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Mac Pro Performance Bottleneck

-BigMac-

-BigMac-

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Apr 15, 2011
2,493
2,859
Melbourne, Australia
Hi guys,
i have the stock 2.8 quad 2010 MP.
I've been playing some games (BFBC2, F1 2010, MW2 etc.) and ive seen there is some room for improvement in terms of performance.

I know upgrading the graphics card would significantly diminish this gap. But i'm curious, is the 3Gb 1066 RAM hindering the performance at all? Is it by much? Would increasing the RAM to sayy... 6gb or 9Gb increase the performance by much?

I'm running the games in W7 64Bit through Bootcamp..

Thanks a lot :)
 
Increasing the memory would help a LOT. Although there are some performance gains to be had for upgrading in balanced sets of ram (3 channels all the same for example), in most cases, more ram = better is true.

I would see if you can get 3x 2GB as the bare minimum. There are plenty of places on the web which will tell you the exact type of RAM you need for your MP. The recommended type will be DDR3 1333MHz ECC.
 
If you're worried about game performance, can you get a better GPU? That would make the biggest difference by far. Then, I'd also bump the RAM a bit.
 
The CPU is good, but more ram would help. 12gig is cheap. faster GPU with more memory also helps.
 
DanielCoffey said:
Increasing the memory would help a LOT. Although there are some performance gains to be had for upgrading in balanced sets of ram (3 channels all the same for example), in most cases, more ram = better is true.

I would see if you can get 3x 2GB as the bare minimum. There are plenty of places on the web which will tell you the exact type of RAM you need for your MP. The recommended type will be DDR3 1333MHz ECC.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot, my MP uses 1066.. if you replace all of the RAM in the MP can you switch it to 1333?

awer25 said:
If you're worried about game performance, can you get a better GPU? That would make the biggest difference by far. Then, I'd also bump the RAM a bit.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about the 6870.. but i am waiting until lion is out and see what i can really get (which is fully supported).. until then i want to upgrade the RAM.. once that is done i can get the best graphics card on the day :D

DanielCoffey said:
If you are running under Windows, the 3Gb RAM will be holding you back a lot.
Click to expand...

Do you know how much the windows system uses?
I would be curious to know how much ram in actually using for the dedicated running application (or i will check in activity monitor myself after? ) :)
nastymrx said:
The CPU is good, but more ram would help. 12gig is cheap. faster GPU with more memory also helps.
Click to expand...

12gb is cheap? I asked at the local store (not apple), and they said a 4gb ECC stick costs about $350.. that would mean like.. $1050 to get the 12gb ram. Do you know a cheaper way of getting my hands on some?
Thank you :)
 
Ah, I forgot you were on the base Nelahem 2010, so you are right, 1066 ECC ram. My apologies. It is the Westmere hexcore that uses 1333MHz.

Your cheapest option would be to buy 2x2Gb 1066 ECC and put a pair of your existing 1Gb apple sticks for a total of 6Gb. That would be sufficient for most needs.

If you can afford more, then either 4x2Gb or 2x4Gb plus 2x1Gb would be better.

So... DDR3, 1066MHz, ECC.

Hynix is a good brand by the way but that ebay link is for 1333MHz. There is no harm in paying the extra for it but it will down-clock itself to 1066MHz automatically. See if you can find a more economical 1066MHz seller.
 
I dont understand why he should save a few bucks mixing memory modules. Buy a 12gb kit!.
 
Looking at the system, it comes with 3 memory slots used. Crucial also recommends using 3 memory sticks. This may give the best performance.

I would recommend using 3 or 4 identical memory modules for best performance.

You would want at least 6GB total. It looks like 6GB (3*2GB) can be had for $100 and 12GB (3*4GB) can be had for $200. These are US dollar prices.
 
Instead of buying 2GB modules new, you should check ebay or whatever is convenient for used stuff.

Considering the extremely low prices of 4GB or even 8GB modules these days, a lot of people upgraded, which is why you can find used 2GB modules for almost nothing. There is a user here on the marketplace selling his 6 2GB sticks for 50 bucks. I'm pretty sure you can find such deals in Australia as well.
Even in Europe (which tends to be the priciest region) DDR3 memory is dirt cheap compared to one or two years ago, just check some stores or if money is really tight and 2GB modules suffice, buy used ones.
At any rate, 3GB isn't enough for anything these days. Chrome alone easily hits 3GB on my system. :rolleyes:
 
-BigMac- said:
Hi guys,
i have the stock 2.8 quad 2010 MP.
I've been playing some games (BFBC2, F1 2010, MW2 etc.) and ive seen there is some room for improvement in terms of performance.

