’s probable that the 4 on the back side were cooking up like crayons in an EZ Bake Oven. Are those still around or did I just date myself here?

 

[stockholm80]

Contradictory to the other posts in this thread I have been using the dual sided Sabrent 4tb without issues for about 2 weeks now. This is the regular Rocket and not the Q version. I'm using the ST-NGFF2013-C adapter and no heatsink. SMART has not reported temperatures over 32 degrees Celsius and no overheating issues so far. I'm running the fan in the Mac about 30% higher than default using the app TG Pro. As I reported in the ST-NGFF2013-C thread in the same forum I was previously using the Samsung 970 EVO and SMART then reported temperatures at about 50 degrees so it looks like the Sabrent runs a lot cooler than that drive.

 

[rockyromero]

Contradictory to the other posts in this thread I have been using the dual sided Sabrent 4tb without issues for about 2 weeks now. This is the regular Rocket and not the Q version. I'm using the ST-NGFF2013-C adapter and no heatsink. SMART has not reported temperatures over 32 degrees Celsius and no overheating issues so far. I'm running the fan in the Mac about 30% higher than default using the app TG Pro. As I reported in the ST-NGFF2013-C thread in the same forum I was previously using the Samsung 970 EVO and SMART then reported temperatures at about 50 degrees so it looks like the Sabrent runs a lot cooler than that drive.

This is very encouraging.

Thanks for your input.

➰

 

[mikehalloran]

Without issues? You are running the fan 30% higher — that’s an issue.

What is the context? My clients are doing AV. What are you doing?

 

[stockholm80]

I just raised the fans to be on the safe side so that the SSD would get a little extra cooling since I’m not using a heat sink. Not sure if it’s needed. The computer is used for music work. Logic Pro X and Pro Tools mainly.

 

[mikehalloran]

I just raised the fans to be on the safe side so that the SSD would get a little extra cooling since I’m not using a heat sink. Not sure if it’s needed. The computer is used for music work. Logic Pro X and Pro Tools mainly.

Ok… That was the answer I was looking for.

My guys are using LPX, Digital Performer and FCPx etc. so the uses are similar.

I will let them know that someone does have 4TB working and recommends raising the fan. If it works, it works..

I'm not a fan of QLC anyway and only recommend it for streaming and VI drives.

 

[MisterAndrew]

Perhaps it died because it's a lower quality QLC drive and not because it cooked. Perhaps the TLC drive is the way to go. I think Sabrent's drives are lower quality in general though.

 

[mikehalloran]

Perhaps it died because it's a lower quality QLC drive and not because it cooked. Perhaps the TLC drive is the way to go. I think Sabrent's drives are lower quality in general though.

There is no 8TB TLC NVMe blade.

Bob Katz documented the temp readings on that one pretty well. He did have a heat sink on it but not one that can draw heat from the rear chips — I don't know that one exists that works in an MP 6.1.

Interestingly, Sabrent refused to exchange the failed part. Instead, they told te reseller to refund his money.

 

[DFP1989]

I think Sabrent's drives are lower quality in general though.

Where are you getting this from? They've been highly regarded in the media, and I'm very pleased with the 4TB Thunderbolt 3 drive I put together using one of their drives.