Mac Studio, Pro, or nothing?

[jazzerd8]

Hey all, been anxiously awaiting news of the Mac Pro for almost a year since my 2017 retina iMac is beginning to have trouble with certain functions. To my surprise we saw the Mac Pro announced, but to my dismay you can’t add RAM yourself, which is where the savings is.

So now I am likely going with the maxed out Mac Studio but it is so expensive man! And it pisses me off that Apple screws you by not including ANYTHING with it, not even a freakin mouse! Apple abandoned target display mode so we can’t use the 2017 iMac as a monitor either, so there’s more $$.

I paid $3k for a pretty maxed out iMac in 2017 and wish they had another 27” iMac now bc this one will be $7k plus the monitor. Crazy $, and yes I need it for production work. So I’m conflicted both ethically and financially and also concerned they will release the iMac or a cheaper alternative in 6 months. I know the Studio will be blazing but damn, we are getting nailed and blackballed by Apple continuously upselling by way of discontinuing.

What are you all doing, esp people in my situation? Thanks!!

 

[JamesMay82]

I'm general office and admin programs but only use Final Cut Pro once a month for just 1080p footage of 20 min interviews etc. so quite basic and my 2014 27 iMac with 8 gig can still do all that fine but it does struggle if I use 4k footage.

But I'm like you as every upgrade option for me Is crazy expensive! I'm going to hold out for a 27 inch iMac but I doubt it will come though and then plan b is MacBook Pro 16 inch 32 gig ram, 2tb hard drive and then a studio display. I work from my home office but will be nice to have laptop so I can use it in living room as well I think.

Plan C is a studio display and a Mac studio and keeping using my iPad Pro round the house

 

[Toutou]

I'm general office and admin programs but only use Final Cut Pro once a month for just 1080p footage of 20 min interviews etc. so quite basic

every upgrade option for me Is crazy expensive!

I don’t understand, you’re accurately calling your usage “basic” and then deciding the 16” Pro or the Studio are your upgrade paths and complaining that they’re expensive? Sounds like a Mini or the new 15 inch Air would work fine for you and save you some money.

 

[jazzerd8]

I don’t understand, you’re accurately calling your usage “basic” and then deciding the 16” Pro or the Studio are your upgrade paths and complaining that they’re expensive? Sounds like a Mini or the new 15 inch Air would work fine for you and save you some money.

You are prob correct he would be ok with those two options, but let's be clear, the pro and studio ARE expensive and literally everyone on the forums are saying it as well.

 

[JamesMay82]

I don’t understand, you’re accurately calling your usage “basic” and then deciding the 16” Pro or the Studio are your upgrade paths and complaining that they’re expensive? Sounds like a Mini or the new 15 inch Air would work fine for you and save you some money.

Yes correct! I keep forgetting about the new 15 air.. I was only saying 16 because I wanted the larger size screen.

 

[Tdude96]

In much the same position as you, 2017 27" iMac which I've effectively maxed out. It's still a good machine, but just doesn't cut it against what I do on it anymore. I've also been holding out hope for an Apple Silicon 27" iMac.

In the meantime I've passed off things that just run better on AS to my M2 Air, which mostly does the trick (although I may have overtaxed that resource - just sent it in for repairs).

I keep considering a Studio, but haven't pulled the trigger on it. Between not being able to upgrade RAM myself and needing to also purchase an equivalent external monitor, it's a lot of investment all in one chunk. I may try to eke out another year on the Intel iMac to see if they introduce 27" AS iMacs, which would be a Day 1 purchase for me, or buy a refurb M2/new M3 Studio at that time.

 

[iSuzan]

I don’t believe a new iMac 27’ with Apple Silicon will come. And even if … it would be MUCH more expensive as your old one. And of course also no upgradable RAM.

But yes - it is a shame we can’t use our old iMacs as display. But times changed, you have to live with it. I sold my 2019 iMac 27’.
Now I own an Apple Studio Display and a Mac Mini M2 Pro. And this machine is much better and faster and more silent. Much more silent than my old iMac where the fan was sooooooooooo loud and soooooo often running.

 

[jazzerd8]

In much the same position as you, 2017 27" iMac which I've effectively maxed out. It's still a good machine, but just doesn't cut it against what I do on it anymore. I've also been holding out hope for an Apple Silicon 27" iMac.

