mac studio: which M3 Max features are worth waiting for?

[monoduster]

Other than the performance boost, what features might make the M3 Max mac studio worth waiting for?

The two obvious potential ones are ray tracing and AVI decoding.

Is ray tracing support useful beyond 3D modelling and gaming?

Will hardware AVI decoding be expected for a good experience in 3-5 years?

Are there any other differences between M2/M3 Max that might be worth waiting for?

 

[drrich2]

Some things may not technically be a matter of the M3 Max chip, but may yet be features of the M3 Max Studio. While neither of these is a guarantee, 2 new technologies in the process of rolling out might be useful over time, especially for people who keep and use their Mac for 7+ years.

1.) Wifi 7.
2.) Thunderbolt 5.

A big question with Thunderbolt 5 is how fast will external SSDs made for it be when hooked up this way? And will that performance difference vs TB 3 & 4 be practically useful and noticeable?

How heavy is your Mac's wifi usage load? How much do you do that could benefit from greater bandwidth? If the FCC gives the go-ahead to increase power and range in the 6-GHz spectrum, will that let Wifi 7 routers offer greater 6-Gz range than current 6E routers do?

Today, these questions may be intellectually interesting but of little real value, and that might be the case in 2025 and 2026. But come 2028, are you likely to wish you had those? What about 2030?

It's my understanding once a Mac is released, there's a set number of years Apple provides compatibility with new OS releases, and another set number for security updates. If so, the M3 Max Studio gains another year over the M2 Max Studio.

 

[monoduster]

Thanks @drrich2 — I wasn't in the loop on Thunderbolt 5. That may be worth holding out for.

 

[monoduster]

anyone want to chime in on how important ray tracing or AVI support will be?

 

[socialwill]

Thunderbolt 5 will open up the gate for a new Pro Display XDR with ProMotion. Right now TB4 is a bandwidth limit on what it can pass, TB5 will give it a lot more headroom.

 

[Rnd-chars]

anyone want to chime in on how important ray tracing or AVI support will be?

For a machine that’s plugged in all the time? Very little.

Generally hardware decoding for AV1 (or any codec) means that a task can be performed using less energy/CPU resources than trying to do the same thing using software. This would have a more significant impact if you were using the M3 Max in a MacBook Pro on battery and streamed a lot of AV1 content, but you’d likely never notice it in a desktop machine.

 

[xraydoc]

I'm planning on buying an M3 Max Mac Studio when the come out (reportedly this summer). And while I'm not holding out hope of TB5 support (though perhaps that's why they're delayed until summer), I am going to enjoy the M2 Ultra-equivalent performance for the price of the lower Max unit.

Not too worried about wifi 7 on a desktop Mac personally. I'll be plugging mine into my ethernet network.

The M3's GPU memory optimization is something I'm looking forward to, if I've been reading about it correctly. I'm anticipating buying either 36GB or 48GB, much less likely a 64GB model, depending on how they're configured, so a little GPU memory savings will be a welcomed feature.

 

[Chancha]

As for AV1, you can already test this on a M3 based MacBook, say watching a 8k60p HDR video on YouTube, the CPU consumption goes from 700% to 70% with AV1 encoding enabled. This of course is very meaningful when on battery, since it translates into uptime, but like the above poster noted it is probably of no use for a desktop. But if the video spec is so demanding that software decoding alone can't even play it without dropping frames, then the hardware decoding becomes a prerequisite to even begin to play it; but the content space has a long way to go before reaching that point, at least for a single video, unless you are on the cutting edge in authoring / editing. The only practical possibility right now is a ZOOM call with like 25+ streams on screen since ZOOM now uses AV1, but even then it is a stretch.

Ray tracing is too new on macOS to be relevant any time soon. Some already released games are starting to add back hardware RT, but quite notably the AAA titles that even Apple helps advertise, namely Resident Evils and Death Stranding etc, they are released after M3 was announced but they didn't have time to including ray tracing (yet). As of this moment only experimental 3D work can make use of the cores and see meaningful cut off time in rendering.

WiFi 7, TB5, Bluetooth or Apple in-house modem etc, these sort of hardware advances typically only come with a new generation of chip hardware, meaning soonest is M4. Like the MBP 14" 16", the M2 Pro / Max gen already got updated WiFi etc where the M3 gen just inherits them, can see the same with the Mac Studio.

