Macbook Air 2020 is restricted in cooling for a reason

[ctjack]

According to this chart in this thread, we know that the i5 Air 2020 is giving 2.7x in multiple score of Cinebench R20.
Since 2.7x in multicore implies that there is a problem with cooling, we can assume about projected numbers IF the cooling was on par at least with base MBP 13. Assumed score should be in the range of 3.5x-4.2x, which would gave us the score R20 multiple core of 1235 - 1482.
This would have been territory of the base MBP 13, so that is why Air didn't have proper cooling - since it has better CPU. This CPU is also more expensive than 8th gen chips in the base MBP 13, which might be from old inventories.
GPU:

According to the table above from notebookcheck, we can assume that i5 Air has the same graphics as in the $1799 i5 MBP 13 2020. Assuming further, with proper cooling it could be almost on par with higher base MBP 13 in terms of GPU power.

Overall that would be pretty interesting laptop: CPU wise equal to base $1300 MBP and with graphics higher than that and almost reaching $1799 MBP 13.
Apparently, there would be a lot of people willing to buy the Air in that case, which will decrease sales of MBP. Because only folks who want Touch Bar, better speakers, more sustained power, better display would go for higher base $1799 MBP.

To me it seems that Air is better buy than base MBP 13 2020, since you get more expensive CPU for less $. At least CPU would be a big chunk of money that you've paid to Apple - hence Apple will make at least less money from you buying an Air than base MBP 13. Same reasoning goes towards DDR4 memory, which is also more expensive.

 

[Jimmy James]

Yes, clearly they’re limiting performance to drive upgrades. What’s surprising is the number of posts in defence of Apple.

 

[Shirasaki]

Slimness and aesthetics over performance is probably the only reason why thermals on any and all MacBooks are terrible. If thermal is not great, components wont work in comfortable conditions, accelerating the speed of failing or malfunctioning. Since everything is so tightly packed, compromises (either intentional or not) comes into play to cram as much stuff as possible, possibly creating issues along the way. All I can say is enjoying your Macbook while you still can and BACKUP ALL DATA STORED ON YOUR MAC WHILE YOU STILL CAN.

 

[Blueberry123]

Apple should have put a heatpipe in the quad core 2020 MBA's, just charged more for the upgrades. So they could have i3 $999, i5 $1199 and i7 $1299. Then no great upsell needed to the base MBP at $1299.

The 10-12 watt processor on the quad core air would still be limited by its TDP, so those that needed sustained performance would still buy the MBP's.

I would be happy to pay extra for the quad core MBA with a heatpipe. I want the MBA, because of form factor, lighter, functions keys and longer battery life. That and it should have been quiet and cool to use on your lap, like old non retina MBA's that used the 15 watt intel U series processor with a heatpipe (which is what is used in the base MBP). Problem solved.

 

[Loog]

Come and join us over on this channel : https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2020-air-heatsink.2227066/page-59

Its a long read but you'll get most of the answers you require

 

[JPack]

I don’t think there was any doubt limited cooling served as a performance cap.

The 400 nit cap on a 500 nit panel is more evidence this is a marketing limitation.

 

[deeddawg]

Yes, clearly they’re limiting performance to drive upgrades. What’s surprising is the number of posts in defence of Apple.

Don't confuse "understanding the strategy" with "defending Apple".


There's also the not wasting effort complaining about stuff you can't change part...

 

[violentlychill]

What's odd is they did appear to hard-code a hardware limit. Even those that have modded a better cooler solution (Maxtech with his water cooler and many in the shim mod thread) have reported limited gains (but better at sustaining them and much better thermals overall).

I'm fine with this limitation especially if it had been coupled with better thermals. If it could only sustain around 2.0Ghz (which seems to be the hard-coded limit after some turbo) but did so at 80C or less, that'd be great. However it appears to peg some users at 100C constantly which is not great.

 

[Jimmy James]

What's odd is they did appear to hard-code a hardware limit. Even those that have modded a better cooler solution (Maxtech with his water cooler and many in the shim mod thread) have reported limited gains (but better at sustaining them and much better thermals overall).

I'm fine with this limitation especially if it had been coupled with better thermals. If it could only sustain around 2.0Ghz (which seems to be the hard-coded limit after some turbo) but did so at 80C or less, that'd be great. However it appears to peg some users at 100C constantly which is not great.

This is the crux of it for me. I don’t mind reduced performance. Especially if it results in better battery life and less heat. But to get both less performance and Heat is terrible design. Apple achieved their apparent objective using poor design.

 

[Loog]

This is the crux of it for me. I don’t mind reduced performance. Especially if it results in better battery life and less heat. But to get both less performance and Heat is terrible design. Apple achieved their apparent objective using poor design.

... I think you have also forgotten to include battery life in there @Jimmy James. My i7 lasted around 6-7 hours use, my 2018 gets over 8 hours with ease doing the same daily tasks. Subjective to load I appreciate, but with a 10w vs 7w CPU and the same size battery, screen etc something has to give.