In the meantime I've passed off things that just run better on AS to my M2 Air, which mostly does the trick (although I may have overtaxed that resource - just sent it in for repairs).

I keep considering a Studio, but haven't pulled the trigger on it. Between not being able to upgrade RAM myself and needing to also purchase an equivalent external monitor, it's a lot of investment all in one chunk. I may try to eke out another year on the Intel iMac to see if they introduce 27" AS iMacs, which would be a Day 1 purchase for me, or buy a refurb M2/new M3 Studio at that time.

Nice! Trouble is I’m doubtful I can wait a year and we never know if a new iMac will be introduced. This creates a “riskier” investment not knowing and potentially paying more

 

[jazzerd8]

I don’t believe a new iMac 27’ with Apple Silicon will come. And even if … it would be MUCH more expensive as your old one. And of course also no upgradable RAM.

But yes - it is a shame we can’t use our old iMacs as display. But times changed, you have to live with it. I sold my 2019 iMac 27’.
Now I own an Apple Studio Display and a Mac Mini M2 Pro. And this machine is much better and faster and more silent. Much more silent than my old iMac where the fan was sooooooooooo loud and soooooo often running.

I agree it will be more $, but doubtful it will come close to the $8k maxing out the studio. However, I am happy to hear it is way quieter since I do music production (despite the reported squealing) lol. The Mac mini won’t cut it for my needs

 

[theluggage]

Hey all, been anxiously awaiting news of the Mac Pro for almost a year since my 2017 retina iMac is beginning to have trouble with certain functions. To my surprise we saw the Mac Pro announced, but to my dismay you can’t add RAM yourself, which is where the savings is.

First: do you need a machine with internal PCIe slots? (Almost certainly no if you're currently using an iMac). If "no" then there is absolutely no reason to consider the Mac Pro.

Second: I switched from a 2017 i7/4.2GHz/Radeon 580/1TB SSD to a M1 Max Studio (base + 1TB) and am perfectly happy with the performance upgrade - I'd say its the "modern equivalent" of the higher-end iMac (the M2 Max should be even better) - and going to a Mx Ultra processor would be a substantial trade-up, more akin to the mid-range iMac Pro, and I think the only reason you'd need that would be if you really, really needed more than 96GB of RAM.

User-upgradeable RAM ain't coming back, I'm afraid, and Apple charges as much as they can get away with, plus the 96GB limit of the M2 Max is a hard limit - so you need to decide whether you really need 128GB (?) RAM in that iMac or just maxed it out because it was too cheap to sweat over... Run some tests, pull half the RAM (or make a big RAM disk) and look at the Memory Pressure (not 'RAM used' - MacOS will try to 'use' everything it is given) in Activity Monitor before buying a M2 Ultra that you don't need.

Keyboard/Mouse: OK, subjective opinion but I'd pay Apple not to include a Tragic Mouse and Keyboard. You can have my old Apple aluminium wired KB/Num Pad and MX Master from my cold, dead (but surprisingly RSI-free) fingers. Meanwhile, your iMac ones will work fin unless you desperately want touch ID.

Display: that's the poser. If you want the full 5k iMac experience then it probably has to be the Studio Display - and I could point out that a Mac Studio + Studio Display costs about the same as a higher-end iMac with 32GB RAM did (but only thanks to Apple's RAM prices). Personally, I got a pair of Huawei Mateview 28" 4k+ 3:2 format displays for under £900 and while they're not really directly comparable to the Apple 5k, in practical terms they work better for me. So until/unless the promised 5ks from Samsung et. al. appear I'd look at alternative display formats. There are some issues about using 4k displays with MacOS but they are grossly exaggerated by certain reports.

 

[jazzerd8]

First: do you need a machine with internal PCIe slots? (Almost certainly no if you're currently using an iMac). If "no" then there is absolutely no reason to consider the Mac Pro.

Second: I switched from a 2017 i7/4.2GHz/Radeon 580/1TB SSD to a M1 Max Studio (base + 1TB) and am perfectly happy with the performance upgrade - I'd say its the "modern equivalent" of the higher-end iMac (the M2 Max should be even better) - and going to a Mx Ultra processor would be a substantial trade-up, more akin to the mid-range iMac Pro, and I think the only reason you'd need that would be if you really, really needed more than 96GB of RAM.

