MP 7,1 Mac Pro 7,1 - hit or Miss?

[JazzyGB1]

So it's been out over a year now, is it fair to say that the current Mac Pro has bombed or do you think it's been a success?

It's certainly seems scarce here in the UK.

The cMP was ubiquitous and the found just about everywhere, especially in studios and web/graphic design companies, but in my (all be it VERY limited) experience that's not the case at all with the current model and Ive yet to see one 'in the wild'.

Has the high entry price point doomed it to be a niche product?

Or is it just that the music studios and web/graphic design companies are no longer the target market for the 'Pro' Mac?

I know it's impossible to ever know how many units Apple have sold, but from what I have (not) seen it appears to be considerably less in comparison to the the cMP and appears a long way from gaining the traction the last tower Mac did.

Do you think they need a sub £3k Mac, maybe the rumoured Mac Mini Pro?

Ive seen posts about problems with W5700X GPU, is there a reliability issue?

For those who took the plunge and purchased one has it lived up to expectations, or has it left you underwhelmed?

Be interesting to see what you guys think.

 

[The_Interloper]

I'm sure it's a hit for those who've bought it. But I do wonder how many pros had already jumped ship before it was announced. A huge amount must have also been waiting (and waiting...and waiting) for it only to be shocked at the starting price.

 

[SecuritySteve]

I love my 7,1. I bought one for work and personal use, replacing my iMac Pro which got me over the hump until the Mac Pro came out.

I haven't had any reliability problems, and I'm using a third party GPU and third party RAM. The performance is great and the price, while steep, is definitely worth the product.

 

[blackadde]

It really depends on how you want to define success, right?

Only Apple knows what they invested into the product, what they projected their sales to be, and what they actually were. I'm sure they also have some sense of it's value as a halo / prestige device too, making pure ROI calculations a little fuzzy.

I can only come at it from a "does this make sense for X use case?" POV. I wrote a whole mountain of text out, but nobody really wants to read that stuff. IMO:

• It's great for FCP and Logic and other heavy Mac-only workflows. It's your only choice, anyways.
• It's probably very performant for video work (Resolve, Premiere, etc.). I don't know much about this market so I won't pollute those waters in this thread.
• I think it's a terrible buy for most OS-agnostic 2D work (Adobe, Harmony, Affinity) because it's overpowered for the use case and the market is price-sensitive. Almost everything in this category can be handled by a docked MBP or iMac if you're determined to stay in the Apple ecosystem. These people do not need a bundle of spare PCIe lanes or huge RAM headroom and they won't pay for it.
• I think it's an even worse buy for 3D work (CPU / GPU grunt per workstation or software license) because it's underpowered relative to the competition even when price isn't a factor, and worse when price *is* a factor. It's not Apple's design choices. They just bet on the wrong horses.

Disclaimer: I seriously considered a MP for a new workstation earlier this year to work in Houdini and Octane in addition to the usual Adobe stuff I do. I ended up with a 32C TR machine with an RTX 3090. It would have been almost four times (4x!!) the price to order a comparable max-ish-spec MP (28C, Vega II Duo) that still would have been significantly slower for my use case. I can handle a little Apple Tax here and there but that disparity was impossible to justify.

 

[Average Pro]

Please reword the question. If someone answers "yes", "no" or "not sure"? That implies they are saying "yes", "no" or "not sure" the MacPro is a hit...or..."yes", "no" or "not sure" the MacPro is a miss.

 

[randy85]

I do remember the previous cheese grater Mac Pro being more ubiquitous for general creative work back in around 2010. I just remember that the iMac got good enough for the majority of these users and it was easier and cheaper to supply an all-in-one.

It looks like Apple also felt like pushing that angle with the iMac Pro, but at the end of the day there were pro users who needed even more power and expandability.

I don't see the 7.1 as a failure at all, just a niche product. By raising the price of entry it freed them to make something that truly worked for the intended market, but enraged and confused everyone else.

Personally it's been totally worth it for me. I'm coming to to one year of ownership and it has changed the way I work. It's fast and rock-solid. The 5700 XT hasn't given me any issues.

I think it has probably sold relatively well, especially to institutions with demanding workflows. It just simply could never be a product you see everywhere due to the fact that cheaper products are powerful enough for the majority of users.