 

[deeddawg]

This is the crux of it for me. I don’t mind reduced performance. Especially if it results in better battery life and less heat. But to get both less performance and Heat is terrible design. Apple achieved their apparent objective using poor design.

What do you mean by heat though?

If you check over on the MBP side of MR, at least one person who's gone from MBA to MBP has noted their MBP gets a bunch warmer on the bottom than their MBA did.

... and for a system I use on my lap, that's a bad thing.

When I've measured case temps on my i5 MBA it stays in decent temp ranges, generally below body heat level unless really pushing it. As in ~88F bottom case temp right now browsing and puttering around.

I don't care about CPU temps -- the CPU isn't sitting up against my skin.

 

[Jimmy James]

What do you mean by heat though?

If you check over on the MBP side of MR, at least one person who's gone from MBA to MBP has noted their MBP gets a bunch warmer on the bottom than their MBA did.

... and for a system I use on my lap, that's a bad thing.

I mean cpu temp by heat. I’d prefer a thermal path even if it means the case gets hotter.

 

[Emm-Mas]

Slimness and aesthetics over performance is probably the only reason why thermals on any and all MacBooks are terrible. If thermal is not great, components wont work in comfortable conditions, accelerating the speed of failing or malfunctioning. Since everything is so tightly packed, compromises (either intentional or not) comes into play to cram as much stuff as possible, possibly creating issues along the way. All I can say is enjoying your Macbook while you still can and BACKUP ALL DATA STORED ON YOUR MAC WHILE YOU STILL CAN.

If true then thats really quite worrying!! Have there been any other apple or even window laptops with similar heating issues to the current MBA in the past and have these machines shown premature malfunctioning of components? Considering buying a MBA as a basic user but getting long term use (ie at least 6 or 7 years and hopefully longer if possible) is very important for me!

 

[IngerMan]

Have there been any other apple or even window laptops with similar heating issues to the current MBA

Not with this one, but its a little on the big side....

 

[deeddawg]

I mean cpu temp by heat. I’d prefer a thermal path even if it means the case gets hotter.

Check the MBP forum - I've seen indications that the 10th gen CPUs are hitting 100C over there too. (link below)

Seems that may just be a 10th gen in a macbook thing?

Many folks are assuming that's a "bad thing" but I've not yet seen any real evidence that there's an actual problem running the 10th gen CPUs up to their Tjunction max temp. I also don't believe you can necessarily extrapolate across different CPU generations, so comparing what the 8th gen cpus do or don't do has no bearing IMHO.

End of the day - if you're planning frequent sustained CPU loading then buy a MBP - the MBA isn't the tool for the job. If you're instead doing lighter load with brief bursty CPU usage, the MBA works fine. Like I've said, my i5 MBA very infrequently makes any fan noise - only when I'm pushing it. Which isn't that often, so it's a non-issue.

2020 $1799 MBP Unusual Benchmark Performance

The new $1799 13-inch MBP has some unexpected benchmarking results so far, according to the video MaxTech made comparing it to the 2020 $1299 MBP. In the Cinebench R20 CPU benchmark, it seems like Apple is letting the $1799 MBP draw more power than the $1299 MBP, so the more expensive model is...

forums.macrumors.com

[automerge]1590610600[/automerge]

If true then thats really quite worrying!!

Hyperbolic FUD tends to have that affect.

This "heating issue" is largely in people's heads. The systems are functioning within the Intel specification - the CPU itself backs off when it hits the threshhold temperature to prevent damaging itself. The MBA has a low power processor, so it will start its fan running at a lesser load than does a MBP with the higher power processor.

See my above link - the MPB's with the 10th gen Intel CPUs are hitting similar temps when pushed.

In normal usage my i5 MBA remains cool and silent.

IMHO you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Shirasaki]

Also, buying an i5 processor to enjoy i3 performance because of thermal throttle is bad purchase for me. We will see how apple’s A Series processor fair in this regard, as that CPU apparently don’t need active cooling at all.

 

[konqerror]

Have there been any other apple or even window laptops with similar heating issues to the current MBA in the past and have these machines shown premature malfunctioning of components?

My friend's Sager laptop literally melted its plastic air vents. You're severely underestimating the crap potential of Windows computers.

 

[RiaKoobcam]

Don't confuse "understanding the strategy" with "defending Apple".


There's also the not wasting effort complaining about stuff you can't change part...

I totally agree with you dawg. Apple isn't a friend, they're not a provider of religious or spiritual experience, they're a deliverer of shareholder value. If that means funnelling people towards more expensive stuff, I think that sucks, but my voice isn't going to drown out the fact that their shareholders are drowning in money.

There's plenty of stuff about their business model that I don't like, but that's me. I figure the only effective measure I can take is voting with my wallet - if Apple makes something so heinously crap that I don't want to use it anymore, there's plenty of other mobile device makers producing great stuff that I could buy.

Until it hurts their bottom line (e.g. Butterfly keyboards...), they're not going to make changes.

We aren't the average users here. We can identify things we don't like about heatsink design, and I've certainly been bashing my head against the wall trying to get the 2020 MBA Bootcamp performance close to the 2019's level, but... their main consumer base doesn't care about or notice that stuff.

