MacBook Pro 16" M2 Max Monitor Questions

[Standard]

Hi everyone,

I've decided to purchase a loaded MacBook Pro 16" for my 3d work. I have a few questions. I'm looking at purchasing the LG 32" 4k Ultrafine Ergo monitor.

1. Would the machine be fine to drive 2 of these monitors plus a 24" Cintiq Pro, or should I really be looking at 2 monitors max?

2. Lastly, I see people use their machines in clam shell mode. In my case, will this be fine for heavy vfx and real-time work? I do not know if the heat will cause any damage to the screen?

3. Are there any considerations for keeping the machine plugged in? How should I manage this, to not kill battery longevity as I will need the machine plugged in for the majority of the time.

Thank you.

 

[livmatus]

1. the M2 Max chip will handle it all

2. shouldn't really be an issue, it's surrounded by aluminium after all

3. install Al Dente and set the charge threshold to somewhere between 70-90% ... I use my M1 Air mostly plugged in with such settings, sometimes I let it charge to 100% ... and use it on battery when needed... after 2.5 years I have 109 cycles and 95% battery health

 

[okkibs]

As long as you don't have the M2 Pro, more than 2 external screens are no problem. It's called clamshell mode and heat is not a problem.

For the battery, whether you use it or not it will be shot after 3-4 years regardless as lithium ion batteries age irrespective of use and long-term health seems to come down to pure luck. To prevent damage from not using it at all you should discharge it to somewhere below 50% once a month, that's about all there is to it. You can use apps like al dente but to me they seem not to be backed by actual proof that they improve battery health. They can automate the regular discharging but then I personally don't need an app to use a Macbook unplugged for a couple hours every month.

 

[JPack]

It'll support three external monitors if you choose M2 Max.

The computer will handle the battery health automatically. If you keep your computer plugged in for 1-2 weeks, macOS will automatically put charging on hold and reduce to 70-80%. As long as the battery doesn't stay at extreme states of charge, it'll last much longer.

Heat is not an issue in clam shell mode. Fans push out heat before it accumulates.

 

[mr_jomo]

Just a quick thought - with that kind of application, expected clamshell mode, and desktop setup, have you considered one of the mac Studios as a possible alternative? You might be able get an Ultra for the same budget?

 

[IncreasinglyFrustrated]

It'll support three external monitors if you choose M2 Max.

The M2 Max supports four external displays natively, plus at least another six 1080P monitors @ 60fps via DisplayLink, (or 4k monitors at 30fps); along with an iPad via Sidecar.

Right now, I'm driving 9 displays without any issues; (internal XDR 16", Pro XDR 32", 2x ASD 27", Dell 38" UW, 2x ViewSonic VG9395M 19", 1 LG C2 42", and a 10.1" iPad).

 

[Standard]

1. the M2 Max chip will handle it all

2. shouldn't really be an issue, it's surrounded by aluminium after all

3. install Al Dente and set the charge threshold to somewhere between 70-90% ... I use my M1 Air mostly plugged in with such settings, sometimes I let it charge to 100% ... and use it on battery when needed... after 2.5 years I have 109 cycles and 95% battery health

Thank you for your feedback! This is great to hear. I will look into Al Dente in the meantime while I wait for my machine to arrive.

As long as you don't have the M2 Pro, more than 2 external screens are no problem. It's called clamshell mode and heat is not a problem.

For the battery, whether you use it or not it will be shot after 3-4 years regardless as lithium ion batteries age irrespective of use and long-term health seems to come down to pure luck. To prevent damage from not using it at all you should discharge it to somewhere below 50% once a month, that's about all there is to it. You can use apps like al dente but to me they seem not to be backed by actual proof that they improve battery health. They can automate the regular discharging but then I personally don't need an app to use a Macbook unplugged for a couple hours every month.

Thank you for the detailed information on the batteries. With my old MacBook Pro's, it was always suggested to not keep them plugged in. I also noticed that AppleCare has changed. Apparently even after 3 years we can purchase yearly AppleCare for years to come. Great to hear that they are finally supporting these purchases after the standard 3 year term. I guess the shift to Apple Silicon has something to do with this?

It'll support three external monitors if you choose M2 Max.

The computer will handle the battery health automatically. If you keep your computer plugged in for 1-2 weeks, macOS will automatically put charging on hold and reduce to 70-80%. As long as the battery doesn't stay at extreme states of charge, it'll last much longer.

Heat is not an issue in clam shell mode. Fans push out heat before it accumulates.