 

[Pressure]

Thunderbolt 5 will open up the gate for a new Pro Display XDR with ProMotion. Right now TB4 is a bandwidth limit on what it can pass, TB5 will give it a lot more headroom.

HDMI 2.1 and DisplayPort 1.4a (HBR3) alt-mode with DSC over USB4 or TB4 can already support that 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

[cl516]

I just scored a base model certified refurb for M2 Max Studio for this very reason. Will probably use it for 12-18 months, and then see what they come out with next then go hard.

 

[danwells]

The performance? The CPU performance of an M3 Max is essentially that of an M2 Ultra. The M3 cores themselves perform somewhat better, and there are 1.5x as many of them (P-cores). Due to core scaling imperfections, I'd expect the M3 Ultra to be about 1.5x-1.7x the speed of the M2 Ultra or M3 Max depending on workload, rather than twice

GPU performance is not as big an improvement (with the full-power M3 Max having about 3/4 the GPU performance of a 60 core M2 Ultra, and 2/3 that of a 76-core Ultra). That suggests that a full power M3 Ultra will have about 1.33x the GPU performance of a full power M2 Ultra (GPU cores, by and large, do scale).

Where this gets interesting is the "little Ultra" 60-core Mac Studio, especially as a refurbished machine. It'll draw somewhat more power (still highly efficient), but it'll be as fast as an M3 Max from a CPU perspective, and it has a faster GPU. You can pick one up for $3399 (refurbished) in the base configuration, and it ships with 64 GB of RAM.

If you wait for an M3 Max (not Ultra) Mac Studio, I'd expect "big Max" (the 16/40 model with competitive CPU performance) to be almost that expensive. The MacBook Pro took a $200 price jump in the base configuration from M2 Max to M3 Max, so I wouldn't be surprised to have a base Mac Studio around $2299 or even $2399 if Apple tacks an extra hundred on to the lower-production Studio. Because the difference between the two M3 Max versions is so significant, Apple charges $500 extra for the fully enabled one (and a RAM boost from 36 GB to 48 GB). That suggests that a "Big Max" Studio will start around $2799-$2899. Give it 64 GB of RAM and it's $2999-$3099.

For a $300-$400 price difference in the same configuration, is it worth buying a discounted M2 Ultra now instead of an M3 Max later? You get a boost in GPU performance, extra Thunderbolt ports, a theoretical boost in RAM access (for the VERY rare scenario where 400GB/S is not enough), and a computer now, instead of in 5-9 months (everybody hopes for WWDC, but October is a real possibility).

 

[Gloor]

All good but you forgot the big one. Raytracing and mesh shaders. That itself will be huge improvement.
I wouldn't get M2 Studio now (unless one really needs it) as the upgrades in M3 are game changers.

The performance? The CPU performance of an M3 Max is essentially that of an M2 Ultra. The M3 cores themselves perform somewhat better, and there are 1.5x as many of them (P-cores). Due to core scaling imperfections, I'd expect the M3 Ultra to be about 1.5x-1.7x the speed of the M2 Ultra or M3 Max depending on workload, rather than twice

GPU performance is not as big an improvement (with the full-power M3 Max having about 3/4 the GPU performance of a 60 core M2 Ultra, and 2/3 that of a 76-core Ultra). That suggests that a full power M3 Ultra will have about 1.33x the GPU performance of a full power M2 Ultra (GPU cores, by and large, do scale).

Where this gets interesting is the "little Ultra" 60-core Mac Studio, especially as a refurbished machine. It'll draw somewhat more power (still highly efficient), but it'll be as fast as an M3 Max from a CPU perspective, and it has a faster GPU. You can pick one up for $3399 (refurbished) in the base configuration, and it ships with 64 GB of RAM.

If you wait for an M3 Max (not Ultra) Mac Studio, I'd expect "big Max" (the 16/40 model with competitive CPU performance) to be almost that expensive. The MacBook Pro took a $200 price jump in the base configuration from M2 Max to M3 Max, so I wouldn't be surprised to have a base Mac Studio around $2299 or even $2399 if Apple tacks an extra hundred on to the lower-production Studio. Because the difference between the two M3 Max versions is so significant, Apple charges $500 extra for the fully enabled one (and a RAM boost from 36 GB to 48 GB). That suggests that a "Big Max" Studio will start around $2799-$2899. Give it 64 GB of RAM and it's $2999-$3099.

