MacBook Pro is showing issues again...

[0989382]

This is my second MBP with issues. My 2017 had recurring screen issues which were covered under Apple Care but eventually with complaining they gave me a refund or the option to add money towards a 2018 model. I put in another £700 for the 2018 TouchBar with 512GB - just what I needed. And it's amazing. But now, as well as the keyboard self-scratching the screen again and having to spend 5 minutes every morning giving it a good cleaning, the keyboard has decided to leave double spaces and sometimes miss a space.

I'm a bit fed up. I just got an iPhone XR too two weeks ago and I'm liking it, mostly due to the ecosystem but I'm seriously considering leaving the ecosystem altogether really now.

Because any other Mac portable with this power I need for work is the same computer... anything less and it's technically not able to keep up.

What to replace both with is the question, had lousy experiences on a cheap ThinkPad before etc but if I spent Mac money, or at least just go for a rougher experience, maybe I'd be better taking back the £1,000 into my savings and settling for less. At least I'd not need to lose sleep over scratches and stuff.

Any advice or pointers?

 

[SDColorado]

This is my second MBP with issues. My 2017 had recurring screen issues which were covered under Apple Care but eventually with complaining they gave me a refund or the option to add money towards a 2018 model. I put in another £700 for the 2018 TouchBar with 512GB - just what I needed. And it's amazing. But now, as well as the keyboard self-scratching the screen again and having to spend 5 minutes every morning giving it a good cleaning, the keyboard has decided to leave double spaces and sometimes miss a space.

I'm a bit fed up. I just got an iPhone XR too two weeks ago and I'm liking it, mostly due to the ecosystem but I'm seriously considering leaving the ecosystem altogether really now.

Because any other Mac portable with this power I need for work is the same computer... anything less and it's technically not able to keep up.

What to replace both with is the question, had lousy experiences on a cheap ThinkPad before etc but if I spent Mac money, or at least just go for a rougher experience, maybe I'd be better taking back the £1,000 into my savings and settling for less. At least I'd not need to lose sleep over scratches and stuff.

Any advice or pointers?

I feel for you man. I am on #5 with the 2018 models and a couple of days ago had the "e" key become unresponsive on this one. After mashing it several times it began to be responsive again and has been since then. But I don't have much faith of long term reliability for it. I am guessing it will have to go in for a keyboard replacement sooner rather than later, but keeping my fingers crossed that I am wrong and that it was just a fluke.

 

[chabig]

but I'm seriously considering leaving the ecosystem altogether really now.

Do it. Get the ThinkPad.

 

[0989382]

I don't know if Apple will give me a refund, given my track record with the other Mac maybe. Here's my ideas:

- Buy a sleeper crap HP junker of a laptop for about £5/600 with a good i5, SSD etc, with performance to do work

OR

- Buy a Surface GO, and a portable mini ITX tower to take between offices and use the Surface personally.

OR

- Buy a £600-£1000 "gaming" laptop which is good on the performance / bullet proof build

OR

- Buy a Mac mini to take between offices and an iPad for personal use

OR

- Buy an expensive ThinkPad or something with the same money as the Mac cost

OR

- Buy a Surface Pro 6 (very curious about 2-in-1s)



So much choice... The big difference being Windows. I've accepted that no Windows machine at any budget will have all of these: the amazing display colour, the Apple sturdiness, the amazing speakers, macOS, decent trackpad, reasonable battery life, integration with iOS etc...

BUT. In sayings that, I'm nearly finished university and my requirements are changing. I'm now, for the first time in my life, working 9-5 on my Mac and it's beautiful suite of apps. But when I get free time, I don't want to sit for hours on my Mac anymore. Hence why a tablet might be nicer for outside work. My Mac is plugged in all day, so the good battery life doesn't really affect me as much as I think it will. I drive so much that I don't have time or place to use it 'on the go'. Starbucks etc has power outlets.

At work, I noticed neck strain and will need new monitors anyway, meaning the fantastic Retina display is sort of gathering dust. The Apple unibody is beautiful, but it scratches and gets dents and is basically irreplaceable given its cost outside of warranty and glued on components. I use my phone for music and headphones at work for great audio and in the car too. I can't play videos or things out loud in the offices anyway as it disturbs others, so a good pair of B&W headphones replace this.

