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sam_dean

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For a Macbook 12" to reach a $700 price point do you think it possible that Apple would use a A17 Bionic chip that can run macOS Ventura?

For Windows laptops the average selling price is $700. Given that a A17 Bionic chip will be that powerful why not use it as a cheap part to eat into the Windows laptop market.

Given that the iPads use

- M2
- M1
- A16 Bionic
- A15 Bionic
- A14 Bionic

Makes me think that strategy could be applied to macOS as well.

It may even use a 20W charger.
 
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MayaUser

macrumors 68040
Nov 22, 2021
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I think binned M3 can bring 12" Macbook back at its full glory but i dont think is happening
$999 can be the M2 Macbook air next year so theres that
 
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sam_dean

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A17 Bionic chip was used with a Macbook 12" maybe in future we could see it sold as a Mac mini using the Apple TV 4K form factor for $300-400.
 

imdropbear

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Sep 12, 2019
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I'd rather expect them to eventually use an M1 in a low cost model once it is old enough but probably not even that. It's probably easier to manufacture a low cost version of whatever your current generation chip is since you won't have to support old CPU models (who might eventually lack features you would want your OS to rely on) in your operating system forever that way.
 
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maflynn

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May 3, 2009
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Given that a A17 Bionic chip will be that powerful
Huge difference in having having a powerful processor in a phone and being capable of being in a computer. Apple is a premium brand and having a low performing cheap computer would be a mistake. I also think the A17 will be a very poor option, because computer processors are capable of multitasking and the A series processors are not as equipped. The level of multitasking in the iphone and ipad are quite different then what a laptop can do.

Apple has proven over and over that they're not interested in growing marketshare by racing to the bottom. They're better off by providing a premium experience.
 

sam_dean

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I'd rather expect them to eventually use an M1 in a low cost model once it is old enough but probably not even that. It's probably easier to manufacture a low cost version of whatever your current generation chip is since you won't have to support old CPU models (who might eventually lack features you would want your OS to rely on) in your operating system forever that way.
You have a great point. You are probably more correct than I am.

But Apple placed the 2021 A15 Bionic 5nm chip debuted in the iPhone 13 line into a 2022 Apple TV 4K that sells for $129 & $149.

Assuming the 2023 A17 Bionic 3nm chip has provisions for the I/O ports that the Mac mini M1/M2 has then it may be cheaper to to use that part instead of a M1 5nm chip.

A 2023 A17 Bionic 3nm chip probably has more raw performance than a 2012 Core i7 22nm chip found in my 2012 iMac 27" while consuming less than 5W of power.

As the M1/M2 1st used for macOS is used in the iPads using iPadOS then I do not see it as a stretch that A17 Bionic could not be repurposed as a macOS chip for a $299 2023 Mac nano (reusing naming convention of the iPod) using an 2022 Apple TV 4K case or a $699 2023 Macbook 12".

Apple's actively looking for places to stick whatever excess manufacturing capacity of A12, A15, A16, M1 and M2 into devices that feels odd-ish.
 

maflynn

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I would buy an updated 12” day one. Unfortunately, I believe those days are gone.
I think 12" laptops would just muddy the product line.

12" MBA (proposed)
13" MBA
13" MBP
14" MBP
15" MBA (rumored)
16" MBP

Seems overkill as it stands
 

sam_dean

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Huge difference in having having a powerful processor in a phone and being capable of being in a computer. Apple is a premium brand and having a low performing cheap computer would be a mistake. I also think the A17 will be a very poor option, because computer processors are capable of multitasking and the A series processors are not as equipped. The level of multitasking in the iphone and ipad are quite different then what a laptop can do.

Apple has proven over and over that they're not interested in growing marketshare by racing to the bottom. They're better off by providing a premium experience.
And yet the M1/M2 is placed into the iPad Air & iPad Pro.

Apple repriced the Mac mini from $699 with the M1 to $599 with the M2.

A $299 Mac nano A17 Bionic or $699 Macbook 12" A17 Bionic may justify any perceive caps of flexibility.

