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Vrael

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 23, 2023
3
1
A few months ago I found dead pixels on the screen of my MacBook Pro. On closer inspection, I found that they were actually tiny holes.
I was terrified because my local authorised service told me it was my fault. Luckily, thanks to the helpline, I was able to send it to the main service centre in the Czech Republic.
They changed my screen and after two weeks I found a tiny hole/dead pixel again, so I sent my laptop back and they changed the screen again.

After that I was super careful, I cleaned my Mac with microfibre every day, I also used compressed air to clean the keyboard every week.

And today, after 4 months, I found 3 more tiny holes/dead pixels in similar places as before.

Do you know why this can happen?
 

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maerz001

macrumors 68030
Nov 2, 2010
2,536
2,446
Never heard of that. Dead pixels yes.
Is it a hole in the glas panel or the pixel under?
 

JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
13,554
26,176
Looks like dirt laminated between the glass and LCD. It if were "holes" then they would be white. Behind the LCD are reflective sheets of white material that hold the LEDs.
 

Furrr

macrumors member
Sep 25, 2022
69
112
Amsterdam, Nederland
Have the same pitting in my macbook pro m1 pro 16” screen.

My theory is that the tolerances between the screen and keyboard are way too small to be practical or to be a ‘pro’ laptop.

I baby my Macbook and never had this kind of nonsense with other brand laptops.

I am b*lls deep in to Apple eco system.
Love my 13 pro max, my airpods pro(!), my Apple watch Ultra (❤️❤️) and my Apple Tv.
But this is the last d*mn laptop I bought from Apple.
For the price its just ridiculous how weak the glass is of the Macbooks.

IMG_0907.jpeg
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Vrael

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 23, 2023
3
1
Have the same pitting in my macbook pro m1 pro 16” screen.

My theory is that the tolerances between the screen and keyboard are way too small to be practical or to be a ‘pro’ laptop.

I baby my Macbook and never had this kind of nonsense with other brand laptops.

I am b*lls deep in to Apple eco system.
Love my 13 pro max, my airpods pro(!), my Apple watch Ultra (❤️❤️) and my Apple Tv.
But this is the last d*mn laptop I bought from Apple.
For the price its just ridiculous how weak the glass is of the Macbooks.

View attachment 2236211 View attachment 2236212

Have you tried talking to Apple?

I still wonder what can be hard and small enough to make a pixel size hole in the screen. Maybe in some pieces this gap is even smaller?
 

Furrr

macrumors member
Sep 25, 2022
69
112
Amsterdam, Nederland
In my case I never used compressed air to clean my MacBook.

And if one did, its Apple's recommended way to clean the keyboard;
 
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Furrr

macrumors member
Sep 25, 2022
69
112
Amsterdam, Nederland
Have you tried talking to Apple?

I still wonder what can be hard and small enough to make a pixel size hole in the screen. Maybe in some pieces this gap is even smaller?

Well, the fact that the keyboard can scratch the display in a lot of cases tells me the tolerances are just way too tight to be practical. So just the smallest speck or particle can leave a pit in the display.
For a $3000 laptop this is absurd.

I have found online a lot of cases with identical issues where people searched for help at an Apple store and got send away and got blamed for it.


Post Scriptum

I'm based in the Netherlands so this, unfortunately, doesn't apply to me.

 
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JtheLemur

macrumors 6502a
May 13, 2002
696
384
It's one of these:

- You have some gnarly oil from something that ate away the material over time. Probably not this one based on photos.

- You closed the screen on some crumbs. It's very very probably this one. Crumbs are "pixel sized". The right crumb, the right application of force, and you will pit the screen.
 

wilberforce

macrumors 68030
Aug 15, 2020
2,932
3,210
SF Bay Area
I can understand why people would be skeptical of "holes" in the screen, but apparently this really is a thing, there are threads going back at least to 2012 where holes have been (allegedly) caused by "exploding" pixels.

Here is just one relatively recent thread:

btw, I am not taking sides here, but just because something seems implausible does not necessarily mean it is not true. (An example: quantum entanglement.)
 
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Vrael

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 23, 2023
3
1
It's one of these:

- You have some gnarly oil from something that ate away the material over time. Probably not this one based on photos.

- You closed the screen on some crumbs. It's very very probably this one. Crumbs are "pixel sized". The right crumb, the right application of force, and you will pit the screen.

First of all, Apple has just replaced my screen for the third time.