I've been using Windows 10 more and more at work and I know what to expect now. It's actually quite Apple like these days when fixing printer issues for people. The only annoying thing is it doesn't work with iCloud or iPhone as well (but if the Mac goes, the iPhone goes... that's for a different thread). The decent trackpad will be missed, but then if I'm docking it to a display at work again it won't matter so much. My long term health and ergonomics sort of rule it out anyway.
[doublepost=1548712939][/doublepost]

Do it. Get the ThinkPad.

Which ThinkPad? There's so many in a close price bracket.

I had an E470 which was total junk unfortunately. Apparently, "it wasn't a real ThinkPad" which nobody told me until I bought it D:

 

[Blaze4G]

Get a Thinkpad X1 Carbon.

If you need a graphics card get the Thinkpad X1 Extreme.

Thinkpads are easy to work on imo except for the P series. Not that it's hard to work on just screws everywhere lol. I can have the X1 carbon fully disassembled in 20 mins.

Don't think you should have a problem keeping your XR and use a Windows laptop.

I personally use one drive to auto sync any files I save on my laptop so all my files are accessible on my phone. If I need files from my phone to my laptop I upload it to onedrive.

Sounds like getting an iPad would work well for you as well

 

[JimmyBanks6]

So the plastic webbing under the keyboard doesn't actually work?

 

[Never mind]

Top-of-the-line or close to it ThinkPad X1 extreme would cost you approximately $22-$2400 tax and 3 yr warranty with a 4K monitor and some very good specs than the MacBook Pro (lots of ports) that will cost you about $1000 more and it’s easy to upgrade the RAM the SSD card and the Wi-Fi card. Lenovo has sales all the time

 

[0989382]

If I got rid of the Mac, I'd want to get rid of the iPhone too. Shame as it's just over two weeks old, but without the integration it loses a lot of it's appeal and will only make me crave Apple at every turn
[doublepost=1548717776][/doublepost]I thought of somewhat of a solution...

I'll just take my Mac up to the Apple Store and when they inevitably tell me it'll take 7 days at least to repair, I'll buy a new near £2,000 computer. And then when I collect my own I'll return it 7 days later.

Sure, it'll cost me £30 in fuel and two days off but perhaps Apple will get signals that their customers are seriously struggling to stick to the ecosystem and cannot be ignored forever

 

[SDColorado]

If I got rid of the Mac, I'd want to get rid of the iPhone too. Shame as it's just over two weeks old, but without the integration it loses a lot of it's appeal and will only make me crave Apple at every turn
[doublepost=1548717776][/doublepost]I thought of somewhat of a solution...

I'll just take my Mac up to the Apple Store and when they inevitably tell me it'll take 7 days at least to repair, I'll buy a new near £2,000 computer. And then when I collect my own I'll return it 7 days later.

Sure, it'll cost me £30 in fuel and two days off but perhaps Apple will get signals that their customers are seriously struggling to stick to the ecosystem and cannot be ignored forever

I just fired off a email today to Cook, Schiller and Tara Bunch outlining my issues with the 2018 MBP. I don’t really expect a response and said as much in the email, but it was cathartic to send it and I mentioned that I would like them to know how frustrated some of their long term repeat customers are becoming with repeated issues. Dunno. I am sure it was a waste of time

 

[torana355]

No there is nothing wrong with the 2016-2018 Apple Laptops, they are fine /s

Thank god my 2011 MBA is still running like a champ, to bad Apple won't make a Laptop to replace it that has a proper keyboard.

 

[chabig]

Which ThinkPad?

I have no idea. I'm a Mac person.

 

[SDColorado]

No there is nothing wrong with the 2016-2018 Apple Laptops, they are fine /s

.... as long as you leave them unwrapped and in the box

 

[Blaze4G]

I don't know if Apple will give me a refund, given my track record with the other Mac maybe. Here's my ideas:

- Buy a sleeper crap HP junker of a laptop for about £5/600 with a good i5, SSD etc, with performance to do work

OR

- Buy a Surface GO, and a portable mini ITX tower to take between offices and use the Surface personally.

