Mac Studio M1 Ultra vs M1 Max

[UnifiedMelody]

Context [What do I want to use this Mac Studio for?]:
Majority Photo Editing [I'm just proficient in this sector]
Minority Video Editing for now {may do more later down the line as I get more experienced as I would want to add more video services later down the line}
Internet Browsing [duh]
Website Development [minor, not major 3D].

So I'm dead set on the Mac Studio as it's been the thing I've so much waited for, a tiny/smol block smaller than my current pc, yet housing components that exceed the performance of my PC at lower wattage use overall.

However the issue is, this is my VERY FIRST MAC [i do not have macbook pro/air, iMac, MacPro etc] i'm buying into the apple ecosystem for my very first time for the Mac Section. I do have an iPhone so I'm familiar with iOS and such but obviously macOS will be a slight learning curve so I'm prepared for that.

Main question as below in numbers (I noticed Apple made it easy to just select):

[disclaimer i know the 64Core M1 ultra is out of the equation as i don't do extreme 3D rendering and its 1350$ extra for more Gpu cores]. so its a toss up between 24 core gpu m1 max and 48 core gpu m1 ultra

1. 128GB RAM vs 64GB Ram. Is MacOS very efficient with ram such that it's nearly overkill for extra RAM? [in relation to M1 Ultra Chip].
2. Based on the above do you think I could possibly get away with the M1 Max? Or just go f**k it and go straight for M1 Ultra and don't look back.
3. Storage wise I'm happy to daisychain an external SSD/HDD since there's many ports available as I'm using bluetooth/wireless keyboard and trackpad. 2TB or 4TB? My current PC using approx 800GB of SSD and that's over many years of accumulation [3-5 years ish of work].

Thank you for your help. If my question isn't clear then please let me know and I'll try to re-clarify/re-word wher appropriate.

 

[dandeco]

For your tastes, I'd look at the M1 Max version, configured with a 1 TB SSD, and you can also configure it with 64 GB of RAM, but you should be able to get away with only 32 GB of RAM. (I'm planning to later get such a model to replace my 2012 quad-core i7 Mac Mini with 16 GB of RAM).

 

[UnifiedMelody]

For your tastes, I'd look at the M1 Max version, configured with a 1 TB SSD, and you can also configure it with 64 GB of RAM, but you should be able to get away with only 32 GB of RAM. (I'm planning to later get such a model to replace my 2012 quad-core i7 Mac Mini with 16 GB of RAM).

Perfect thank you very much for the insight... almost flinged towards M1 Ultra impulsively. it was pretty tempting considering pc components added up still can't match the base model

 

[Ifti]

Most people go for the M1 Ultra because its the latest and greatest - they get caught into the marketing hype. The fact of the matter is, most won't even fully utilise the M1 Max chip let alone the M1 Ultra. I's say if you were into 3D rendering and very intensive applications, then yes the M1 Ultra would help. Otherwise the M1 Max is more the capable, and is a beast of a chip in its own right. For your uses, I'd say the M1 Max is more then enough - you won't even touch anywhere near its limits most of the time.

Storage depends on how much data you have - typically I go with 1TB even though most of my data is stored on external TB3 SSDs. For you, I'd go with 1TB as a minimum.

RAM - with all the money you saved from sticking with the M1 Max, put it towards some RAM. I'd go with 64GB to future proof yourself somewhat.

I currently have a 2019 MacBook Pro 16, i9 CPU, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD. Always used on my desk at home.
I know everyone is jumping for the latest and greatest Max Studio now, but I still intend to move to the M1 Max MacBook Pro 16. As I said, its still a beast of a machine - I just don't fancy having to buy the monitor etc separately with a Mac Studio - I like working from a laptop instead!

 

[Sirmausalot]

Perfect thank you very much for the insight... almost flinged towards M1 Ultra impulsively. it was pretty tempting considering pc components added up still can't match the base model

64gb RAM is probably a waste of money, but I would upgrade the SSD to 1tb.

 

[UnifiedMelody]

Most people go for the M1 Ultra because its the latest and greatest - they get caught into the marketing hype. The fact of the matter is, most won't even fully utilise the M1 Max chip let alone the M1 Ultra. I's say if you were into 3D rendering and very intensive applications, then yes the M1 Ultra would help. Otherwise the M1 Max is more the capable, and is a beast of a chip in its own right. For your uses, I'd say the M1 Max is more then enough - you won't even touch anywhere near its limits most of the time.

Storage depends on how much data you have - typically I go with 1TB even though most of my data is stored on external TB3 SSDs. For you, I'd go with 1TB as a minimum.