Excellent! Thanks for the information.

Just a quick thought - with that kind of application, expected clamshell mode, and desktop setup, have you considered one of the mac Studios as a possible alternative? You might be able get an Ultra for the same budget?

The Mac Studio was my first choice, the Pro not so much anymore as I have no need for the expansion cards. However, I'd rather invest into a loaded Studio when M3 is released. With the speculated improvements of 3nm, I just think it would be a better purchase for me at that time. Plus, having a capable laptop will be great, especially with the possibility of travel in the future.

The M2 Max supports four external displays natively, plus at least another six 1080P monitors @ 60fps via DisplayLink, (or 4k monitors at 30fps); along with an iPad via Sidecar.

Right now, I'm driving 9 displays without any issues; (internal XDR 16", Pro XDR 32", 2x ASD 27", Dell 38" UW, 2x ViewSonic VG9395M 19", 1 LG C2 42", and a 10.1" iPad).

Wow! What sort of work are you doing to drive that many monitors? I've always had neck issues with using dual displays. I cannot imaging running 9!

Another question for you all. I've ordered my my monitors and they will both be plugged into my MacBook Pro with USB-C. How does this work for charging the battery? If I am running the machine with a heavy workflow, or rendering, can I plug the actual power cord into the machine? Or will this cause damage? The reason I ask is because with my old 2018 MacBook Pro, the USB-C from my old monitor was not capable of charging during heavy use.

Thanks to everyone again for your input, appreciated.

 

[IncreasinglyFrustrated]

Wow! What sort of work are you doing to drive that many monitors? I've always had neck issues with using dual displays. I cannot imaging running 9!

Another question for you all. I've ordered my my monitors and they will both be plugged into my MacBook Pro with USB-C. How does this work for charging the battery? If I am running the machine with a heavy workflow, or rendering, can I plug the actual power cord into the machine? Or will this cause damage? The reason I ask is because with my old 2018 MacBook Pro, the USB-C from my old monitor was not capable of charging during heavy use.

I work as a tech consultant across several industries. Having a ton of monitors helps keep up with whatever odd task a client might dream up; (most recently, lots of multi-device streaming video work). There's also a huge competitive/productivity advantage that comes with being able to monitor multiple Teams & Slack chats, build radiators & log dashboards, console & security feeds, etc. all at once.

As for TB/USB charging, the charger that came with my MBP M2 is still in the box. 65w/85w of PD from a monitor seems to be more than enough. In fact, I received it on 1/29 with 2 battery cycles, and now I'm at 3 -- that should tell you how often the workload overruns the charging.

 

[theorist9]

Wow! What sort of work are you doing to drive that many monitors? I've always had neck issues with using dual displays. I cannot imaging running 9!

I've found two displays is too few when it comes to neck issues rather than too many–which is why I instead use three.

With two displays, you either have them arranged symmetrically, which I really don't like, since your neck is always under a bit of tension because it's always turned either left or right; or you have one straight-on, and the other on one side, which means your neck doesn't turn to both sides equally, and that's not good in the long term.

Thus three monitors—a central one that's straight-on, and one postioned on each side (at an angle, facing you) is far better, IME.

Do you plan to use that sort of setup, in which the Cintiq Pro is the third display, or will the Cintiq Pro be flat, in which case your neck might benefit from a third display other than the Cintiq?

If it's the latter, and you don't want to spring for a third external, you could use the MBP as your third monitor (just elevate it to keep it vertically aligned with the big ones; an M-design Rain Stand works great for this; plus it protects it from spills, which you'd want to do anyways, even if it's in clamshell mode).

 

[okkibs]

With my old MacBook Pro's, it was always suggested to not keep them plugged in. I also noticed that AppleCare has changed. Apparently even after 3 years we can purchase yearly AppleCare for years to come. Great to hear that they are finally supporting these purchases after the standard 3 year term. I guess the shift to Apple Silicon has something to do with this?

Batteries like to be used somewhat regularly, so not keeping it plugged in is better than always plugged in. Discharging once a month is about the bare minimum. Leaving a battery at 100% for a long time damages it. That's the reason. Yearly AC+ has been an option for a while and has nothing to do with device quality, it's primarily that Apple saw that it will increase revenue bottom line, Apple makes a lot of money with tacking on upgrade after upgrade and selling extra warranties. I get the longer warranties for peace of mind anyways, it's worth the price to me. But make no mistake, on average Apple is the one who profits from it, not the customer, otherwise Apple wouldn't offer it. Devices usually fail from manufacturing issues within the first year or live a long time and keeping yearly AC+ for 6+ years where failures start to increase won't really make sense financially.