I agree.. they let "race to the bottom" to be the domain of Windows & Android brands with the perk of not threading on being a legal monopoly in that specific domain.
 

sam_dean

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I would buy an updated 12” day one. Unfortunately, I believe those days are gone.
People want a 12" largely because of the physical dimension & weight.

Given that the display bezel thickness as shrunk towards 5mm or thinner then the 13" is now the new 12".

But I do agree... a 12" would be awesome and I see it possibly happening with it using an iPhone chip so the price point would be cheaper and the physicality of the laptop would be allowed to be smaller.
 

tstafford

macrumors 6502a
Sep 13, 2022
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People want a 12" largely because of the physical dimension & weight.

Given that the display bezel thickness as shrunk towards 5mm or thinner then the 13" is now the new 12".

But I do agree... a 12" would be awesome and I see it possibly happening with it using an iPhone chip so the price point would be cheaper and the physicality of the laptop would be allowed to be smaller.
On size I agree the 13" is now the new 12" more or less. The issue is it's A LOT heavier - the old 12" was 0.8lbs lighter IIRC. I too would buy a 12" in a heartbeat, but I gave up a week or two ago and bought a base M2 MBA (for now).
 

sam_dean

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On size I agree the 13" is now the new 12" more or less. The issue is it's A LOT heavier - the old 12" was 0.8lbs lighter IIRC. I too would buy a 12" in a heartbeat, but I gave up a week or two ago and bought a base M2 MBA (for now).
Hence my push that iPhone chips be used for a $699 Macbook 12" and $299 Mac nano so long as the chip can handle macOS I/O port requirements.

M1 5nm may still be too expensive or too large a power draw for those price points.
 

maflynn

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And yet the M1/M2 is placed into the iPad Air & iPad Pro.
Yes, you can put a fast processor in a tablet and its power will not be fully leveraged but if you put a slow underpowered processor in a computer its a horrible mistake.
 
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sam_dean

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Yes, you can put a fast processor in a tablet and its power will not be fully leveraged but if you put a slow underpowered processor in a computer its a horrible mistake.
Original 2006-2012 Macbook 12" did that and it sold well.

Use case for such devices is not to edit multiple streams of 8K 120fps HDR video and expect 24 hours of battery life.
 

maflynn

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May 3, 2009
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Original 2006-2012 Macbook 12" did that and it sold well.

Use case for such devices is not to edit multiple streams of 8K 120fps HDR video and expect 24 hours of battery life.
Yes, but they didn't have a 13", 14", 16" laptops with a rumored 15" MBA on the way

Btw, if it was selling well and apple was making a profit, I don't think they would have discontinued it.
 
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Ponylover52

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Jun 12, 2022
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IPad Pro and iPad OS is only becoming more MacOS like and capable, frankly with a new 11” Pro and the ability to dock and use with a external monitor pretty much eliminates the desire for a smaller MacBook (granted I am not programming or doing any of those edge case things where a Mac and MacOS are still needed. Regardless the form factor Apple has crammed the M2 into is impressive, in how it makes a MacBook Air look downright bulky in comparison.
 

sam_dean

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Yes, but they didn't have a 13", 14", 16" laptops with a rumored 15" MBA on the way

Btw, if it was selling well and apple was making a profit, I don't think they would have discontinued it.

With the iPod they had incremental products at every +$50 or +$100 price points.

I think the lowest it got was $99 with the top end selling $599?

Same with iPhones with the iPhone SE, at its lowest, priced at $329(?) then topping off at $1,599 for the 1TB iPhone Pro Max?

If the profit margin can be kept and the material cost are kept to target, parts availability is there then I do not see any reason why an iPhone chip cannot be used in a Mac priced below that of any M1 Mac.

This occured most recently with the Homepod. Originally it was priced $329 then dropped to $299 to help stimulate demand. It eventually got discontinue probably because it was too expensive to make.

It made its return this month probably because Procurement was able to negotiate prices lower for the parts & services in conjunction with a more economic redesign.

Going back to a Mac powered by an iPhone chip... at the price I described it only needs to do what the Macbook Retina did.