RAM - with all the money you saved from sticking with the M1 Max, put it towards some RAM. I'd go with 64GB to future proof yourself somewhat.

I currently have a 2019 MacBook Pro 16, i9 CPU, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD. Always used on my desk at home.
I know everyone is jumping for the latest and greatest Max Studio now, but I still intend to move to the M1 Max MacBook Pro 16. As I said, its still a beast of a machine - I just don't fancy having to buy the monitor etc separately with a Mac Studio - I like working from a laptop instead!

1. I've solidified down to 2TB SSD at least for current/actual work and programs, and my 4TB external SSD && 8TB HDD will sit outside linked/connected for dumping/archive. The leap to 4TB and 8TB is impressive for a tiny system but just way too much $$ imo just for storage which isn't going to improve my performance in a real world perspective [photos don't even come close to crippling the ssd in anyway]. and minor video use would not spell much

It is fast SSD not going to lie Apple did an amazing job with speed, but I've been happier with SATA SSD's speed overall even for basic photo editing so at this point it's more than fine just to load up programs and current-workfiles only onto it [and pull out/unload to external drives when not in current use]

2. Yeah I'm thinking M1 Max more now that I've seen some videos today in the morning, taking into serious account Macs utilize/optimize power/performance very well in comparison to PC so one can get away with less rather than more.

3. Ram wise i'll stick to 64GB since that's what i currently run on my pc. never hit the ram limit [around 40GB intensively] so mac should be far less given the headroom but i don't want to risk chancing it. so ill go 64GB on this one.

 

[UnifiedMelody]

64gb RAM is probably a waste of money, but I would upgrade the SSD to 1tb.

yea i have seen his latest video today regarding m1 ultra's real benchmarking performance not being fully utilized [for now] in the gpu space...
so im more inclined to the M1 max [taking into account Apple's efficiency/prowess over Windows hog]

ssd im going to be at least 2tb bare minimum.

 

[HDFan]

2TB or 4TB?

Minority Video Editing for now {may do more later down the line as I get more experienced as I would want to add more video services later down the line}

$$ imo just for storage which isn't going to improve my performance in a real world perspective

Storage speed probably won't make much difference with photos if you are using something like Lightroom with the catalogue on the SSD and reference files on a fast external thunderbolt RAID drive. No data to confirm that yet though.

Video is a completely different kettle of fish. Max Tech shows an SSD transfer rate of 5.850.4/4.367.4 GB/s write/read/. Thunderbolt maximum is 40 Gbs, or ~5 GB/s, but that is a theoretical speed that you are very unlikely to get with overhead. Any external storage device will be bottle necked by the thunderbolt connection to that speed even if the device is faster than 5 GB/s. External disks will be much slower. An 8 disk based RAID 5 will only give you ~1.500 GBs. I/O is just one potential bottle neck for video editing, along with cpu, gpu, etc., but being able to put everything on an internal SSD would eliminate one potential bottleneck. Just guessing, of course, until someone runs the tests.

 

[mikehalloran]

The max transfer rate from a TB3 external is 2,800 due to the 4 lane limitation of the pipe—nothing currently is faster. TB4 is a red herring as it allows multiple TB3 devices but doesn’t make anything faster. 2 or 4 NVMe blades in a housing is a little slower—RAID 0 does not really double speed—but no one will notice—and you still have the limitation of the pipe.

The internal transfer of the 2-blade internal is rated at 7,000 (single-blade machines such as the MBAir and Mini are rated 3,600). Why anyone would cripple the speed of the Studio by using external storage for anything except archival and Time Machine is beyond me.

There is no need to listen to anyone who has posted on how much internal storage you need since you haven't told us how much content you produce. They are guessing blind.

I’ll tell you that I generate about .5TB of AV a week and often have to open older projects to re-edit for other markets. I archive projects once they are done to TB drives which takes time but when I have to bring them back, it takes more time. I’m straining the capacity of my 4TB 18 Core iMac Pro — if I could have bought one with 8TB, it would make my life easier. Yes, I could get the $2,800 8TB Apple Mac Pro SSD kit and have it installed (another $300) into my iMac Pro but I’ll buy an 8TB Studio instead.

It costs $2,400 to upgrade the 512 Studio to 8TB; $2,200 for the 1TB version. Quite reasonable for what you get. I don’t know if the $2,800 Apple kit will upgrade the Studio but there are armchair experts who insist you can—no one has done it, yet, however so I don’t know that they’re right or wrong.

Again, I don’t know how much internal storage you need but now is when it’s cheapest To buy

Although my iMP has 128GB discrete RAM, 64GB Unified is probably way overkill for my current needs … but what about the future?