OR

- Buy a £600-£1000 "gaming" laptop which is good on the performance / bullet proof build

OR

- Buy a Mac mini to take between offices and an iPad for personal use

OR

- Buy an expensive ThinkPad or something with the same money as the Mac cost

OR

- Buy a Surface Pro 6 (very curious about 2-in-1s)



So much choice... The big difference being Windows. I've accepted that no Windows machine at any budget will have all of these: the amazing display colour, the Apple sturdiness, the amazing speakers, macOS, decent trackpad, reasonable battery life, integration with iOS etc...

BUT. In sayings that, I'm nearly finished university and my requirements are changing. I'm now, for the first time in my life, working 9-5 on my Mac and it's beautiful suite of apps. But when I get free time, I don't want to sit for hours on my Mac anymore. Hence why a tablet might be nicer for outside work. My Mac is plugged in all day, so the good battery life doesn't really affect me as much as I think it will. I drive so much that I don't have time or place to use it 'on the go'. Starbucks etc has power outlets.

At work, I noticed neck strain and will need new monitors anyway, meaning the fantastic Retina display is sort of gathering dust. The Apple unibody is beautiful, but it scratches and gets dents and is basically irreplaceable given its cost outside of warranty and glued on components. I use my phone for music and headphones at work for great audio and in the car too. I can't play videos or things out loud in the offices anyway as it disturbs others, so a good pair of B&W headphones replace this.

I've been using Windows 10 more and more at work and I know what to expect now. It's actually quite Apple like these days when fixing printer issues for people. The only annoying thing is it doesn't work with iCloud or iPhone as well (but if the Mac goes, the iPhone goes... that's for a different thread). The decent trackpad will be missed, but then if I'm docking it to a display at work again it won't matter so much. My long term health and ergonomics sort of rule it out anyway.
[doublepost=1548712939][/doublepost]

Which ThinkPad? There's so many in a close price bracket.

I had an E470 which was total junk unfortunately. Apparently, "it wasn't a real ThinkPad" which nobody told me until I bought it D:

Depends on your needs and top priorities. Do you need a full on mobile workstation? Get a P series. Do you need something portable, with a good graphics card? Get the X1 extreme. Do you need something fast and dont do graphic intensive tasks? Get a X1 carbon.

 

[Queen6]

On the Windows side the list is near endless of decent hardware. I use an 17" ROG gamer rerolled as a portable workstation and Switch 5 (Surface clone) X1C, XIE are great notebook's and there's ever more coming ASUS new Studio S is looking very promising. Gave up on Apple as it's computers are hopeless, designed only to look good little else...

Q-6

 

[MHenr]

I haven't had any issues with my 2018 MBP, but reading about the issues daily is just terrible.

I've been a mac user all my life. The 1st computer I consciously used was a Mac and I prefer OSX, iOS and Apple products over a lot of other similar products.

They have been having issues with their hardware the last 4-5 years. Both in supporting their userbase with new machines and the quality of the machines they do release.
There have always been issues, but never as bad or as widespread as the last 4-5 years (maybe the evolution of media has something to do with this).
Apple has always sold expensive computers (though often comparable hardware in comparable form factors from other companies tends to be equally priced) and they've always caught a lot of wind doing so.

But I have to admit they are not making the best choices currently regarding their offering.
iPhone, iPad, watch, have been great. However the computers have not been what I expect Apple to market.

Their product segmentation is still terrible, the updradeability of the new machines is often non-existent and where the focus used to be to be beating the competition on performance in a beautiful package at a high price (justifiably so), it now seems just a beautiful package at a high price with industry standard performance.

My love for apple is no longer based on the computers they offer. It's based on the eco-system, their phones and watches and great software. OSX and iOS remain the best OS's for their platforms as far as I'm concerned.
In the past I would have never considered a Hackintosh, yet now I do.

Anyway, I'm rambling...

I use a Thinkpad T480 for work (it's a very well configured one) and I have to say Lenovo seems to have finally stepped up and continued making laptops as good as IBM made them. Any non-Apple laptop I'd consider would be a Thinkpad.

 

[maflynn]

They have been having issues with their hardware the last 4-5 years

When do you say enough is enough? For me, it was when people were complaining that their 2018 keyboard's were failing. I was at a cross roads, do I wait and hope or just bite the bullet and cut my losses so to speak.

