Macbook Line-up Aligning with iPad Line-up?

[MyopicPaideia]

Just an observation. Apple has positioned the Air line as a mid-tier product between the base and Pro lines for the iPad. Could they be doing the same for the Macbook Line-up? Since we’ve heard rumors about 3 different new ASi Macbooks all over the place?

iPad:

• iPad 10.2” Screen
• iPad Air/mini 8.4”-10.9” Screens (Given mini redesign rumors pan out)
• iPad Pro (11”-12.9” Screens)

Macbook:

• ASi Macbook 12” Screen
• ASi Macbook Air 13.3” Screen
• ASi Macbook Pro 14”-16” Screens

Would allow them to reuse a lot of generations of Apple Silicon going forward as the refreshes pass down the older flagship SoC’s. Macbook could even start with the iPad Pro A14X without modification to spread out the R&D costs across devices, while the MBA and MBP get their own tiered/binned Mac specific SoC’s. Then the next gen MB gets the previous gen MBA’s SoC, and the next gen MBA gets the previous gen MBP SoC, etc etc.

That’s how I would recover R&D costs for new silicon over the least amount of time if I were doing it...

 

[Falhófnir]

IMO it would be neater to go back to their successful 2x2 lineup from the early part of last decade:

MacBook Air 12" and 13.3" (or later 12.5" and 14") - maybe using A14X, or a new 'A14M'

MacBook Pro 14" and 16" - using a new 'A14MX'

but the rumours suggest for now at least they are keeping the 2 port 13.3" MacBook Pro as the first AS MacBook, then expand out across the current lineup (replacing the 4 port 13.3" Pro with a 14"). I assume this is to help customers with a reference point for their AS purchases at first, and later Apple will re-jig the lineup a bit to play to their own SoCs strengths. Or at least it doesn't make sense to continue on with an Apple Silicon lineup built around Intel's product offerings to me?

 

[Mojo1019]

MacBook Air 12" and 13.3"

It was 11", not 12". Bt the way I would like 3x3 lineup, but only if there will be a real differentiation in features (and then cost) of the products.

 

[leman]

Definitively sound plausible from business perspective, but wow, you are setting a high bar for the lineup! A14X in the lowest tier Mac laptop (assuming it's a 4+4 part) — that would make it at least as fast as the 30W quad-core Tiger Lakes!

 

[Falhófnir]

It was 11", not 12". Bt the way I would like 3x3 lineup, but only if there will be a real differentiation in features (and then cost) of the products.

Yes but if there's a sub 13.3" MacBook Air in the future it's much more likely to be a rebranded 12" than a redesigned 11". 3x3 would be 3 size models of 3 product lines (e.g. 12", 14", 16" MacBook, MacBook Air and MacBook Pro) I don't see 9 separate models being maintained, but maybe eventually they will just have 'MacBooks' in three chassis sizes and you can specify it from a sort of a la carte features menu... that'd also be quite tricky to maintain but wouldn't need ~18 stock SKUs!

 

[Jorbanead]

I think we can look at both the iPad Pro and iPhone pro models as examples. For example I think with AS the two MacBook Pro models will come with the exact same specs. The only difference (like the iPhone Pro and iPad Pro) will be the screen size and battery life.

I could also see two variants of the Air as well, with both sizes having the same specs. This would cut down on R&D costs as they only have to make two different chips but they can get 4 products out of them.

And actually I could even see them using the same silicon they use in the MBP lineup in the iMac and Mac mini lineup as well. Their big MO for Apple silicon was that notebooks would be as powerful as desktops, so why not literally put the same chips they use in their desktops in their pro laptop. Then they can say “we’re using the same desktop-class chip we announced in our iMac in the new MacBook Pro”, but really it’s also so they can simply reuse the same chip across half their Mac lineup. Of course the desktops may have better sustained performance with better cooling, but they won’t say that part.

 

[MyopicPaideia]

Definitively sound plausible from business perspective, but wow, you are setting a high bar for the lineup! A14X in the lowest tier Mac laptop (assuming it's a 4+4 part) — that would make it at least as fast as the 30W quad-core Tiger Lakes!

Well I think we can pretty much assume at this point that the A14X will be a 4+4+8 part, just like the A12Z is. Don’t think it will be more. They are going to do the same increase in cache and other stuff with the extra transistor budget they got going to 5nm, as they have shown with the A14 they just announced. Not sure whether that is setting a high bar though - all the rumors have pointed to a 12 core CPU for the first Mac SoC, whether that is going to be a 4+8 or 6+6 combo will depend on the battery life vs performance focus they go for.

 

[d7d19285f0bd48]

IMO it would be neater to go back to their successful 2x2 lineup

From a marketing perspective you always want to go in groups of 3 or "good, better, best".

You position your "better" product (which happens to be your highest margin product) so that people think they are getting "close enough" to "best" but perceive value because it is less expensive.

