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Macbook Pro 2017 13" Touch Bar vs. Non-Touch Bar

R

robotics5000

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jun 22, 2014
12
0
Hi,

I was deciding between getting the 13" Touch Bar (Intel Core i5-7267U) vs the 13" Non-Touch Bar (Intel Core i5-7360U). The i5-7267U is clocked at 3.1GHz while the i5-7360U is clocked at 2.3GHz.

I was looking at online Geekbench benchmark tests comparing the two processors so I could see exactly how much faster the touch-bar model is. However, I found that the 13" base model with the i5-7360U had higher single and multi-core performance numbers than its more powerful counterpart, the i5-7267U...

How is this possible?

Attached are the pictures of what I found.

Single Core:
Screenshot_20170803-105604.png

Multi-Core:
Screenshot_20170803-105434.png
 
robotics5000 said:
Hi,

I was deciding between getting the 13" Touch Bar (Intel Core i5-7267U) vs the 13" Non-Touch Bar (Intel Core i5-7360U). The i5-7267U is clocked at 3.1GHz while the i5-7360U is clocked at 2.3GHz.

I was looking at online Geekbench benchmark tests comparing the two processors so I could see exactly how much faster the touch-bar model is. However, I found that the 13" base model with the i5-7360U had higher single and multi-core performance numbers than its more powerful counterpart, the i5-7267U...

How is this possible?

Attached are the pictures of what I found.

Single Core:
View attachment 711424

Multi-Core:
View attachment 711423
Click to expand...

Well, different tests may lead to different results. Let me give you an explanation which is by no means technical, but more of an educated guess.

The Core i5-7360U is a 15W processor with base clock rate at 2.3 GHz, but which can go up to 3.6 GHz (both single and dual core). The Core i5-7267U is a 28W processor with base clock at 3.1 GHz, but which can go up to 3.5 GHz, both single and dual core. So, while the Core i5-7267U has a faster processor at base clock speeds (most of the time), the Core i5-7360U can go faster when it is required (difference, though, is minimal, and the Core i5-7267U should be faster most of the times). In addition, the Core i5-7267U has a faster GPU than the Core i5-7360U.
 
Also keep in mind:
  • They battery for the TB is smaller by about 25% when battery life is measured (see notebookcheck review)
  • These CPUs may be able to go fast but the laptops are so thin and light that there isn't sufficient cooling to keep them going fast for long. They'll be throttled after a few seconds.
  • The TB has had a higher thermal envelope and faster GPU but the smaller battery means this is more than cancelled out.
I haven't had any serious argument to tell me to get anything other than a base model CPU with the nonTB biggest battery.

Why pay hundreds more for power you can't use ?
 
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project_2501 said:
Also keep in mind:
  • They battery for the TB is smaller by about 25% when battery life is measured (see notebookcheck review)
  • These CPUs may be able to go fast but the laptops are so thin and light that there isn't sufficient cooling to keep them going fast for long. They'll be throttled after a few seconds.
  • The TB has had a higher thermal envelope and faster GPU but the smaller battery means this is more than cancelled out.
I haven't had any serious argument to tell me to get anything other than a base model CPU with the nonTB biggest battery.

Why pay hundreds more for power you can't use ?
Click to expand...

The reviews I've seen show performance drops in the nonTB under stress because, as you say, the cooling is inadequate.

The Kaby Lake processor from the entry-level model has the designation Core i5-7360U and the base frequency for the two cores is 2.3 GHz, but the maximum Turbo Boost is 3.6 GHz for both cores. However, this speed can only be maintained for a couple of seconds. Apple removes the usual TDP limitation at 15 watts, but the two CPU cores quickly reach core temperatures of more than 90 °C, so they have to reduce the clocks.
Click to expand...

The cooling solution of the MacBook Pro 13 is challenged by the high clocks of the Kaby Lake processor. Sustained workloads simulated by a Cinebench R15 Multi loop results in a performance drop.
Click to expand...

The TB, with superior cooling, does not show the same drops.

The processor can maintain its performance under sustained workloads. A loop of the Cinebench R15 Multi Test determines a steady score after 20 runs; the only small outlier was probably affected by a background process.
Click to expand...

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-13-Mid-2017-i5-Touch-Bar-Review.227154.0.html

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple...017-i5-without-Touch-Bar-Review.234282.0.html
 
Last edited:
Yup, summing up gjwilly's post above, but click on his notebookcheck.net links to read in detail:

  • MBP nTB = lower wattage CPU, one cooling fan, higher max turbo speed, throttles under heavy load
  • MBP wTB = higher wattage CPU, two cooling fans, slightly lower turbo speed, sustains speed under heavy load
  • Light tasks such as web browsing, email, watching movies, might be faster benchmark-wise on the nTB because of the higher max turbo. Hands-on though, I doubt you'd be able to notice the difference between the two.
  • wTB would obviously be best suited for heavier tasks, but that depends on what heavy means to you.
  • Heat and fan noise could also help separate the two models.
 
I'm curious...

I noticed the TB MBP has two narrow, slits running vertically on the under paneling of the computer while the nTB does not. I under the TB needs to dissipate more heat but would it be advantageous to purchase a TB's under paneling and attach it to a non touch bar?

I feel like this would allow more heat to escape and may allow a slightly heavier load before throttling.
 
Jamalogo10 said:
I'm curious...

I noticed the TB MBP has two narrow, slits running vertically on the under paneling of the computer while the nTB does not. I under the TB needs to dissipate more heat but would it be advantageous to purchase a TB's under paneling and attach it to a non touch bar?