User-upgradeable RAM ain't coming back, I'm afraid, and Apple charges as much as they can get away with, plus the 96GB limit of the M2 Max is a hard limit - so you need to decide whether you really need 128GB (?) RAM in that iMac or just maxed it out because it was too cheap to sweat over... Run some tests, pull half the RAM (or make a big RAM disk) and look at the Memory Pressure (not 'RAM used' - MacOS will try to 'use' everything it is given) in Activity Monitor before buying a M2 Ultra that you don't need.

Keyboard/Mouse: OK, subjective opinion but I'd pay Apple not to include a Tragic Mouse and Keyboard. You can have my old Apple aluminium wired KB/Num Pad and MX Master from my cold, dead (but surprisingly RSI-free) fingers. Meanwhile, your iMac ones will work fin unless you desperately want touch ID.

Display: that's the poser. If you want the full 5k iMac experience then it probably has to be the Studio Display - and I could point out that a Mac Studio + Studio Display costs about the same as a higher-end iMac with 32GB RAM did (but only thanks to Apple's RAM prices). Personally, I got a pair of Huawei Mateview 28" 4k+ 3:2 format displays for under £900 and while they're not really directly comparable to the Apple 5k, in practical terms they work better for me. So until/unless the promised 5ks from Samsung et. al. appear I'd look at alternative display formats. There are some issues about using 4k displays with MacOS but they are grossly exaggerated by certain reports.

That’s a terrific answer so thank you! Yes, I did some research today actually about pcie and don’t believe I need them so I’m really looking at the studio. The question is as you said, do I max it out to future proof and account for increasing video and audio editing. I must admit, I don’t full understand the ram analysis as I have always maxed it out in the past but I have a 64gb max from 2017.

 

[mectojic]

That’s a terrific answer so thank you! Yes, I did some research today actually about pcie and don’t believe I need them so I’m really looking at the studio. The question is as you said, do I max it out to future proof and account for increasing video and audio editing. I must admit, I don’t full understand the ram analysis as I have always maxed it out in the past but I have a 64gb max from 2017.

You probably never used the full 64GB from your 2017.

Honestly, why don't you just buy the base-model Studio, try it for 2 weeks, and if you don't like it, return to Apple and buy a higher-spec model? Apple does allow you to do refunded returns within 4 weeks. You'll probably be blown away by just how good the base Mac Studio really is.

 

[bogdanw]

Good read: The Mac Security Blog - How to choose the right Mac for your use case in 2023
https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/how-to-choose-the-right-mac-for-your-use-case/

 

[Longplays]

Hey all, been anxiously awaiting news of the Mac Pro for almost a year since my 2017 retina iMac is beginning to have trouble with certain functions. To my surprise we saw the Mac Pro announced, but to my dismay you can’t add RAM yourself, which is where the savings is.

If you can repair the 2017 iMac 14nm you would receive its final Security Update as late as 2027.

So now I am likely going with the maxed out Mac Studio but it is so expensive man! And it pisses me off that Apple screws you by not including ANYTHING with it, not even a freakin mouse! Apple abandoned target display mode so we can’t use the 2017 iMac as a monitor either, so there’s more $$.

Target display mode was only available 2009-2014 iMacs only. 4K & 5K iMacs 14nm were excluded as they couldn't make it work.

It would be nice if Apple secretly R&D that feature into M1 & M2 iMacs 5nm to work with M4, M5 & newer Macs.

Imagine using a 2021 iMac M1 5nm as a display for a 2032 Mac mini M8 0.7nm (A7). You'd give that iMac a useful life of 2 decades. Just like a washing machine, HVAC, car, stove or even a TV.

I paid $3k for a pretty maxed out iMac in 2017 and wish they had another 27” iMac now bc this one will be $7k plus the monitor. Crazy $, and yes I need it for production work. So I’m conflicted both ethically and financially and also concerned they will release the iMac or a cheaper alternative in 6 months. I know the Studio will be blazing but damn, we are getting nailed and blackballed by Apple continuously upselling by way of discontinuing.

What are you all doing, esp people in my situation? Thanks!!

Seeming you lived with the iMac without PCIe slots why not go with a Mac mini M2 Pro 5nm or Mac Studio M2 Max 5nm + display/keyboard/mouse? Replacing them every 4-6 years would be easier on the cash flow than a lump sum on a M2 Ultra that is kept for a decade.

When the $1299 2023 Mac mini M2 Pro came out its benchmark result was near identical to the $1999 2021 Mac Studio M1 Max. This is why it may be more prudent to just upgrade regularly and spread out the cost rather than lump summing it.