 

[vyruzreaper]

According to this chart in this thread, we know that the i5 Air 2020 is giving 2.7x in multiple score of Cinebench R20.
Since 2.7x in multicore implies that there is a problem with cooling, we can assume about projected numbers IF the cooling was on par at least with base MBP 13. Assumed score should be in the range of 3.5x-4.2x, which would gave us the score R20 multiple core of 1235 - 1482.
This would have been territory of the base MBP 13, so that is why Air didn't have proper cooling - since it has better CPU. This CPU is also more expensive than 8th gen chips in the base MBP 13, which might be from old inventories.
GPU:
View attachment 919075
According to the table above from notebookcheck, we can assume that i5 Air has the same graphics as in the $1799 i5 MBP 13 2020. Assuming further, with proper cooling it could be almost on par with higher base MBP 13 in terms of GPU power.

Overall that would be pretty interesting laptop: CPU wise equal to base $1300 MBP and with graphics higher than that and almost reaching $1799 MBP 13.
Apparently, there would be a lot of people willing to buy the Air in that case, which will decrease sales of MBP. Because only folks who want Touch Bar, better speakers, more sustained power, better display would go for higher base $1799 MBP.

To me it seems that Air is better buy than base MBP 13 2020, since you get more expensive CPU for less $. At least CPU would be a big chunk of money that you've paid to Apple - hence Apple will make at least less money from you buying an Air than base MBP 13. Same reasoning goes towards DDR4 memory, which is also more expensive.

Apple clearly wants people to by the $1800 MBP. They doubled the RAM and SSD. Pricing stayed the same. And they gave us A LOT of comprises with the base MBP and Air. IMO they shouldve just killed the ****ing base MBP, created a MBA with a proper heatpipe, and sold the i5/i7 versions for 100-200 more.

 

[Pugly]

Is there any evidence of other devices with this kind of CPU that performs better? It's really just a souped up version of the cpu in the 12" MacBook. This cpu is made to work without a fan, so the fan is just there to give it a little extra boost. The fan is there so it can, if you wanted to, push it beyond what it normally would be able to do... you just have to deal with that loud fan.

I think the big cheat here is the graphics, because there is no way for it to support that iGPU's performance and the CPU at the same time. The cpu gets throttled really hard anytime it needs more graphics. Saying it has the Iris Plus graphics is pure marketing, since there is no way this design can use it to it's full capabilities.

I really don't consider the MBA an ultrabook anymore... it's really not that thin and light relative to the performance you get. They could fit a 15 watt cpu in this design if they wanted to.

 

[Shirasaki]

I really don't consider the MBA an ultrabook anymore... it's really not that thin and light relative to the performance you get.

MBA 11” is still my personal best ultra book made by Apple. Portability king with decent performance and battery life imo. Sadly they discontinued that lineup.

 

[Pugly]

MBA 11” is still my personal best ultra book made by Apple. Portability king with decent performance and battery life imo. Sadly they discontinued that lineup.

Yeah, I still love using my MBA 11". This old Air can easily maintain a 2.7ghz turbo above its 2.2ghz. I didn't see anywhere close to that sort of consistent turbo on the new MBA.

I expect more out of a 5 year newer computer.... with twice the cores... that feels like a tank compared to the 11"...

 

[RiaKoobcam]

I know it's been said a thousand times before, but I was using our old 2015 13 inch MBA yesterday for some isolation testing and, as far as user experience goes, it was subjectively better in many ways since the 2018 refresh. Or at the very least, had very similar levels of performance (and excelled in some areas the 2020 falls down in), which is pretty striking given it came out five years ago.

I suppose the main thing is I don't really understand what they're going for with the Macbook Air anymore. It doesn't really feel like an ultrabook as its competitors blow it out of the water for performance, and, often, battery life. It sort of feels like a replacement for the 12 inch Macbook that many people liked, but it's as heavy as the Macbook Pro, with almost exactly the same dimensions.

With the release of the Magic Keyboard dock for the iPad pro and the whole 'your next computer isn't a computer' marketing line they've been pushing, I guess I don't really... get it.

The 2010 Air invented the concept of an ultrabook - thin, light and powerful. I suppose the MBA from 2018-2020 makes sense from a 'here's a low barrier entry to MacOS' perspective, but I'm just confused.

It made more sense to me when I thought they were just killing off the line entirely and replacing it with the 12" Macbook. The iPad is increasingly being pushed as the every day use device, the Macbook Pro is what people are often recommended when they want thin, light, and powerful... which leaves the Macbook Air where?

 

[nill1234]

It made more sense to me when I thought they were just killing off the line entirely and replacing it with the 12" Macbook. The iPad is increasingly being pushed as the every day use device, the Macbook Pro is what people are often recommended when they want thin, light, and powerful... which leaves the Macbook Air where?

it leaves the macbook air for the perfect coding machine without buying an expensiv pro. Just do the copper shim mod and/or the heatpad mod and its able to achieve 3ghz sustained boost without any fan noise.