 

[DrEGPU]

I'm not privy to the internal workings of how Apple makes business or tech design decisions, but I think they REALLY missed the boat on AMD CPU's and PCIe 4.0. That whole PCIe lane usgae utility would've been wholly unnecessary and the MAc Pro could have had all their slots be 16x, or close to it. As it stands now, they used Intel and were forced to use PLX switching chips or whatever. The TB3 ports could have had their own dedicated PCIe lanes, but they don't. So if you've loaded up you Mac Pro with GPU's, afterburner card, capture card, nvme storage cards, then you potentially get bottlenecked transferring data from external drives. I like my Mac Pro as it is generally well-designed and functional, but it lacks performance and power. Apple definitely has a very, VERY narrow definition of what a "pro" user is. Just opinions, obviosly.

 

[rpmurray]

I'm just hoping that when Apple brings out a newer updated Mac Pro (sometime in 2026?) that they will have an option that only costs an arm instead of an arm and a leg.

 

[ArPe]

CMP tower was half the cost even counting inflation but it was cheaper construction too.

The pandemic didn’t help. These costly workstations are usually installed in high budget studios and they were all closed for remote working and even that work slowed down.

The Apple Silicon version is going to come at exactly the right time and will make people very happy.

 

[JazzyGB1]

Please reword the question. If someone answers "yes", "no" or "not sure"? That implies they are saying "yes", "no" or "not sure" the MacPro is a hit...or..."yes", "no" or "not sure" the MacPro is a miss.

I agree I worded it poorly (sorry), but unfortunately it won't let me edit the responses now.

What I meant is -
A: Yes...it's been a hit
B: No...It's a been a miss (bombed)
or
C: You are not sure

 

[LeonPro]

In simplest terms:

Those who can TRULY afford it whether personal or work budget will say it's a hit.

Those who like the Mac ecosystem, but can't financially support the purchase will say it's a miss.

Of course the underlying factors whether this will be a long-term hit is the future support and expandability.

There can be a lot of "why didn't they..." fill in the blanks (i.e. PCIe 4.0, AMD, etc). But the fact of the matter is whether the current specifications is a hit for your needs. If it wasn't and you still bought it - that's on you. If you bought it based on the specifications and it didn't perform the way it should then that's a miss.

In my case, I am aware of the specs and accepted it for what it is. I have no problem with it to date.

My issues are due to the software I'm using which is Adobe CC and a big miss in terms of their archaic software code.

And if Apple drops support in terms of expansion, peripherals and further updates to make this last longer - then that will be a miss.

So time will tell for me. Which is why I'm not sure.

 

[- rob -]

At the high end it doesn’t really matter if it is a hit or a bomb. It’s the only way to have had that much power.

On the low end, the last Intel-based Mac Mini paired with a Blackmagic egpu beats the Mac Pro.

If anything the product is a bomb for the same reasons everything else in Apple laptop and desktop lines leading up to the M1: the architecture is wrong.

 

[Bluetoot-]

I mean, it's good at what it can do. And for the things it can't, it isn't.

 

[OkiRun]

Recouped the cost of the entire setup within 6months. Flawless performance to date for FCPX, LOGIC, PP, Davinci.
Some hiccups with migration in the beginning from an iMac time machine. Those were fixed with fresh installs; most issues were with PP.

 

[jimw]

I purchased my MacPro Desktop last April with the Radion W5700X. I have cautiously had problems with it since I received it. I spend more time troubleshooting it than actually doing work on it. Apple support has been of little assistance constantly blaming it on everything other than the machine or 10.15.7. The primary issue has been when I shutdown the machine it hangs often with a kernel panic, and then when it restarts by itself or I restart it it shows a watchdog error. So far, despite sending in multiple diagnostics tests to support to forward them to engineering nothing useful has ever been communicated back to me. A month ago, Apple decided to replace the entire guts of the machine other than the RAM and the built in SSD, which I am not using for booting. That helped some of my lower priority GPU issues but has done nothing for the watchdog error which seems to be random as sometimes it does shutdown normally. While with the service provider they ran an extended and complete hardware diagnosis on it and found nothing wrong. The issue generally occurs only after at least 5 hours of runtime. That and recent corrupt of one of my 8TB drives in a Promise cage in a RAID 1 configuration that took all weekend to fix has made my life with this machine a living hell! Basically, Apple has left it up to me to figure out what is wrong with it. I have owned Apple computers since 1982 and this is absolutely the worst machine, I have ever experienced from them. If it was not for the hell and cost I would be experiencing to change platforms, migrate my data and replace all my Apps (300), it would be a no brainer to sell this monstrosity and replace it with a Linux or Windows machine. I purchased this caliber of machine as Flight Simulation is a hobby of mine and it is the only Apple machine available that is capable of adding additional USB ports for my instrumentation without using a hub as they operate in real time. I have been unable to run the App and instrumentation, as all my free time is spent testing and troubleshooting this damn computer.

