MacBook Pro or 4K iMac for programming?

[zigzagzug]

Hi my friends. I will buy a computer soon. But i was undecided.

First choice;

Brand new MacBook Pro 13” 2.9 GHz Dual Core i5 256 GB SSD with touchBar (2016)

or

2nd choice;

Brand new iMac 4K 21.5” quad core 3.4 GHz 1 TB Fusion Drive with trackpad and beats solo 3 (solo 3 gift)

I am computer programming student. No need to take the computer to the school. University have a computer lab.

Thanks!

 

[NorCalLights]

As long as you don't plan on taking your computer to a coffee shop or anything, the iMac is definitely a better computer. And it'll be much more ergonomic to work at.

 

[PlayUltimate]

If you can afford it, consider the low end 27” iMac. Primarily because RAM is user upgradable. Don’t have access on the 21”.

 

[zigzagzug]

If you can afford it, consider the low end 27” iMac. Primarily because RAM is user upgradable. Don’t have access on the 21”.

Yeah. 27 "is better. but more expensive .. the only problem is this. What do you think about "21"?
[doublepost=1535313093][/doublepost]

As long as you don't plan on taking your computer to a coffee shop or anything, the iMac is definitely a better computer. And it'll be much more ergonomic to work at.

I guess I do not use it in the coffee shop. I did not need it until today. I started to think that iMac would be a better choice.

 

[MRrainer]

The 21" has a smaller screen and the RAM is non-upgradeable.

Save money until you can afford the 27". It will be worth it.
Apple will soon-ish update the iMacs (well, October, hopefully) and you might be able to get a good deal at clearance sale of the old inventory then.

The RAM in 21" iMacs can't be upgraded. That alone is worth saving for the 27" model IMO. Unless you plan on using it only one or two years and then buying another one.

And of course: consider going SSD only, instead of Fusion Drive.

You can probably get by the first few weeks without a machine, just using the lab-computers.
I assume you have phone that you can use to check mails?

 

[zigzagzug]

The 21" has a smaller screen and the RAM is non-upgradeable.

Save money until you can afford the 27". It will be worth it.
Apple will soon-ish update the iMacs (well, October, hopefully) and you might be able to get a good deal at clearance sale of the old inventory then.

The RAM in 21" iMacs can't be upgraded. That alone is worth saving for the 27" model IMO. Unless you plan on using it only one or two years and then buying another one.

And of course: consider going SSD only, instead of Fusion Drive.

You can probably get by the first few weeks without a machine, just using the lab-computers.
I assume you have phone that you can use to check mails?

yes I own the iPhone X. as you said it might make sense to wait a bit. But I hope the prices will not increase further.

 

[PlayUltimate]

Personally, I would either a) 27” iMac or b) portable with external monitor. Except for the low cost, I think the 21” iMac is too much of a compromise solution.

 

[MRrainer]

yes I own the iPhone X. as you said it might make sense to wait a bit. But I hope the prices will not increase further.

Most likely, the prices for the base unit will not increase. They didn't increase for the MBP. What did increase was the price for the top-end BTO model because of 32GB RAM and 4 TB SSD.
It will be interesting to see how the next iMac is positioned against the current iMac Pro.

So, if you can wait, that is always good. Because what you don't buy can't deprecate ;-)
Also, if you don't have a computer in you place, you're more likely to concentrate on studying...

 

[theluggage]

Yeah. 27 "is better. but more expensive .. the only problem is this. What do you think about "21"?

The big problem is the lack of upgradeable RAM: 8GB will probably be enough for general use and learning programming - people tend to overestimate how much RAM you need on a Mac - but its not very future-proof if you later find yourself doing something that needs more RAM (like running multiple virtual machines, which can be useful when programming - e.g. if you need to target Windows, Linux or Android).

This will also be an issue for the MBP - but if you get the 27" iMac you can start with 8GB (which will certainly be enough to get started) and save up for more RAM if and when you need it (last time I looked you could add 16GB to get 24GB for the price of Apple's upgrade to 16GB).

Personally, I'd avoid the 1TB Fusion drive (which only has a small 32GB SSD portion) and go for the 256GB SSD - plus an external HD to store any bulky media files you have. That's only an extra $100 on the 4k iMac. (On the 27" I'd still avoid the 1TB but you can get 2/3TB fusion drives have bigger 128GB SSD caches).

The other thing about the 27", though, is that lots of screen area is great for programming...