Also any 3yo 2020 Mac M1 would outperform the highest-end 2017 Mac. If you are somewhat comfortable with your 2017 iMac before it developed problems then you'd be good with any sub-$2k Mac desktop.

I am in the same boat as you are. I want a iMac 27" replacement with a M2 or M2 Pro chip. Rumors point to it coming out within 4 months.

Apple historically provides Software Updates up to 8 years and Security Updates up to an additional 2 years.

Apple does this as Microsoft has historically supported each Windows version up to 122 months from date of introduction.

 

[jazzerd8]

If you can repair the 2017 iMac you would receive its final Security Update as late as 2027.

Target display mode was only available 2009-2014 iMacs only. 4K & 5K iMacs were excluded as they couldn't make it work.

It would be nice if Apple secretly R&D that feature into M1 & M2 iMacs to work with M4, M5 & newer Macs.

Imagine using a 2021 iMac M1 5nm as a display for a 2032 Mac mini M8 0.7nm (A7). You'd give that iMac a useful life of 2 decades. Just like a washing machine, HVAC, car, stove or even a TV.

Seeming you lived with the iMac without PCIe slots why not go with a Mac mini M2 Pro or Mac Studio M2 Max + display/keyboard/mouse? Replacing them every 4-6 years would be easier on the cash flow than a lump sum on a M2 Ultra that is kept for a decade.

When the $1299 2023 Mac mini M2 Pro came out its benchmark result was near identical to the $1999 2021 Mac Studio M1 Max. This is why it may be more prudent to just upgrade regularly and spread out the cost rather than lump summing it.

Also any 3yo 2020 Mac M1 would outperform the highest-end 2017 Mac. If you are somewhat comfortable with your 2017 iMac before it developed problems then you'd be good with any sub-$2k Mac desktop.

I am in the same boat as you are. I want a iMac 27" replacement with a M2 or M2 Pro chip. Rumors point to it coming out within 4 months.

Apple historically provides Software Updates up to 8 years and Security Updates up to an additional 2 years.

Apple does this as Microsoft has historically supported each Windows version up to 122 months from date of introduction.

Thank you for your nice reply! I will def take this into mind and you may be correct to buy a lesser model. We would have to upgrade the hard drive to 4tb bc you need more than 2 at this point, and I imagine more ram, so the price quickly increases. Question is how much ram.

 

[jazzerd8]

Good read: The Mac Security Blog - How to choose the right Mac for your use case in 2023
https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/how-to-choose-the-right-mac-for-your-use-case/

Reading now thanks!

 

[Longplays]

Thank you for your nice reply! I will def take this into mind and you may be correct to buy a lesser model. We would have to upgrade the hard drive to 4tb bc you need more than 2 at this point,

To put it into context your 2017 iMac has a 14nm chip. All M1 or M2 Macs are 5nm. The smaller the die shrink nm number the better it is in all metrics.

A 3nm M3 is expected Q1 2024 making the performance gap between our Intel Macs even wider. This is a reason why I mention mending your 2017 iMac for another 4 years use as by that time a 2027 Mac M5 1.4nm (A14) will be release by Q3 2027.

I bought a top-end 2012 iMac 27" Core i7 22nm. If a 2023 iMac 27" M2 5nm replacement were to appear for $1799 or higher I'd likely buy that as any entry level M1 Mac would outperform any 2012 or 2017 Mac.

I'd go with a M2 Pro as it has better I/O and more memory and storage without resorting to BTO configs that tend to take longer to deliver.

If your use case remains largely unchanged from 2017 then why advance money for a top end model that will likely be underutilized until its last years? Just replace on its 4th to 6th year. If it is good enough then keep until 2033?

For the 4TB storage I'd buy an external drive instead. There are external 4TB SSD drives that can read/write at 2GB/s. This is far faster than any internal HDD that tops out at 200MB/s. Be aware that it may throttle under extended sustained use.

and I imagine more ram, so the price quickly increases. Question is how much ram.

Check out the $1999 Mac Studio M2 Max that has 32GB memory. Users have observed that Apple Silicon manages RAM better than Intel.

If you have an Apple Store near by ask the staff if you can run your workflow on their demo Macs. If the 32GB Macs does not page out I'd buy that.

If you want to stick to 64GB then I'd go with the $3999 Mac Studio M2 Ultra.