The least powerful M1 Max GPU kicks major butt on my Vega 64x but my Vega is fast enough for my needs (ok… faster will be nice). My reservation about the Ultra is not the price—it’s the heat. The ultra uses a copper heat sink that weighs 2 lb more than the aluminum sink for the Max. I’ve no doubt all that copper keeps the chip cool but that heat has to dissipate to somewhere and I don’t want it in my studio. Max it is.

I’m using published specs. Real world numbers are never as fast but these are useful for comparison.

 

[Basic75]

If I were you I'd get the M1 Max with 64GB. You don't want the machine to not have enough RAM a couple of years down the line. Given that you do graphics stuff I'd probably get the 32 core GPU. Internal storage is not so important since you can add reasonably fast external storage, I'd probably go with 1 or 2 TB.

 

[HDFan]

My reservation about the Ultra is not the price—it’s the heat.

Max Tech's video goes over power consumption which I will equate to heat. The equivalent numbers for the Ultra are below what you see on your iMac Pro. I've running a render right now on an 18 core iMac Pro at ~2600% cpu and it's taking ~240 watts and fans running at 1800. He has a number of tests on an ultra studio with fans at the baseline 1300 rpm taking under 60 watts - almost 4 times less power, although his metering software is custom so not exactly sure what it measures.

Ultra studo should turn your studio into a freezer. (?)

 

[mikehalloran]

Max Tech's video goes over power consumption which I will equate to heat. The equivalent numbers for the Ultra are below what you see on your iMac Pro. I've running a render right now on an 18 core iMac Pro at ~2600% cpu and it's taking ~240 watts and fans running at 1800. He has a number of tests on an ultra studio with fans at the baseline 1300 rpm taking under 60 watts - almost 4 times less power, although his metering software is custom so not exactly sure what it measures.

Ultra studo should turn your studio into a freezer. (?)

Way cool? Ha!

Thanks for that. It’s the first review that addresses my concerns. Now my only issue is timing: how/when to sell my iMP and get one of these bad boys.

Hubba hubba!

 

[mikehalloran]

If I were you I'd get the M1 Max with 64GB. You don't want the machine to not have enough RAM a couple of years down the line. Given that you do graphics stuff I'd probably get the 32 core GPU. Internal storage is not so important since you can add reasonably fast external storage, I'd probably go with 1 or 2 TB.

The fastest external storage is about 1/3 the speed of internal storage. On the rare occasions that I tweak older projects on my external drive, it feels like swimming in molasses compared to bringing it back onto the internal drive first.

An 8TB Thunderblade from OWC costs $1,999. Upgrading the internal storage to 8TB adds $2,200 to the 1TB build; $2,400 to the 512GB version. My Studio will have 8TB onboard.

 

[UnifiedMelody]

Way cool? Ha!

Thanks for that. It’s the first review that addresses my concerns. Now my only issue is timing: how/when to sell my iMP and get one of these bad boys.

Hubba hubba!

if you customise it in anyway for ram especially... expect at least 10-12 weeks wait from what i've seen. at least apple is giving me a worst case timeframe which is better than being left in the dark with an early date and then still waiting.

 

[UnifiedMelody]

Max Tech's video goes over power consumption which I will equate to heat. The equivalent numbers for the Ultra are below what you see on your iMac Pro. I've running a render right now on an 18 core iMac Pro at ~2600% cpu and it's taking ~240 watts and fans running at 1800. He has a number of tests on an ultra studio with fans at the baseline 1300 rpm taking under 60 watts - almost 4 times less power, although his metering software is custom so not exactly sure what it measures.

Ultra studo should turn your studio into a freezer. (?)

from my initial tests i never felt the M1 ultra got very hot behind the back vent during multiple rendering and exporting of pro res 422hq sample clips... and fans were so quiet/inaudible that was absolute nuts.

my pc would unnecessarily ramp up fans up to 90% and it assumes the parts will go up to 80-90*c... x_x
mac [studio] felt like it would sit at 30-40*c while doing all of the above which is why i have high hopes for this over their macbook pros

 

[UnifiedMelody]

If I were you I'd get the M1 Max with 64GB. You don't want the machine to not have enough RAM a couple of years down the line. Given that you do graphics stuff I'd probably get the 32 core GPU. Internal storage is not so important since you can add reasonably fast external storage, I'd probably go with 1 or 2 TB.