Obviously, if the money won't stretch then that's that (maybe consider a refurb/used 27"... even a 2015 model?) - I'm sure the 4k would be OK (but I'd still go for SSD).

Most likely, the prices for the base unit will not increase. They didn't increase for the MBP.

Well, it depends if its just a spec bump or a re-design... this year's MBPs were the former - the prices did go up with the major design change in 2016.

Also, its high time they ditched the spinning rust options from the iMacs (which could push up prices) and dropping the upgradeable RAM from the 27" would force many people to pay extra for Apple's RAM options for the sake of "future proofing".

 

[ipponrg]

Hi my friends. I will buy a computer soon. But i was undecided.

First choice;

Brand new MacBook Pro 13” 2.9 GHz Dual Core i5 256 GB SSD with touchBar (2016)

or

2nd choice;

Brand new iMac 4K 21.5” quad core 3.4 GHz 1 TB Fusion Drive with trackpad and beats solo 3 (solo 3 gift)

I am computer programming student. No need to take the computer to the school. University have a computer lab.

Thanks!

Even though your university has a computer lab, having a MBP will give you a lot of flexibility. You could do work from practically anywhere. The 15" is no slouch either. It's plenty for most university level programming exercises. I had a desktop in school, and it made programming very inconvenient at times if I had to work from home or the computer lab.

Just my opinion

 

[Premal212]

Even though your university has a computer lab, having a MBP will give you a lot of flexibility. You could do work from practically anywhere. The 15" is no slouch either. It's plenty for most university level programming exercises. I had a desktop in school, and it made programming very inconvenient at times if I had to work from home or the computer lab.

Just my opinion

I second this, I'm finishing up my part time masters, and yes having desktop performance would be incredible, something I'm thinking of in the future. But right now, the portability is just required.

Being able to work on my machine anywhere, all my files there, if I'm heading home, I got my machine, my friends place for the night, machine is with me, head to gfs, I have my machine.

If you think you're just going to work / use your machine at home then go for the desktop, but for someone who I assume will be on the move a lot, I suggest MBP.

 

[zigzagzug]

The big problem is the lack of upgradeable RAM: 8GB will probably be enough for general use and learning programming - people tend to overestimate how much RAM you need on a Mac - but its not very future-proof if you later find yourself doing something that needs more RAM (like running multiple virtual machines, which can be useful when programming - e.g. if you need to target Windows, Linux or Android).

This will also be an issue for the MBP - but if you get the 27" iMac you can start with 8GB (which will certainly be enough to get started) and save up for more RAM if and when you need it (last time I looked you could add 16GB to get 24GB for the price of Apple's upgrade to 16GB).

Personally, I'd avoid the 1TB Fusion drive (which only has a small 32GB SSD portion) and go for the 256GB SSD - plus an external HD to store any bulky media files you have. That's only an extra $100 on the 4k iMac. (On the 27" I'd still avoid the 1TB but you can get 2/3TB fusion drives have bigger 128GB SSD caches).

The other thing about the 27", though, is that lots of screen area is great for programming...

Obviously, if the money won't stretch then that's that (maybe consider a refurb/used 27"... even a 2015 model?) - I'm sure the 4k would be OK (but I'd still go for SSD).



Well, it depends if its just a spec bump or a re-design... this year's MBPs were the former - the prices did go up with the major design change in 2016.

Also, its high time they ditched the spinning rust options from the iMacs (which could push up prices) and dropping the upgradeable RAM from the 27" would force many people to pay extra for Apple's RAM options for the sake of "future proofing".

Yes it is impossible to upgrade mbp ram. And this is a big problem for the future. The 27 "iMac is beautiful and enough in every sense. But very expensive with taxes in Turkey. Tax rate in Turkey is almost 100%.

It is still worth it, it might make sense to wait a little longer and get 27 ". Thank you for your answer.
[doublepost=1535359426][/doublepost]

Even though your university has a computer lab, having a MBP will give you a lot of flexibility. You could do work from practically anywhere. The 15" is no slouch either. It's plenty for most university level programming exercises. I had a desktop in school, and it made programming very inconvenient at times if I had to work from home or the computer lab.

Just my opinion

True, but the mbp base model seems to be inadequate in the future. And this could be a big problem. RAM is impossible to upgrade and this is a big issue.

 

[maflynn]

am computer programming student. No need to take the computer to the school. University have a computer lab.