As for crumbs - maybe it's true, but it's also Apple's fault. It is impossible to clean your keyboard to be perfectly clean every time. I also use other laptops and treat them far worse than my MacBook and nothing happens to their screens...
 

okkibs

macrumors 65816
Sep 17, 2022
1,070
1,005
On the other hand the majority of these devices do not have this issue, I carry my 14" around in a full backpack every day and don't treat it particularly carefully. I do wipe screen and keyboard clean every couple weeks but that's just so I can see something on the screen and not be grossed out by keyboard gunk. And I do use the padded laptop pouch to avoid pressure spots.

There was a thread here a while ago where someone's Mac had some keys permanently imprinted on the display and it turned out they just put the Mac into their backpack randomly with other things that can put pressure on the display - as well as another thread with a bent iPad and again they were not using a backpack with a proper tablet pouch that removes the pressure from the other contents of the backpack.

I get that these are Pro devices. That doesn't mean we should skip taking good care of them. For actually getting the keys clean for example, I lock the screen and then wipe each key and in between the keys with a cloth damp with 99.9% isopropyl alcohol. It takes about 2 minutes out of every week, the alcohol prevents moisture from getting in the device as it evaporates immediately, and the keyboard is spotless afterwards. (Never use alcohol on the screen!)

After 3 defective panels either Apple has a serious QC problem and installed you defective replacement parts twice in a row, which is entirely possible, or given that the Mac is returned to you without holes in the new panel and then breaks within a couple weeks it does seem more likely, to me, that the issue comes from how you use the device. Or in what environment - mine sits on an office desk all day, if it was used on the test stand of a factory with some sort of particles in the air I might have more issues.

I fully admit that older Macbooks were more robust for sure, reducing the display bezels and all that is only possible up to a point before the risk of damage increases. Apple must be testing different iterations of their designs to see how much optimization can be done (we now have 14" displays in Macbooks that would have only fit 13" just a few years ago) without increasing the risk of damage considerably. Or thickness of the device vs. gap between display and keyboard. The current design in Apple's opinion will be what the majority of customers want (reception of this design was extremely positive) without increasing the risk of early defects. To put this differently, I highly doubt Apple designs a laptop where a lot of customers need 3 replacement panels within the first year of standard warranty. Apple would do themselves no favors if their design was so bad. That's assuming they learned from the butterfly keyboard disaster.

I can understand why people would be skeptical of "holes" in the screen, but apparently this really is a thing, there are threads going back at least to 2012 where holes have been (allegedly) caused by "exploding" pixels.
If it was a widespread issue since 2012, surely there would have been a "pixelgate" like the bendgate or the butterfly keyboard issues. I am sure a very small fraction of Macbook users had such an issue to do an actual manufacturing defect, but what are the chances of the exact same issue three times in a row?

Part of this says that some of the affected devices have their display panels break "within hours of powering up the first time" and that just can't be right:

In reality, the case alleges, “not everything ‘look stunning on the 13-inch Retina display,’ especially not the cracking, blacking out, or magenta, purple and blue lines and squares” that manifest within hours of powering up the M1 MacBook for the first time, an experience the lawsuit alleges is “consistent” among those who purchased the laptops.[/s]

So these Macs come defective from the factory, which happens, and then Apple immediately claims user error on a 1 day old purchase?

I know at least 1 such case personally, that for me sheds some light on these cases: A friend got a new MBP that had defective pixels right from day one, but he needed the device for work and didn't go to Apple with it immediately. He went to Apple in the 2nd year on the assumption that the warranty runs for two years and then was denied a free replacement. From his perspective Apple refused to fix an issue the Mac came with from the factory and was super upset even though it obviously didn't bother him enough to bring it in for a year and then he didn't read the warranty terms either. To top it off he blamed Apple for not fixing an out of warranty issue for free.

Now I can't take such reports all that seriously anymore...

Czech Republic.
You might want to check your laws for these repairs, or at least ask Apple nicely what they would do if the same warranty repair is unsuccessful twice in a row. Perhaps they could consider replacing the entire device for you, what if there is actually a manufacturing defect with your unit with the tolerances between keyboard and panel that lead to this. Or at the very least they could consider a repair that's a little more in-depth than just swapping the same part every time without asking why this keeps happening. Because eventually you'll run out of the warranty and then they won't fix anything for free.

You should also have the option of purchasing AC+ in the days after a repair, that might be worthwhile for you - if the issue appeared 3 times, it will likely have something to do with how you use the device and then the issue will come back again. Or you could sell the working unit before it happens again out of warranty. Once it happens out of warranty you can't sell the device for much anymore and a paid display replacement will be very expensive.[/s]
 
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