I know upgrading the graphics card would significantly diminish this gap. But i'm curious, is the 3Gb 1066 RAM hindering the performance at all? Is it by much? Would increasing the RAM to sayy... 6gb or 9Gb increase the performance by much?

I'm running the games in W7 64Bit through Bootcamp..

Thanks a lot :)
Click to expand...
If your games were written in 32 bit code (from what I can tell, they are), then the max memory they'll be able to access is 4GB (and part of this is consumed by the OS itself, so they don't actually use all of it - figure about 2 - 2.25GB or so available for applications).

So the GPU is far more of an issue IMO (for gaming anyway).

In terms of a memory upgrade, you may need one for 64 bit applications you run under OS X or Windows (depending on the version of Win7 x64 <Ultimate, Enterprise,...>, it can address up to 192GB).
 
FWIW....

Going from Triple Channel to Dual channel equates to about squat in terms of end-user performance difference. It was more of an intel marketing scheme than anything. I'm running 4x4gb in my 2009MP and loving it... Beyond the need for a video card... Your machine is starving for RAM.

Here are a couple quick links... Bottom line.. If your looking for better synthetic benchmarks... then go triple channel... :cool:

http://www.overclock.net/intel-memory/681697-truth-about-i7-1366-memory-both.html

http://macperformanceguide.com/images/MacProWestmere2010/graph-memoryspeed-modules.gif
 
RAM doesn't matter with games now (3gb is more than enough FOR GAMES), you need a better GPU. That being said, RAM is so cheap, why not upgrade?
 
I don't know whether its the graphics, but on my MBP, upgrading from 4GB to 8GB ram improved performance by a good 5-6FPS consistently when running bootcamp, I would imagine that a MP running 3GB upgraded to say 6GB would see a noticeable performance also. I suspect though that a lot of the games I run are 64bit coded.
 
gullySn0wCat said:
RAM doesn't matter with games now (3gb is more than enough FOR GAMES), you need a better GPU. That being said, RAM is so cheap, why not upgrade?
Click to expand...

yea i know, the GPU will get upgraded soon :D as for the 3gb.. only like 2gb would be left for games though wouldnt it?

handheldgames said:
FWIW....

Going from Triple Channel to Dual channel equates to about squat in terms of end-user performance difference. It was more of an intel marketing scheme than anything. I'm running 4x4gb in my 2009MP and loving it... Beyond the need for a video card... Your machine is starving for RAM.

Here are a couple quick links... Bottom line.. If your looking for better synthetic benchmarks... then go triple channel... :cool:

http://www.overclock.net/intel-memory/681697-truth-about-i7-1366-memory-both.html

http://macperformanceguide.com/images/MacProWestmere2010/graph-memoryspeed-modules.gif
Click to expand...

the second link is very good, the difference is actually very small for triple channel.. i think i will not care much about triple or dual, more so i am looking at getting the most amount of ram in the cheapest way. Having said that... the difference in those benchmarks were like.. 2.5% just based on the fact it was in triple and not dual.. thats quite a lot for nothing :p

Bear said:
Looking at the system, it comes with 3 memory slots used. Crucial also recommends using 3 memory sticks. This may give the best performance.

I would recommend using 3 or 4 identical memory modules for best performance.

You would want at least 6GB total. It looks like 6GB (3*2GB) can be had for $100 and 12GB (3*4GB) can be had for $200. These are US dollar prices.
Click to expand...

Those prices are very good, i had a look here on eBay and found some cheaper prices. Here is one i would ike.. curiously though it doesnt have my model number (2.8 2010).. it hsould work though ye?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Apple-Ma...s_Apple_Parts_Accessories&hash=item255a8b6a94

nastymrx said:
I dont understand why he should save a few bucks mixing memory modules. Buy a 12gb kit!.
Click to expand...

That would be a 3x4gb kit? I think right now that sounds about right for what i will be needing in the future.. im gonna start using CAD programs next year as part of my course (aerospace engineering) the 12gb would help a fair bit?

DanielCoffey said:
Ah, I forgot you were on the base Nelahem 2010, so you are right, 1066 ECC ram. My apologies. It is the Westmere hexcore that uses 1333MHz.

Your cheapest option would be to buy 2x2Gb 1066 ECC and put a pair of your existing 1Gb apple sticks for a total of 6Gb. That would be sufficient for most needs.

If you can afford more, then either 4x2Gb or 2x4Gb plus 2x1Gb would be better.

So... DDR3, 1066MHz, ECC.

Hynix is a good brand by the way but that ebay link is for 1333MHz. There is no harm in paying the extra for it but it will down-clock itself to 1066MHz automatically. See if you can find a more economical 1066MHz seller.
Click to expand...