 

[macguru9999]

I wonder how many they have even sold in 2021.

 

[mattspace]

On the low end, the last Intel-based Mac Mini paired with a Blackmagic egpu beats the Mac Pro.

Unless your interest is driving displays.

 

[Average Pro]

Approaching a year with the 7,1 Mac Pro and (as stated in other posts) not a single problem. I attribute this to controlling the hardware and software.

In 2004, I transitioned to the Apple ecosystem because I was tired of my PC crashing every time I (1) updated the software (2) installed new hardware (3) installed the firmware for the new hardware (4) updated to the latest firmware for hardware already installed (5) magical/mystical lock ups and (6) random reboots.

Since 2004, I have not lost any data or had an unrecoverable system failure. I averaged 3-4 unexplained system reboots a year. I attribute this to barring 3rd party software from my computers, with the exception of Adobe, CCC, ColorFinale Pro and NIK Software. No 3rd party browsers. I am not saying that 3rd party soft/hardware and/or modifications are the cause for user issues, but I'm gonna stick with my luddite-style until a change is necessary.

- OS Big Sur 11.2.1
- AMD Radeon Pro W5700X

 

[MisterAndrew]

I think the price is the biggest issue for the 7,1. A 12 Core Lenovo ThinkStation P620 starts at $2099 and has more up to date hardware. Of course the 7,1 has a more premium case design, some special features like the MPX slots, and the USA labor to manufacture it is more expensive. I think the base model would be a better buy at $3-4k. The price isn't much of an issue for those who need it, but it is for those who want it.

 

[darthaddie]

I bought the Mac Pro 2019 in February 2020. The 12Core/96GB/Vega II/1Tb model. (RAM was upgraded after purchase). I totally love the machine. However, I had the opportunity to use Davinci Studio (My go to video editing system) on a Intel 10850K PC (5Ghz all cores) with a Nvidia 3080 GPU last week. I was blown away by the difference in performance. The PC could do realtime OpenFX Noise Reduction, Beauty Filter and a LUT all put together without the need for a render. Something impossible on even 2 Vega II's. I pushed my PC real hard and it beat the Mac Pro in almost every possible DaVinci Scenario. Footage is 4k 60 ProRes. Exporting H.265 and H.264 is also 1.5x to 2x faster. I have since moved my Video production to the PC and use the Mac only for photo editing now. Which is a bummer in some sense. I am seriously thinking of selling the Mac Pro, as even if I want to keep a Mac for Photo Edits, the M1 Mac mini does it pretty well.

I think the Mac Pro compared to hardware releases in 2020 has fallen a lot behind in terms of performance. It was rough working on Windows again, but having the ability to edit on the fly with various effects applied really gave me more creative freedom.

I dreaded pop ups on Windows all these years. Sadly the mac has as many popups and security notifications that it didn't feel that different using both systems this time.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

I love my 7,1. I bought one for work and personal use, replacing my iMac Pro which got me over the hump until the Mac Pro came out.

I haven't had any reliability problems, and I'm using a third party GPU and third party RAM. The performance is great and the price, while steep, is definitely worth the product.

It's a total hit for me too. But I got it super early, one of the first delivered so I've gotten a lot of use out of it and nothin really competes with it yet. That will change once the new apple chip machines come out, but the use has been great.

Also, it has improved a LOT with each upgrade of the OS. For example, being on the bleeding edge having gotten it in December of 2019, I threw in a Radeon Pro WX 9100 card in there to drive 6 30" cinema displays, and a High Point SSD7120 to drive a U.2 format NVMe Micron 15TB SSD.

Initially, if the machine went to sleep, the system would kernel panic hard randomly. Wasn't clear if it was the video card or the PCI/SSD card. So I had to set the machine to never sleep. Big Sur solved that problem (and for all I know it was fixed earlier) and it sleeps great.

My guess is the Mac Pro level replacement won't happen until 2022, and at that point I will be nearing nearly 3 years of time with this machine, which means it will have gotten a good run.