Lenovo seems to have finally stepped up and continued making laptops as good as IBM made them

Yes, I've had Thinkpads back when IBM made them and they were virtually indestructible. I have the same feeling with my X1E, its a great laptop and I've had zero buyers remorse.

Do I miss macOS? A little, but I've largely moved on and while Windows is not perfect, I'm content. I do miss iMessage, Airplay and Airdrop, but there are work arounds.

 

[MHenr]

When do you say enough is enough?

The 1st computer that was truly mine was a brand new Performa 6400 I received as a gift when I was 14. I've never bought a non-Apple computer for personal use, ever. I'll be 37 in a few months.
I can remember my father using Apple computers forever
So I've seen Apple go through their worst and their best over the years.
They've done bad stuff in the past.

When they derailed in the past, it was due to a non-performing OS, market confusion due to their offering, flopped products and relying on high margins.
Nowadays OSX is (in my opinion) still leaps ahead of Windows. Though their product offering is again becoming extremely confusing and they're releasing products that aren't gaining traction or not developing them for a long time (Time Capsule, Siri not seeing much improvement, limitations on Home Pod, etc.).
They've always been relying on high margins, nothing changed there ;-)

Their computer line-up has been a mess for years, but used to be so simple.
"Pro" was pro and "i" was consumer.
Now there's iMacs, iMac Pro's, Mac Pro, MacBook, Mac Mini, MBA's and MBP. All with very similar specs (not groundbreakingly different at least), often just differentiating on form factor.

I remember Jobs' keynote presenting the Power Mac G5.
My jaw dropped to the floor seeing how they designed the internals and how easy it was to add updated hardware or expansions. I drooled seeing one in real life for the 1st time.

I used my 2006 2,33Ghz C2D MBP daily up until last year. Reboots only occurred for updates.
Over the years I upgraded it with a 512GB SSD, maxed out the RAM, changed the optical drive twice, replaced the motherboard after a coffee accident, etc.
I wrote my masters thesis, designed my wedding invitations and edited the pictures of my 2 newborn children on it.
It was indestructible! If something broke, I fixed it.

That's what may make me switch one day.
Their current hardware is not good or reliable enough to warrant such closed models.
Realistically, paying 1900$ or more for a device that may be destroyed to a point that's unrepairable on the day of purchase by a glass of water or a freakin' breadcrumb is borderline insane!

Them doing that with the MBA models seems like a great idea to improve portability, but for the MB's and MBP's? Why?
MBP/MB never stood for super portable, MBP/MB users never asked for a new model that was 0,5mm thinner.
The MBA was great because of that, but now every Apple laptop appears to be designed with the MBA as the blueprint.

This is becoming a long reply, but I don't have an answer.

OSX is worth a lot to me, but not everything.
Their hardware is still better than 90% of what's on the market.
Internals like Intel CPU's, Samsung RAM and SSD's, etc. are mostly generic and not heavily tweaked by or for Apple (except for maybe the SSD). So, I don't know if it's honest to blame them for the quality of those parts.

But design flaws, like the 2017 MBP keyboard, like the Magic Mouse charge port being on the bottom, like the 1st gen i7 MBP shipping with CPU throttling, etc.
Those flaws (and choices!) are becoming inexcusable for the money they charge, yet more apparent.

There currently is not a single windows laptop or desktop I'd prefer over a current Apple laptop/desktop, but there certainly is a hard limit. I'm still hopeful that limit won't be crossed, but if the past says anything about the future, it may happen sooner than later.

 

[ADGrant]

Sorry to hear the butterfly keyboards are still causing issues. I am still using a 2014 15" MBP, guess I will be keeping it for a while. Works great, keyboard has no issues. I have started using it with a monitor, magic trackpad and mechanical keyboard though.

The Mac Mini is an interesting option if you only need to work from a couple of fixed locations. You can use it with a much cheaper monitor and mechanical keyboard. Easy to transport and get repaired.

For non Apple power laptops the choices are Thinkpad Extreme, Dell XPS 15 (good Linux support) or a Razor laptop.

I would not buy any kind of MS Surface product, all the disadvantages of a Mac (cost, repairability, reliability) but doesn't run MacOS.
[doublepost=1548876067][/doublepost]

But design flaws, like the 2017 MBP keyboard, like the Magic Mouse charge port being on the bottom, like the 1st gen i7 MBP shipping with CPU throttling, etc.