I feel like this would allow more heat to escape and may allow a slightly heavier load before throttling.
Click to expand...

I didn't know this - another design point that separates the two. They should have just shaved the front bottom like the MacBook 12" and dubbed the nTB the New MacBook Air instead of calling it a Pro.
 
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Jamalogo10 said:
I'm curious...

I noticed the TB MBP has two narrow, slits running vertically on the under paneling of the computer while the nTB does not. I under the TB needs to dissipate more heat but would it be advantageous to purchase a TB's under paneling and attach it to a non touch bar?

I feel like this would allow more heat to escape and may allow a slightly heavier load before throttling.
Click to expand...

Those are the intakes for the cooling system. The TB has two fans that draw air in those slits and pushes it out the back. I dont think putting another hole where there's no air movement would really help with cooling the nTB.
 
Last edited:
Gjwilly said:
Those are the intakes for the cooling system. The TB has two fans that draw air in those slits and pushes it out the back. I dont think putting another hole where there's no air movement would really help with cooling the nTB.
Click to expand...

And the nTB doesn't have a single slit and yet it has a fan. Letting the residual heat escape seems like it may have an affect.
 
After spending two weeks with the 12" retina mb 1.1ghz 2016 model, the machine put itself to sleep when outdoors in 80-90˚ weather. Without a fan, it's hard for a machine to keep up with Zoom screen sharing, Photoshop, and Chrome running at the same time. Perhaps with 13" nTB 2.3ghz 2017 with one fan might be enough to keep it cool under heavy use. I'd still consider the 13" wTB 3.1ghz with two fans, because I don't want to experience the machine lagging or shutting down under heavy load, when I'm in a client video conference. Do you guys think the CPU temperature for the 3.1ghz wTB is going to run cool enough to keep comfortable on your lap, or will it get hot too under heavy load? (heavy load is running Zoom Video Screen Sharing, Chrome with 15 tabs, and Photoshop with 15 artboards and 150 layers.)
 
I really really wanted, to get the nTB model. I wanted more battery, I wanted a lower CPU/TDP, and honestly I could live with the slightly declocked GPU.

What scared me away was the cooling performance, as others have mentioned in this thread already, and elsewhere on the forum, that a single fan in this new form factor doesn't really work properly, whenever the going gets slightly tough, with the TB model you have two slightly smaller fans which given the same load A. May not need to spin up at all (consider both the nTB models need to turbo to get up to 3.1GHz for example) B. When they do, there's twice the fans so they'll spin approximately* half the speed (they're smaller so it may be 60% of the speed required by the nTB model).

In some ways its a shame, if they made just TB models with all 5 processor, I would've gone for the lowest i5 model, because it would've been easier to cool a 15W TDP processor with the same cooling solution being used for a 28W TDP processor.

But they didn't, so I went for the lowest processor with the best cooling solution.
 
Conza said:
I really really wanted, to get the nTB model. I wanted more battery, I wanted a lower CPU/TDP, and honestly I could live with the slightly declocked GPU.

What scared me away was the cooling performance, as others have mentioned in this thread already, and elsewhere on the forum, that a single fan in this new form factor doesn't really work properly, whenever the going gets slightly tough, with the TB model you have two slightly smaller fans which given the same load A. May not need to spin up at all (consider both the nTB models need to turbo to get up to 3.1GHz for example) B. When they do, there's twice the fans so they'll spin approximately* half the speed (they're smaller so it may be 60% of the speed required by the nTB model).

In some ways its a shame, if they made just TB models with all 5 processor, I would've gone for the lowest i5 model, because it would've been easier to cool a 15W TDP processor with the same cooling solution being used for a 28W TDP processor.

But they didn't, so I went for the lowest processor with the best cooling solution.
Click to expand...
maybe try that speed holes:)

 
Last edited:
Don't really get it? The TB has intakes on the side of the device where as the nTB doesn't, so I'm guessing those are your "speed holes"?
 
I’m ordering a nTB 2017 refurb MacBook Pro Friday as it is tax free weekend here in TN. The only “upgrade” is a 256GB SSD but otherwise base specs appear to be more than enough. I can’t justify $500more for the TB model.

Edit: It’s $90 more for the Touch Bar model.
 
Last edited:
Yes 100% it's worth $90. Basically if you just want a web browser/email viewer, very low power usage, the nTB model will probably be ok. Anything at all intensive, movie watching, any game (even web), any program that is not basic, get the TB because it has twice the cooling fans and has far less thermal throttling issues.
 
Conza said:
Yes 100% it's worth $90. Basically if you just want a web browser/email viewer, very low power usage, the nTB model will probably be ok. Anything at all intensive, movie watching, any game (even web), any program that is not basic, get the TB because it has twice the cooling fans and has far less thermal throttling issues.
Click to expand...
This purchase will need to last 1 year in undergrad and at least 4 years in medical school. I can’t afford a 2018 MacBook Pro or else would do that but can make a 2017 refurb work. I’m likely going to stretch it out to get the TB model after reading many similar complaints of the nTB model.
 
GuruZac said:
This purchase will need to last 1 year in undergrad and at least 4 years in medical school. I can’t afford a 2018 MacBook Pro or else would do that but can make a 2017 refurb work. I’m likely going to stretch it out to get the TB model after reading many similar complaints of the nTB model.
Click to expand...

If I was you I would try to buy a 2015 MacBook Pro.
 
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