Yes, the machine is too expensive, and the PCI 3 parts are too old, but it was the best you could get from Apple. Hopefully the replacement will have a better price/benefit ratio, but in the mean time, if you got it early enough, it's a bit easier to justify the price across 3 years of use (if not more).

Oh and no way it compares to the cMP, particularly the 4,1 and 5,1 models. Those are the gold standard models of price/performance ratio--among the best machines Apple ever produced IMO.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

I agree I worded it poorly (sorry), but unfortunately it won't let me edit the responses now.

What I meant is -
A: Yes...it's been a hit
B: No...It's a been a miss (bombed)
or
C: You are not sure

You can ask a mod to edit for you.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

I purchased my MacPro Desktop last April with the Radion W5700X. I have cautiously had problems with it since I received it. I spend more time troubleshooting it than actually doing work on it. Apple support has been of little assistance constantly blaming it on everything other than the machine or 10.15.7. The primary issue has been when I shutdown the machine it hangs often with a kernel panic, and then when it restarts by itself or I restart it it shows a watchdog error. So far, despite sending in multiple diagnostics tests to support to forward them to engineering nothing useful has ever been communicated back to me. A month ago, Apple decided to replace the entire guts of the machine other than the RAM and the built in SSD, which I am not using for booting. That helped some of my lower priority GPU issues but has done nothing for the watchdog error which seems to be random as sometimes it does shutdown normally. While with the service provider they ran an extended and complete hardware diagnosis on it and found nothing wrong. The issue generally occurs only after at least 5 hours of runtime. That and recent corrupt of one of my 8TB drives in a Promise cage in a RAID 1 configuration that took all weekend to fix has made my life with this machine a living hell! Basically, Apple has left it up to me to figure out what is wrong with it. I have owned Apple computers since 1982 and this is absolutely the worst machine, I have ever experienced from them. If it was not for the hell and cost I would be experiencing to change platforms, migrate my data and replace all my Apps (300), it would be a no brainer to sell this monstrosity and replace it with a Linux or Windows machine. I purchased this caliber of machine as Flight Simulation is a hobby of mine and it is the only Apple machine available that is capable of adding additional USB ports for my instrumentation without using a hub as they operate in real time. I have been unable to run the App and instrumentation, as all my free time is spent testing and troubleshooting this damn computer.

Have you tried making a drive with Big Sur and running off it to see how it would work for you. Catalina really sucks in general IMO, and a bunch of my early problems were solved with the latest Big Sur. Sorry to hear of your problems with it, hope you get it figured out.

 

[Theophilos]

For me, it has been a hit for what I do. I’ve already started transitioning away from Adobe apps. When Affinity Publisher gains footnote support, there will be no reason for me to pay $30/mo. to Adobe for what is now essentially InDesign and Acrobat. I use the Affinity apps much more, and for me, Final Cut Pro and Motion, are great for video and motion graphics. It comes down to expandability when I think about it. Even my 2017 MacBook Pro performs well in things like 2D work and Final Cut Pro, but the ability to load my machine with NVME drives, capture cards, and multiple displays is great.

So great, in fact, that I got a second Mac Pro (8c, 64 GB RAM, 256 GB, 580x) at a really good price just for my video studio at home. I loaded it with a Decklink Quad HDMI for ingestion and a Sonnet 4x4 for extra storage. It also has 4 HDMI displays connected. I use it basically just for OBS to record videos for church.

I even have my old 2013 Mac Pro (self-upgraded 8C Xeon with 64 GB RAM) working perfectly in the studio, as well, so yes, while they are expensive machines, I feel they are reliable and worthwhile for me.

 

[innovaTutor]

I wrote a whole mountain of text out, but nobody really wants to read that stuff.

• I think it's an even worse buy for 3D work (CPU / GPU grunt per workstation or software license) because it's underpowered relative to the competition even when price isn't a factor, and worse when price *is* a factor. It's not Apple's design choices. They just bet on the wrong horses.

IMHO it looks like you have a great trove of wisdom to share. Is it about 3D work related topics (where Apple decided not to focus on)?
... anyhow, any links to that mountain of text you wrote?

(...) to work in Houdini and Octane
(...)
I ended up with a 32C TR machine with an RTX 3090. (...)

I guess RTX 3090 is a GPU not made by AMD ;-) but else no idea what you are talking about.
please elaborate.