FYI All the thin 15" laptops with the higher end Intel CPUs (Razor, Dell XPS etc) thermally throttle. If you want a machine that never thottles, get a full size case with a liquid cooler.

 

[0989382]

Thanks for all the replies. Well it seems ThinkPads are the way to go according to you guys. I really loved the Surface Pro idea but the fact it's a two core / even more 'mobile' processor than my MBP quad core due to it's form factor sort of rules it out. If I had it plugged into two displays at work it'd be using most it's power on that, never mind Affinity Designer!

As for my workflow, at work I manage websites, email marketing, producing flyers, working on presentations / word documents etc to no end. Editing photos to be presentable for company web use. The one I can't find an alternative to though is iMovie, I'll take video and chop it up into a half decent presentable interview etc for work on our website. Nothing too much but the only person who can do it is me with my Mac in our company. And it's so easy! I use Keynote for 'After Effects' style on screen text/ animations. So far exporting stuff as a movie has done me well despite it not being what the programme is for! After Effects is way too expensive for our company and me, and even if I did have it, it'd take ages before being up to speed on it! I am considering Final Cut Pro, but again that's a further entry into the Apple Ecosystem.

This MacBook Pro really is the bees knees, nothing I do can slow it down and it does perform beautifully. My familiarisation with macOS makes my ability to work multiples quicker than my non tech savvy colleagues at work.

If only it weren't for the damn issues :-/

I don't think Apple will give me a refund. The space bar issue / full stop thing is still happening but it's live-able with. I do intend to get it sorted soon but that 70 mile drive to the Apple Store and going without it for a week is putting me off.

For the first time in my life, I really cannot afford to be without this Mac. I need it to do the things I do at work (at least immediately, I have no alternative). For the first time I don't just 'want' a Mac, but I can say I depend on one.

I am curious as to how a £2,000 PC laptop could do the job - since my only experience of Windows PCs is sub-£500 machines. I suppose they're obviously going to come up short against a Mac at £1,200+

Genuinely at a cross roads. Will look up ThinkPads

 

[SDColorado]

Thanks for all the replies. Well it seems ThinkPads are the way to go according to you guys. I really loved the Surface Pro idea but the fact it's a two core / even more 'mobile' processor than my MBP quad core due to it's form factor sort of rules it out. If I had it plugged into two displays at work it'd be using most it's power on that, never mind Affinity Designer!

Just a clarification. Unlike the MacBook Air, which is a dual-core Y processor, The Surface Pro 6 i5-8250U and i7-8650U are both quad-core M processors. But it is a more mobile device than the MBP.

 

[ADGrant]

This MacBook Pro really is the bees knees, nothing I do can slow it down and it does perform beautifully. My familiarisation with macOS makes my ability to work multiples quicker than my non tech savvy colleagues at work.

If only it weren't for the damn issues :-/

I don't think Apple will give me a refund. The space bar issue / full stop thing is still happening but it's live-able with. I do intend to get it sorted soon but that 70 mile drive to the Apple Store and going without it for a week is putting me off.

For the first time in my life, I really cannot afford to be without this Mac. I need it to do the things I do at work (at least immediately, I have no alternative). For the first time I don't just 'want' a Mac, but I can say I depend on one.

I am curious as to how a £2,000 PC laptop could do the job - since my only experience of Windows PCs is sub-£500 machines. I suppose they're obviously going to come up short against a Mac at £1,200+

Genuinely at a cross roads. Will look up ThinkPads

Well Keynote and iMovie are MacOS only of course, on Windows you would need to use PowerPoint (part of MS Office) and Adobe Premiere (part of the Adobe Cloud suite). The Adobe apps are now subscription based which can get expensive quickly. MS Office is still available as a purchase but it is not particularly cheap either.

Another option would be a Mac Mini. If you only need the computer at work and at another fixed location like a home office, it is very portable. You would need to keep a keyboard screen and mouse at both locations though.

 

[0989382]

Just a clarification. Unlike the MacBook Air, which is a dual-core Y processor, The Surface Pro 6 i5-8250U and i7-8650U are both quad-core M processors. But it is a more mobile device than the MBP.