 

[Standard]

I work as a tech consultant across several industries. Having a ton of monitors helps keep up with whatever odd task a client might dream up; (most recently, lots of multi-device streaming video work). There's also a huge competitive/productivity advantage that comes with being able to monitor multiple Teams & Slack chats, build radiators & log dashboards, console & security feeds, etc. all at once.

As for TB/USB charging, the charger that came with my MBP M2 is still in the box. 65w/85w of PD from a monitor seems to be more than enough. In fact, I received it on 1/29 with 2 battery cycles, and now I'm at 3 -- that should tell you how often the workload overruns the charging.

That definitely makes sense! I can imagine how nice it would be to not have to toggle multiple windows for all of those applications. As for the charging, sounds good. Thanks for the information.

I've found two displays is too few when it comes to neck issues rather than too many–which is why I instead use three.

With two displays, you either have them arranged symmetrically, which I really don't like, since your neck is always under a bit of tension because it's always turned either left or right; or you have one straight-on, and the other on one side, which means your neck doesn't turn to both sides equally, and that's not good in the long term.

Thus three monitors—a central one that's straight-on, and one postioned on each side (at an angle, facing you) is far better, IME.

Do you plan to use that sort of setup, in which the Cintiq Pro is the third display, or will the Cintiq Pro be flat, in which case your neck might benefit from a third display other than the Cintiq?

If it's the latter, and you don't want to spring for a third external, you could use the MBP as your third monitor (just elevate it to keep it vertically aligned with the big ones; an M-design Rain Stand works great for this; plus it protects it from spills, which you'd want to do anyways, even if it's in clamshell mode).

What you have described is exactly the problem I have encountered. Then my neck is always wrenched. At the moment with my Cintiq, I have my existing monitor above it. It works well however, I don't have another arm for the monitor so it's unfortunately set back further, which makes the experience uncomfortable.

I've actually modified my original plans for this setup. Instead of using the Cintiq, I will leave that on my Windows machine and use a new pen tablet with the Mac Book Pro. I'd rather utilize the screen real estate on my new 32" monitors instead of my 24" Cintiq. I've ordered the Twelve South BookArc for my stand. I do not believe I will be able to make a vertical stack with the 32" Ultrafine monitors, but I will try. If I am unable to, my best bet will likely be to do what you outlined above, one as a primary display head on, and the other off to the side facing me. My secondary monitor will primarily be used for reference and maybe shader networks and render views. I'll see once I am up and running.

Batteries like to be used somewhat regularly, so not keeping it plugged in is better than always plugged in. Discharging once a month is about the bare minimum. Leaving a battery at 100% for a long time damages it. That's the reason. Yearly AC+ has been an option for a while and has nothing to do with device quality, it's primarily that Apple saw that it will increase revenue bottom line, Apple makes a lot of money with tacking on upgrade after upgrade and selling extra warranties. I get the longer warranties for peace of mind anyways, it's worth the price to me. But make no mistake, on average Apple is the one who profits from it, not the customer, otherwise Apple wouldn't offer it. Devices usually fail from manufacturing issues within the first year or live a long time and keeping yearly AC+ for 6+ years where failures start to increase won't really make sense financially.

I will of course be removing it from the desktop frequently, at least once a day. Thank you for the information. I understand that Apple earns from the warranty, but like you said, peace of mind. My old MBP's used to die out of warranty and it was very costly to replace the logic boards, as everyone knows. It's just nice that we have this option now.

 

[theorist9]

Yearly AC+ has been an option for a while and has nothing to do with device quality, it's primarily that Apple saw that it will increase revenue bottom line, Apple makes a lot of money with tacking on upgrade after upgrade and selling extra warranties. I get the longer warranties for peace of mind anyways, it's worth the price to me. But make no mistake, on average Apple is the one who profits from it, not the customer, otherwise Apple wouldn't offer it.

True, Apple wouldn't do it if they lost money on it. However, that doesn't mean it's not also a good deal for the customer, at least relative to having it repaired by Apple.

Consider this: Suppose the customer's cost for a logic board replacement on a MacBook Pro is $500, while the cost to Apple for that repair is $250. They could price AC+ (and I suspect they actually do) such that, while a net profit for Apple, also saves the customer money over what their averge repair expenses would be through Apple.