That's right I have multiple external hdd and ssd's for the purpose of dumping and lighter work... so i'm certainly inclined to sit on 2TB for the Studio just for safety [i think 1tb is too small considering my current nvme-SSD's in my pc is nearing 900GB already], more than enough for apple programs and some bits of current Video and Photos. the leap to 4/8Tb is pretty high lol [while yes i'm aware one cant compare external ssd speed to internal apple ssd due to size and efficiency]. i didnt see much benefit going that high just for 'storage/dumping'.

photos wise i'm more than happy with baseline SATA SSD [550/520MB/s R/W] to be realistic. the NVMe while nice and fast i dont really notice the speeds in real world use other than transferring files off card to PC [as of now] and copying files from nvme to nvme.

 

[mikehalloran]

if you customise it in anyway for ram especially... expect at least 10-12 weeks wait from what i've seen. at least apple is giving me a worst case timeframe which is better than being left in the dark with an early date and then still waiting.

At the moment, Apple will allow a trade-in value of $3,808 on my iMac Pro — about $1,000 less than I can realize right now on eBay after fees etc. I imagine that, by the time anything I order ships, that $1K will evaporate.

If I put it on the Apple Card with payments, they'll give me the trade-in credit now and allow me to ship it after the new one arrives. Yes, I know that the bottom line isn't as nice but it's a very tempting offer.

 

[Sirmausalot]

Storage speed probably won't make much difference with photos if you are using something like Lightroom with the catalogue on the SSD and reference files on a fast external thunderbolt RAID drive. No data to confirm that yet though.

Video is a completely different kettle of fish. Max Tech shows an SSD transfer rate of 5.850.4/4.367.4 GB/s write/read/. Thunderbolt maximum is 40 Gbs, or ~5 GB/s, but that is a theoretical speed that you are very unlikely to get with overhead. Any external storage device will be bottle necked by the thunderbolt connection to that speed even if the device is faster than 5 GB/s. External disks will be much slower. An 8 disk based RAID 5 will only give you ~1.500 GBs. I/O is just one potential bottle neck for video editing, along with cpu, gpu, etc., but being able to put everything on an internal SSD would eliminate one potential bottleneck. Just guessing, of course, until someone runs the tests.

Most video editors, myself included, always put media on external storage for myriad reasons.

 

[Sirmausalot]

At the moment, Apple will allow a trade-in value of $3,808 on my iMac Pro — about $1,000 less than I can realize right now on eBay after fees etc. I imagine that, by the time anything I order ships, that $1K will evaporate.

If I put it on the Apple Card with payments, they'll give me the trade-in credit now and allow me to ship it after the new one arrives. Yes, I know that the bottom line isn't as nice but it's a very tempting offer.

I did a trade in with my MacBook Pro and it was far easier than selling. Small bonus, they refunded the tax, so that's a real benefit as well.

 

[darngooddesign]

Context [What do I want to use this Mac Studio for?]:
Majority Photo Editing [I'm just proficient in this sector]
Minority Video Editing for now {may do more later down the line as I get more experienced as I would want to add more video services later down the line}
Internet Browsing [duh]
Website Development [minor, not major 3D].

So I'm dead set on the Mac Studio as it's been the thing I've so much waited for, a tiny/smol block smaller than my current pc, yet housing components that exceed the performance of my PC at lower wattage use overall.

However the issue is, this is my VERY FIRST MAC [i do not have macbook pro/air, iMac, MacPro etc] i'm buying into the apple ecosystem for my very first time for the Mac Section. I do have an iPhone so I'm familiar with iOS and such but obviously macOS will be a slight learning curve so I'm prepared for that.

Main question as below in numbers (I noticed Apple made it easy to just select):

[disclaimer i know the 64Core M1 ultra is out of the equation as i don't do extreme 3D rendering and its 1350$ extra for more Gpu cores]. so its a toss up between 24 core gpu m1 max and 48 core gpu m1 ultra

1. 128GB RAM vs 64GB Ram. Is MacOS very efficient with ram such that it's nearly overkill for extra RAM? [in relation to M1 Ultra Chip].
2. Based on the above do you think I could possibly get away with the M1 Max? Or just go f**k it and go straight for M1 Ultra and don't look back.
3. Storage wise I'm happy to daisychain an external SSD/HDD since there's many ports available as I'm using bluetooth/wireless keyboard and trackpad. 2TB or 4TB? My current PC using approx 800GB of SSD and that's over many years of accumulation [3-5 years ish of work].

Thank you for your help. If my question isn't clear then please let me know and I'll try to re-clarify/re-word wher appropriate.

You do not need the M1-Ultra version, and you re liklelty fine with the base Max processor.