The M processors are better than U aren't they? if a little less efficient. My TB MBP is the most powerhouse like laptop I've ever owned and I noticed it performing much better on processing jobs and under heavy load (like Parallels, exporting etc all at once) than my 2017 base model. I'm worried if I go to Surface Pro it'll be a step back?
[doublepost=1550238266][/doublepost]

Well Keynote and iMovie are MacOS only of course, on Windows you would need to use PowerPoint (part of MS Office) and Adobe Premiere (part of the Adobe Cloud suite). The Adobe apps are now subscription based which can get expensive quickly. MS Office is still available as a purchase but it is not particularly cheap either.

Another option would be a Mac Mini. If you only need the computer at work and at another fixed location like a home office, it is very portable. You would need to keep a keyboard screen and mouse at both locations though.

I like Office, but Adobe is a no. The subscription thing isn't trapping me, I believe in the whole vote with your wallet thing. That suits my company but not me personally, too much. Affinity Photo and Designer, thankfully, get this! Is there any other iMovie alternative / Final Cut alternative? (I use Keynote's Export as movie and animations to make stingers)

 

[ADGrant]

The M processors are better than U aren't they? if a little less efficient. My TB MBP is the most powerhouse like laptop I've ever owned and I noticed it performing much better on processing jobs and under heavy load (like Parallels, exporting etc all at once) than my 2017 base model. I'm worried if I go to Surface Pro it'll be a step back?
[doublepost=1550238266][/doublepost]

I like Office, but Adobe is a no. The subscription thing isn't trapping me, I believe in the whole vote with your wallet thing. That suits my company but not me personally, too much. Affinity Photo and Designer, thankfully, get this! Is there any other iMovie alternative / Final Cut alternative? (I use Keynote's Export as movie and animations to make stingers)

The 2018 MacBooks do seem to be faster than the Surface Pro 6 based on the benchmarks I have seen. Intel's CPU naming is very confusing and performance is dependent on other things too such as thermals and SSD throughput. You should probably rely on benchmarks.

If you don't want to use Adobe software, you can look at Davinci Resolve (works on Mac and PC). I think you might want to stick with Mac though, seems to have a lot more Adobe alternatives. OTOH Adobe software seems to run better on Windows these days (at least Premiere does).

 

[SDColorado]

The M processors are better than U aren't they? if a little less efficient. My TB MBP is the most powerhouse like laptop I've ever owned and I noticed it performing much better on processing jobs and under heavy load (like Parallels, exporting etc all at once) than my 2017 base model. I'm worried if I go to Surface Pro it'll be a step back?

Looking at what I said in what you quoted, I realize I misspoke and for some reason said M. The Surface Pro CPU options are i5-8250U and i7-8650U, which are 4-core/8-thread 15W TPD.

The M designation has become a bit confusing I think. I believe Intel stopped using the M designation after Broadwell, but now markets "Y" CPU's as Core M. Core M is inferior to U in terms of performance, but offers better battery life, within the same generation.

The MacBook Pros use "H" processors with the 2018's using the 2.2 8750H, 2.6 8850H and the 2.9 8950HK in the 15" models and I believe the 2.3 Core i5 8259-U in the 13"?

The MacBook Air uses a Core i5-8210Y, 2-core/4-thread 7W TPD processor.

Which size base model 2017 MBP do you currently have? I believe 13" was an i5 7360U and 15" was i7 7820HQ?

 

[0989382]

Looking at what I said in what you quoted, I realize I misspoke and for some reason said M. The Surface Pro CPU options are i5-8250U and i7-8650U, which are 4-core/8-thread 15W TPD.

The M designation has become a bit confusing I think. I believe Intel stopped using the M designation after Broadwell, but now markets "Y" CPU's as Core M. Core M is inferior to U in terms of performance, but offers better battery life, within the same generation.

The MacBook Pros use "H" processors with the 2018's using the 2.2 8750H, 2.6 8850H and the 2.9 8950HK in the 15" models and I believe the 2.3 Core i5 8259-U in the 13"?

The MacBook Air uses a Core i5-8210Y, 2-core/4-thread 7W TPD processor.

Which size base model 2017 MBP do you currently have? I believe 13" was an i5 7360U and 15" was i7 7820HQ?

Sorry, I currently have a 2018 TB MBP the 512GB one. Before this, I had a 2017 nTB base model