Correction on my end I was referring to the Macbook Retina that was marketed 2015-2019that used an ultra-low voltage Intel Core M chip that had a TDP of 4.5W. Not the much earlier Macbook from 2006-2012.

Per measurement of the 2022 Apple TV 4K at wall socket power consumption it uses less than 2.5W of power. The chip, just itself probably edging towards 1W?

A A17 Bionic 3nm chip that will come out by Sep 2023 will have more raw performance than a 2012 Core i7 22nm chip found in the top end BTO 2012 iMac 27".

A handicap on that iPhone chip may be I/O ports required by macOS. That limitation was shown with the M1 with many people complaining about its lack of I/O ports that they have come to expect on above base model Intel Macs.
 
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maflynn

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May 3, 2009
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Original 2006-2012 Macbook 12" did that and it sold well.
They put a phone processor into a laptop?

AFAIK, Apple did not produce a 12" laptop in 2006 through 2012, I could be wrong, please point me the right direction.

They did produce a 12" laptop in 2015 through 2019, and it used the core M processors designed for ultra light processors, and in doing some light googling, performance was very good.

You're point of putting an iPhone processor into a laptop and expecting it tempt windows/pc buyers just doesn't hold water imo.
 

sam_dean

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They put a phone processor into a laptop?

AFAIK, Apple did not produce a 12" laptop in 2006 through 2012, I could be wrong, please point me the right direction.

They did produce a 12" laptop in 2015 through 2019, and it used the core M processors designed for ultra light processors, and in doing some light googling, performance was very good.

You're point of putting an iPhone processor into a laptop and expecting it tempt windows/pc buyers just doesn't hold water imo.
How so?
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
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You recommended that apple put a phone processor into a laptop, because they're able to put fast processors in an iPad and further backed it up by saying they produced a 12" laptop from 2006 to 2012.

I then said Apple did not produce a 12" laptop in those years, but I could be wrong, so I'm asking you for evidence that they actually produced a 12" laptop
 

Gudi

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May 3, 2013
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For a Macbook 12" to reach a $700 price point do you think it possible that Apple would use a A17 Bionic chip that can run macOS Ventura?
I think Steve Jobs said something like: "We don't know how to build cheap ****** laptops." They competed against subnotebooks with the MacBook Air for at least $999. With a BlackFriday discount that might go as low as $799, but not for long. With the quality standard and profit margin Apple aims for, you can't go much lower and you don't want to either. An A-series chip makes no difference.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
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Btw, Apple did produce a 12" laptop, it was from 2015 through 2019. But my point remains that a 12" laptop along with the rumored 15" MBA only muddies the water of an already confusing product mix.

Just to reiterate my point, if apple did produce a 12" laptop they would then have
12" MBA (proposed)
13" MBA
13" MBP
14" MBP
15" MBA (rumored)
16" MBP

Having two 13" laptops, and a 12" is ludicrous imo. Its almost as bad as having a 14", 15", and 16" laptop lineup (the 15" is a rumor and doesn't exist )
 

Ponylover52

Cancelled
Jun 12, 2022
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Btw, Apple did produce a 12" laptop, it was from 2015 through 2019. But my point remains that a 12" laptop along with the rumored 15" MBA only muddies the water of an already confusing product mix.

Just to reiterate my point, if apple did produce a 12" laptop they would then have
12" MBA (proposed)
13" MBA
13" MBP
14" MBP
15" MBA (rumored)
16" MBP

Having two 13" laptops, and a 12" is ludicrous imo. Its almost as bad as having a 14", 15", and 16" laptop lineup (the 15" is a rumor and doesn't exist )
The 13” pro arguably needs to disappear. Apple just draw your segments. 13” and 15” Air 14” and 16” Pro boom simple easy product line idk why they opt to do these weird in between products like the 13” Pro in the old MacBook Pro body, just let it go apple. 12” Macbook would be fine although see I’d rather apple push people to the iPad at that point and I can’t help but think they feel the same way with iPad OS becoming ever more mature and the hardware now being identical to a large swath of mac offerings, I just don’t think a 12” MacBook is needed any longer.
 
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