I will definitely look around :) is there a way of making the MP use the 1333 freq.? I owned a MacBook white a few months back (among the many other mbps and imacs), and it was running at 1333 even though it was only allowed to technically run at 1066. I bought it second hand off a guy... could that mean theres a way of making it run quicker?

philipma1957 said:
I see you are in Aussie land. here is an ebay link for you



http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/8-GB-2-X..._Components&hash=item35a40bdfd2#ht_2475wt_907


two 4gb sticks are 199. these are the same as what is in my 2010 mac pro by the way they are a lot more then usa prices. but far better then your store
Click to expand...

I had a look and thats a 1333, mines 1066. Looking around though, that 1333 is actually cheaper than the 8gb 1066'ers.. weird...

you39 said:
Don't ever go there again.

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/85MP3W4M12GK/
Click to expand...

Those prices sound really good! even with the conversion :p
But i will just be looking within Australia for the items.. they are a lot more scarce over here than in the US i think. I asked at my flagship Apple store how many MPs they sell a year. they said 15-20 lol... Its 2nd biggest Apple store in Australia.. :(
 
252579_10150260531955862_563490861_9319274_3118229_n.jpg


Only 2Gb ram left
 
Yes, that 2x4Gb 1033MHz kit you have posted is the correct sort for your MP. You could pop two of your original sticks in the other slots for a total of 10Gb which is plenty for now. If you start using the MP more for work in the future you could always buy two more 4Gbs or go the whole hog with a set of 8Gbs at the time when prices have dropped.

I do not believe you can get memory running at 1333 in your MP without doing processor upgrades to the Westmere hex-core chips but other tech folks may correct me.

As for the GPU, I assume you have the 5770 card so your only "official" upgrade is the Apple 5870. There are many threads about buying PC cards of certain types and flashing them. Just make sure you know your MP can deliver the power the card needs as some require a second PSU fitted into the optical drive bay. There are plenty of threads discussing flashing the cards.
 
Crysis 1 (THE most demanding game) uses up around a gig of RAM if you have a 1gb graphics card. TBH a lot of the work RAM used to do up until a few years ago is handled on the GPU side now that ~1-2gb video cards are standard.

/E @DanielCoffey

NO NO NO, the 5870 is the best card MPs can use at the moment (there are no drivers for 6950/70/90) and doesn't need a backup PSU. Plz do some research if you are going to be giving people advice.
 
-BigMac- said:
I had a look and thats a 1333, mines 1066. Looking around though, that 1333 is actually cheaper than the 8gb 1066'ers.. weird...



1333 RAM works fine I have a 2.8 with 1333 in it the ram just downclocks to 1066. I could give a long explanation but the short one is the speed lost is about 1- 2% max. putting 1333 in your machine is perfectly fine to do as long as it makes economical sense. I.E. the 1333 costs less just do it.


:(
Click to expand...

as an aside about a year after I purchased my 2.8 2010 I did a great upgrade.


https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1122551/



I put in the 3.2 hex which uses 1066 max, but if in a year you put the 3.33 or 3.46 hex in it will use the 1333 ram. So using 1333 ram is not a problem.
 
Gaming needs all the upgrades for best results.

I play WoW in OS X all performance gains are useful up to a point.
I started out with 2 GB RAM in an 8 core MP, 512 mb 8800GT and with a single 320 gb HDD. It worked but slowdowns occurred frequently over time.
Each upgrade I did improved matters dramatically:
First came an extra 8 GB RAM, no more CPU bottlenecks in WoW (total system usage 3-5 GB just the OS and WoW). Even though WoW only wants just under 1 GB for itself..... :eek:
I bumped it up to 16 GB of RAM and nothing changed in WoW but the GF's Photoshop work loved it. :)
Next an upgrade to a 1 GB Sapphire 4870 Vapor-X GFX card, suddenly no more freezing on busy pyrotechnics in battles.
Then extra HDD room, virtual memory grew to take advantage (134 GB these days with backups running in the background).
Then a 1 GB Sapphire 5870 Vapor-X GFX card, WoW running at 60 fps everywhere.
Finally a 128 GB SSD for the OS and games folder. Boot times quartered and zones loading in a fifth of the time. :D
Every aspect being optimised helps, the weakest link will always show up.
 
Last edited:
Key things to consider, probably in this order...

- In Windows 3GB is too little. 6GB is probably just right but you may want to jump directly to 12GB. I wouldn't worry about 1066 vs 1333... just get what's cheapest from a reputable dealer/vendor. If you're upgrading all sticks, just stay with tri-channel... no need to force it to dual channel.
- You can never have enough GPU for gaming unless your monitor is small - in which case you've got two problems :p
- An SSD probably won't impact game play that much but would make a world of difference to starting the games, loading maps, and the overall performance of your system for other tasks.
 
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