For a $300-$400 price difference in the same configuration, is it worth buying a discounted M2 Ultra now instead of an M3 Max later? You get a boost in GPU performance, extra Thunderbolt ports, a theoretical boost in RAM access (for the VERY rare scenario where 400GB/S is not enough), and a computer now, instead of in 5-9 months (everybody hopes for WWDC, but October is a real possibility).

 

[wmy5]

First Thunderbolt 5 PC has already been announced: https://press.razer.com/product-news/introducing-razer-blade-18-2024/

I have hope that the next Mac Studio will support Thunderbolt 5.

 

[Melbourne Park]

I doubt Apple will provide T5 in the next Studio, because Apple charges three times as much for SSD capacity than they should. Introducing T5 for a desktop would encourage external storage instead of having to pay Apple's outrageous storage prices.

 

[tstafford]

First Thunderbolt 5 PC has already been announced: https://press.razer.com/product-news/introducing-razer-blade-18-2024/

I have hope that the next Mac Studio will support Thunderbolt 5.

That thing makes Apple look cheap.

 

[Schnitzel1979]

I really hope there will be a M3 Ultra Chip this year in a Mac Studio, I do not want to wait till 2025

 

[wmy5]

I really hope there will be a M3 Ultra Chip this year in a Mac Studio, I do not want to wait till 2025

I don't think there will be another M3-family chip after today's M4 iPad announcement. The new Studio will use M4 Max/Ultra chip. Hopefully we can see it in 2024, not 2025.

 

[Schnitzel1979]

I don't think there will be another M3-family chip after today's M4 iPad announcement. The new Studio will use M4 Max/Ultra chip. Hopefully we can see it in 2024, not 2025.

M4 Chips in the Mac Studio would be great. lets see what Apple presents at the wwdc in June

 

[Mac Hammer Fan]

I am looking forward to a Mac Studio M4 Max. Hopefully in june.

 

[Gloor]

yeah, me too. All this time I was waiting for HW raytracing and now thats out with M3 all I need is studio updated. M4 sounds great as the N3E + higher memory bandwidth will be perfect. I really hope Apple reverses the order so the highest (low volume) chip goes out first and it trickles down. It makes way more sense business wise and also customers wise.

less than 5 weeks to go to find out

 

[Neil J. Squillante]

I am looking forward to a Mac Studio M4 Max. Hopefully in june.

Mark Gurman was correct about the M4 debut this week. Yesterday, he laid out the roadmap for the M4:

"For those asking, here’s the M4 Mac roadmap. Expect Mac minis, iMacs and MacBook Pros later this year; MacBook Air in the spring; Mac Studio and Pro second half of 2025."

If he's right — and at this point his track record is impeccable — you might need to wait beyond WWDC 2025 let alone 2024. He didn't say anything about the M3 so Apple could announce an M3 Max Mac Studio next month. The M3 Max already exists. As for the Ultra, Apple is reportedly outfitting data centers with M2 Ultra Macs, probably in a custom server rack chassis. If the M2 Ultra is good enough for Apple …

 

[krell100]

With M3 out, and now M4, Studio sales have to be cratering.

 

[djinn]

You can count me as someone keeping the M2 Max afloat. Just ordered semi-upgrade M2 Max, nothing magical.

 

[zoomp]

It only makes sense to come in June. WDDC and m3 was really a stopgag, not even ultra marks… it is pretty logical to launch a new family with a iPad and the whole family with the desktops instead of laptops. It has been this way since forever but with AS.

 

[iSandrotto]

It only makes sense to come in June. WDDC and m3 was really a stopgag, not even ultra marks… it is pretty logical to launch a new family with a iPad and the whole family with the desktops instead of laptops. It has been this way since forever but with AS.

I agree. There are two scenarios for WWDC: A) Apple announces no new hardware B) Apple announces new hardware
A) That would be very strange. Apple will unveil their AI strategy but would not have any dedicated hardware announcements to support their AI software push. Seems unlikely.
B) MacBooks recently got the M3 so I don’t think they will be updated to M4 already. Normally, pro hardware such as the Mac Studio or Mac Pro get announced during WWDC, not the more consumer oriented desktops such as the MacMini or iMac (those are for their Oct/Nov events). The most obvious scenario is the M4 Studio and potentially M4 Pro.
The problem is though that Mark Gurman‘s hit rate is really high. And he says there won’t be an M4 Studio this year. I hope he is not right this time.
Also, an M3 Studio is out of question in my eyes. Wouldn’t make sense to release that after the M4 announcement.