PSD does not require less RAM so first determine how much your current computer needs for the size of your PSD files. Secondly, the RAM is also used as VRAM so if you might need more if you have like three displays.

But I'm guessing the base Studio with 64GB RAM and a 1TB drive is probably what you want.

PS. Something interesting from MaxTech's MBP tests was that the 10/24 Max was almost as fast as the 10/32 due to the 10/32 running at a little lower clock speed; this might also be why the Max MBPs have high-power mode. He speculated that it was to control heat so this may not be the case in the Studio desktops.

 

[danqi]

The fastest external storage is about 1/3 the speed of internal storage. On the rare occasions that I tweak older projects on my external drive, it feels like swimming in molasses compared to bringing it back onto the internal drive first.

An 8TB Thunderblade from OWC costs $1,999. Upgrading the internal storage to 8TB adds $2,200 to the 1TB build; $2,400 to the 512GB version. My Studio will have 8TB onboard.

Most video editors, myself included, always put media on external storage for myriad reasons.

This issue is super interesting to me. I have always operated under the belief that it is best to physically separate system, scratch and media disks.

I have not yet ordered my Mac Studio but was planning to attach 2 individual external NVME SSDs to it. One for media and one as a scratch/cache disk.

Now I am wondering if my approach might be outdated?

But having everything on the system disk just feels... wrong.

 

[darngooddesign]

This issue is super interesting to me. I have always operated under the belief that it is best to physically separate system, scratch and media disks.

I have not yet ordered my Mac Studio but was planning to attach 2 individual external NVME SSDs to it. One for media and one as a scratch/cache disk.

Now I am wondering if my approach might be outdated?

But having everything on the system disk just feels... wrong.

If the app loads your assets into RAM then you can keep internal for scratch and external for project files.

 

[mikehalloran]

If the app loads your assets into RAM then you can keep internal for scratch and external for project files.

You're entitled to that opinion but my work gets done more quickly if I ignore that. VI load times, bounce to disk and most importantly, AV rendering are a lot faster when all of my work files are on internal storage. Any time I want to test that, it's easy: working on an older project sitting on my TB3 external feels like swimming in molasses compared to bringing it back onboard first. The absolute fastest external storage is about 1/3 the speed of internal on a Mac and until Apple goes to a new Thunderbolt spec, that will not change. That may be fast enough for you but it isn't for me.

Many of my clients need projects to be reworked up to a year or so after initial delivery, other markets, edits for time etc. so I will keep some things onboard for a long time. Offloading and loading back in takes time, too—time that is saved by having as much internal storage as possible. Then there's the 3.5TB of VIs that I have. I don't like the wait times that sometimes occur when I initialize from external drives.

Although I can upgrade the internal storage on my iMac Pro to 8TB, the SSD kit is $2,800 plus tax and labor. I'd much rather apply that money to a new Studio—and I will. Apple will give me $3,808 for the one that I have now as-is, about what I would realize after eBay fees etc. so I will likely go for that.

Time=$$$ in many businesses and I figure that a Studio with 8TB onboard will allow me to get in another project per week. If I could get in another project every 2 weeks, the Studio will pay for itself in 3–4 months. Scrimping on internal storage will cost more than it saves.

 

[darngooddesign]

You're entitled to that opinion but my work gets done more quickly if I ignore that. VI load times, bounce to disk and most importantly, AV rendering are a lot faster when all of my work files are on internal storage. Any time I want to test that, it's easy: working on an older project sitting on my TB3 external feels like swimming in molasses compared to bringing it back onboard first. The absolute fastest external storage is about 1/3 the speed of internal on a Mac and until Apple goes to a new Thunderbolt spec, that will not change. That may be fast enough for you but it isn't for me.

Many of my clients need projects to be reworked up to a year or so after initial delivery, other markets, edits for time etc. so I will keep some things onboard for a long time. Offloading and loading back in takes time, too—time that is saved by having as much internal storage as possible. Then there's the 3.5TB of VIs that I have. I don't like the wait times that sometimes occur when I initialize from external drives.

Although I can upgrade the internal storage on my iMac Pro to 8TB, the SSD kit is $2,800 plus tax and labor. I'd much rather apply that money to a new Studio—and I will. Apple will give me $3,808 for the one that I have now as-is, about what I would realize after eBay fees etc. so I will likely go for that.

Time=$$$ in many businesses and I figure that a Studio with 8TB onboard will allow me to get in another project per week. If I could get in another project every 2 weeks, the Studio will pay for itself in 3–4 months. Scrimping on internal storage will cost more than it saves.

All very interesting and it makes sense. Big instal storage is obviously the way to go for you.