This is where you want to drive most consumers.

Then you have "good" to service those who simply cannot afford anything else and "best" to supply the ultra high end where consumers aren't sensitive to price point.

 

[leman]

From a marketing perspective you always want to go in groups of 3 or "good, better, best".

Thanks, I just learned something

 

[Zorori]

Then you have "good" to service those who simply cannot afford anything else and "best" to supply the ultra high end where consumers aren't sensitive to price point.

Which would make sense as:

Macbook
MacBook Air
MacBook Pro

Which just happens to be the same as the iPads... ?

 

[motomotomoto]

I see a lot of comments with people talking about the new AS Macs using the same chips from the iPads. Isn’t one of the ONLY things Apple revealed that they will not be using the same chips as the iPad?

 

[Kostask]

I see a lot of comments with people talking about the new AS Macs using the same chips from the iPads. Isn’t one of the ONLY things Apple revealed that they will not be using the same chips as the iPad?

Yes they did. However, that hasn't stopped people from repeatedly speculating about it. They will repeatedly speculate on the A14Z over and over again in many threads, but happily ignore the point that Apple specifically made that the Mac will be getting its own specific SoC, however, the speculation about a non-existent A14Z runs wild. And yes, I do know that the new iPad Air, and base iPad were announced with the A14, as will the iPhone 12. I just don't see any mention yet of the A14Z, or an iPad Pro refresh.

 

[- rob -]

I think Apple will be moving to:

MacBook SE
MacBook
MacBook Pro

and iPad will do the same.

“Air” was originally due to form factor and. Now it means nothing, so calling it air is confusing and unnecessarily creates expectations about form factor.

 

[richinaus]

I think Apple will be moving to:

MacBook SE
MacBook
MacBook Pro

and iPad will do the same.

“Air” was originally due to form factor and. Now it means nothing, so calling it air is confusing and unnecessarily creates expectations about form factor.

I agree about the naming but they did just announce the IPad air so they haven’t stopped using it.

‘air’ is pointless these days and doesn’t mean much to me.
But most likely it will be :

Macbook
MacBook air
MacBook Pro

 

[CWallace]

I see a lot of comments with people talking about the new AS Macs using the same chips from the iPads. Isn’t one of the ONLY things Apple revealed that they will not be using the same chips as the iPad?

I could conceivably see the A12Z in the first Apple Silicon Mac - especially if that Mac uses the 12" MacBook form factor. The A12Z should comfortably crush the Intel Y-series the MacBook used and current MacBook Air uses and production supply is not an issue.

Then later, more powerful, Silicon Macs would use a variant of the A14 chip once production is sufficiently robust in mid-to-late 2021 to support all of the platforms that would use it (iPhone, iPad Pro and Mac).

 

[Falhófnir]

I see a lot of comments with people talking about the new AS Macs using the same chips from the iPads. Isn’t one of the ONLY things Apple revealed that they will not be using the same chips as the iPad?

Idk but various Apple execs say a lot of things that are later backtracked on. I guess you're referencing what Craig Federighi said in that video interview? I got the feeling he was getting at not using the A12Z as a basis for future Mac performance, more than dismissing the idea of sharing silicon altogether (though its been a while since I watched it). The biggest benefit of sharing an A14X between an iPad and 12" MacBook would obviously be the economy of scale. If they re-launch the MacBook I think they would probably want to get it down to at least $999 starting price, and a cheaper chip and standard battery would probably be key to saving that $300+.

Additionally the iPad Pro and MacBook are similar in being fanless designs and probably have quite a similar passive heat dissipation capacity. MacOS might put a little more strain on the chip at idle, but I don't necessarily think that would make it a bad fit. I've always just assumed they would share the A14s Firestorm and Icestorm cores across all chip SKUs in the 14th generation, just in differing configurations and different clock speeds. Having said that I don't know how well Apple core designs scale with increasing clock speeds and TDP so that might be a technical reason the Mac Silicon will be quite different/ separate.

 

[- rob -]

I agree about the naming but they did just announce the IPad air so they haven’t stopped using it.

‘air’ is pointless these days and doesn’t mean much to me.
But most likely it will be :

Macbook
MacBook air
MacBook Pro

It could very well be that it debuts this way. The Air and its Intel-based system will be wanted for some time.

I still think the se blank pro is the destiny of both lines though. It just may take a few years.

 

[d7d19285f0bd48]

Which would make sense as:

Macbook
MacBook Air
MacBook Pro

Which just happens to be the same as the iPads... ?

Yup. ??

Apple really just needs to clean up its naming conventions.
Problem is that things like iMac are too engrained.
That again I thought the same thing about PowerMac and PowerBook. ??‍♂️

Product Line	Good​	Better​	Best​
Desktop​	Mac Mini​	iMac​	Mac Pro​
Laptop	MacBook​	MacBook Air​	MacBook Pro​
Phone	iPhone SE​	iPhone​	iPhone Pro​
Tablet	iPad​	iPad Air​	iPad Pro​
Watch	Watch 3​	Watch SE​	Watch 6​

Though I think it should look more like something like this and position the "Air" as the product designation.
And then just drive people towards the "better"/base name product line.