Devices usually fail from manufacturing issues within the first year or live a long time and keeping yearly AC+ for 6+ years where failures start to increase won't really make sense financially.

Squaretrade, which does electronics warranties, published data in 2015 on laptop warranty claims rates that indicates otherwise. They found the % of laptops needing repair increases approximately linearly with time from purchase, indicating the failure rate is approximately constant (i.e., it was something like 10% need a warranty repair within 1 year, 20% within 2 years, etc.). Unfortunately, they've taken down their graphs, so I can't link it.

Interestingly, every Mac I've owned (other than my 2003 Power Mac G5, which never failed during the six years I used it) has needed AC+ repair in Y3. That lists consists of my 2008, 2011, and 2014 15" MacBook Pros, and my 2019 27" iMac. But I expect my experience is atypical.

 

[okkibs]

Squaretrade, which does electronics warranties, published data in 2015 on laptop warranty claims rates that indicates otherwise. They found the % of laptops needing repair increases approximately linearly with time from purchase, indicating the failure rate is approximately constant

But that will include the cheapest trash hardware, if you look at high-end series like Macbooks only a few really terrible models like the flexgate-butterfly 2016 MBP models should be that bad.

Interestingly, every Mac I've owned (other than my 2003 Power Mac G5, which never failed during the six years I used it) has needed AC+ repair in Y3. That lists consists of my 2008, 2011, and 2014 15" MacBook Pros, and my 2019 27" iMac. But I expect my experience is atypical.

Okay, 2008 and 2011 if they were 15" models then it's clear they'd fail with the graphics issue, but there were some really bad Macs with such grave defects that a lot of them died way too early. On the other hand I know people who still rock Macbooks from 2009-2010 today where maybe a USB port is broken but otherwise these Macs still work just fine. Macs without manufacturing defects should last a decade easily and that's been my experience as well.

However, that doesn't mean it's not also a good deal for the customer, at least relative to having it repaired by Apple.

Sure, relative to Apple's repair prices outside of warranty it looks like a good deal, but that's because Apple's repair prices are insane. They now charge flat rate prices for all repairs however minor the issue may be. If you bring in a M1/M2 Macbook for any issue whatsoever that requires a repair you can expect one of three flat rate prices, the first being for a minor issue like a defective speaker coming in at around $300, the second coming in at $500-$800 depending on the model for any issue with display or logic board, sometimes Apple will bill both of these combined for a single repair as minor things like flex cables might be damaged too and count as a minor repair. And the third is if any liquid damage indicators are enabled, then you're looking at $1200-$1500 (the highest price is always for the 16" MBP).

Here is one example from the real world with a repair done by Apple on a M1 Macbook (I think it was the first gen M1 13" MBP), the battery was defective and needed replacing, the Mac worked just fine still. The repair was done under warranty, otherwise you'd expect to be hit with the battery replacement fee and that's it, right? Nope, they claimed to have found issues with the trackpad and replaced that as well, and out of warranty this battery replacement would have cost more than twice the battery replacement cost coming in at over $500.

And that's for a fully functioning Macbook where the battery was swelling, which even out of warranty and even if the battery damaged the trackpad (which was still working when handing it over to Apple) should be covered by the $249 battery replacement fee.

Anything goes wrong with these M1/M2 devices and you're easily looking at $500-$1000 for every single repair you ask Apple to do over the years. For something like a $1599 base model 14" M1 Pro if it needs just a single repair out of warranty it's already questionable if that's financially reasonable and two repairs can cost as much as the entire device cost years ago when it was bought.

 

[theorist9]

But that will include the cheapest trash hardware, if you look at high-end series like Macbooks only a few really terrible models like the flexgate-butterfly 2016 MBP models should be that bad.

The question we were discussing here wasn't how good or bad the reliability was, it was whether the shape of the failure curve is as you were claiming, where you have an initial peak, and then it flattens out....

Devices usually fail from manufacturing issues within the first year or live a long time and keeping yearly AC+ for 6+ years where failures start to increase won't really make sense financially.

....or if it instead increases roughly linearly with time.

[Neither of these equate to "good" or "bad". If either the first or second curve shape had low failure rates, both would be good. If they both had high failure rates, both would be bad.]

Based on what I recall from what Squaretrade published (and yes, they did have a separate curve for Mac laptops), the curve shape for all the brands, including Apple, corresponded to a roughly linear increase in failures with time, rather than what you were describing. I know your claim is commonly-made, but have you seen any actual data for Mac laptops that backs it up?