Product Line	Good​	Better​	Best​
Desktop​	Mac Air​	Mac​	Mac Pro​
Laptop​	MacBook Air​	MacBook​	MacBook Pro​
Phone​	iPhone Air​	iPhone​	iPhone Pro​
Tablet​	iPad Air​	iPad​	iPad Pro​
Watch​	Watch Air​	Watch​	Watch Pro​

 

[thenewperson]

Yup. ??

Apple really just needs to clean up its naming conventions.
Problem is that things like iMac are too engrained.
That again I thought the same thing about PowerMac and PowerBook. ??‍♂️

Product Line	Good​	Better​	Best​
Desktop​	Mac Mini​	iMac​	Mac Pro​
Laptop	MacBook​	MacBook Air​	MacBook Pro​
Phone	iPhone SE​	iPhone​	iPhone Pro​
Tablet	iPad​	iPad Air​	iPad Pro​
Watch	Watch 3​	Watch SE​	Watch 6​

Though I think it should look more like something like this and position the "Air" as the product designation.
And then just drive people towards the "better"/base name product line.

Product Line	Good​	Better​	Best​
Desktop​	Mac Air​	Mac​	Mac Pro​
Laptop​	MacBook Air​	MacBook​	MacBook Pro​
Phone​	iPhone Air​	iPhone​	iPhone Pro​
Tablet​	iPad Air​	iPad​	iPad Pro​
Watch​	Watch Air​	Watch​	Watch Pro​

All those 'Air' products should be changed to SE, except the desktop ones because they're just too dissimilar right now to follow this simple convention.

 

[Jorbanead]

Product Line	Good​	Better​	Best​
Desktop​	Mac Air​	iMac​	Mac Pro​
Laptop​	MacBook Air​	MacBook​	MacBook Pro​
Phone​	iPhone Air​	iPhone​	iPhone Pro​
Tablet​	iPad Air​	iPad​	iPad Pro​
Watch​	Watch Air​	Watch​	Watch Pro​

I always thought the air name was confusing. To me the air name sounds like it should be the cheapest option, but I think at this point Apple has positioned the air as the ‘better’ product right before the ‘best’.

But I have a feeling Apple is going with ‘mini’ for their ‘good’ tier. Latest rumors are the small iPhone 12 will be named iPhone 12 mini. So I see something like:

Product Line	Good	Better	Best
Desktop	Mac Mini	Mac	Mac Pro
Laptop	MacBook Mini	MacBook	MacBook Pro
Phone	iPhone Mini	iPhone	iPhone Pro
Tablet	iPad Mini	iPad	iPad Pro
Watch	Watch SE	Watch	Watch Pro

The only product that doesn’t follow the mini in my plan is the watch. It’s already mini so I’m not sure how Apple would market that.

For those that claim SE should be used instead of mini, I don’t see it that way. SE stands for “Special Edition” and I think Apple will use the SE name to sell products that don’t fit into their typical lineup. Products that use an older design but with updated internal specs, and only come out once every few years to satisfy the entry-level price.

 

[Kostask]

the current iPhone SE doesn't use older tech. The better desktop is called the iMac. it will not be called just "Mac".

The iPhone 12 is supposed to consist of 4 models, so the Good, Better, Best" scheme gets blown out of the water.

 

[Jorbanead]

the current iPhone SE doesn't use older tech. The better desktop is called the iMac. it will not be called just "Mac".

I’ve tried adding in “iMac” to the chart several times and it wouldn’t work for some reason. Keeps reverting back to Mac after I post. But I agree. They would never just call it the Mac.

Never said it used older tech. I said it used an older “design” with updated internal specs. The chart is less of a prediction and more how I feel their lineup should go.

 

[thenewperson]

Never said it used older tech. I said it used an older “design” with updated internal specs. The chart is less of a prediction and more how I feel their lineup should go.

Even that's no longer consistent with the Apple Watch SE. Now the only consistent thing about 'SE' devices is that they're a mix of old and current, whatever mix that is is up to Apple.

Products that use an older design but with updated internal specs, and only come out once every few years to satisfy the entry-level price

Depending on what product line even 'Air' and 'mini' fit this description (iPad mini/Air, Mac mini, MacBook Air).

 

[Jorbanead]

Even that's no longer consistent with the Apple Watch SE. Now the only consistent thing about 'SE' devices is that they're a mix of old and current, whatever mix that is is up to Apple.Depending on what product line even 'Air' and 'mini' fit this description (iPad mini/Air, Mac mini, MacBook Air).

Yes I realize all of that: my post was not “what has apple done” it was a “this is what they should do because it’s currently confusing”