If you have no mobility needs, the iMac is a better computer, but I strongly recommend upgrading the 1TB Fusion drive to an SSD.

I do think for students, (regardless of computer labs), a laptop is a better choice.

 

[ipponrg]

Yes it is impossible to upgrade mbp ram. And this is a big problem for the future. The 27 "iMac is beautiful and enough in every sense. But very expensive with taxes in Turkey. Tax rate in Turkey is almost 100%.

It is still worth it, it might make sense to wait a little longer and get 27 ". Thank you for your answer.
[doublepost=1535359426][/doublepost]

True, but the mbp base model seems to be inadequate in the future. And this could be a big problem. RAM is impossible to upgrade and this is a big issue.

I think that is subjective. I have a work-given 2015 MBP and a 2016 MBP, and I do work in software engineering. In most cases unless you’re working in multiple parallel environments, you aren’t going to be using the RAM entirely. Coding in JavaScript/Go/C++ on enterprise apps and services, I haven’t had an issue with the RAM limitation.

The only bottleneck for me was that one time I wanted to run multiple VMs. Other than that, it’s been fine

 

[zigzagzug]

I think that is subjective. I have a work-given 2015 MBP and a 2016 MBP, and I do work in software engineering. In most cases unless you’re working in multiple parallel environments, you aren’t going to be using the RAM entirely. Coding in JavaScript/Go/C++ on enterprise apps and services, I haven’t had an issue with the RAM limitation.

The only bottleneck for me was that one time I wanted to run multiple VMs. Other than that, it’s been fine

True, the 4 GB ram did not have any problems while using the MacBook Pro 2012. The 8 GB daily software does not bother you, but I do not know if it will be a problem in two years. Thanks for your comment!
[doublepost=1535391265][/doublepost]

If you have no mobility needs, the iMac is a better computer, but I strongly recommend upgrading the 1TB Fusion drive to an SSD.

I do think for students, (regardless of computer labs), a laptop is a better choice.

The SSD is excellent. But Turkey in this expensive about $ 200. :/

 

[ignatius345]

If you have no mobility needs, the iMac is a better computer, but I strongly recommend upgrading the 1TB Fusion drive to an SSD.

Or at the very least get the 2TB or larger Fusion drive, which has a 128GB SSD built-in.

I find the (larger) Fusion Drive to be very speedy generally. The system and actively used files are kept on the SSD, and less-used files are shuffled over to the HDD -- all seamlessly and without any user intervention.

 

[zigzagzug]

Or at the very least get the 2TB or larger Fusion drive, which has a 128GB SSD built-in.

I find the (larger) Fusion Drive quite speedy generally. The system and actively used files are kept on the SSD, and less-used files are shuffled over to the HDD -- all quite seamlessly.

Thank you. I'll think about it! A 2 TB Fusion Drive can be added if you find a deal. Well, is it possible to change the HDD to SSD later on the iMac?

 

[theluggage]

I think that is subjective. I have a work-given 2015 MBP and a 2016 MBP, and I do work in software engineering. In most cases unless you’re working in multiple parallel environments, you aren’t going to be using the RAM entirely. Coding in JavaScript/Go/C++ on enterprise apps and services, I haven’t had an issue with the RAM limitation.

The only bottleneck for me was that one time I wanted to run multiple VMs. Other than that, it’s been fine

In a sense that's the problem with non-upgradeable RAM: 8GB is probably going to be enough for most people, even for software development, until you hit something that does need more RAM (e.g. your example of multiple VMs - which can be incredibly useful in multi-platform software development) - so you end up having to shell out for 16GB just in case.

 

[PlayUltimate]

Thank you. I'll think about it! A 2 TB Fusion Drive can be added if you find a deal. Well, is it possible to change the HDD to SSD later on the iMac?

not easily.

A year ago I was weighing the same decision. I was seriously looking, due to price, at the 21" but was not sure if 8GB RAM would be sufficient. When I priced in the cost for the extra RAM, that had to be bought at time of purchase vs the option to get cheaper RAM at my leisure and taking into consideration the bigger and better screen, the 27" made more sense for me. I also considered getting a laptop with an external display; like you I decided against it.

In addition, I was agonizing about getting an SSD over the fusion. Everyone I talked to, and researched, strongly suggested NOT getting the 1TB fusion due to the small SSD size. The 2TB Fusion is better due to the 128SSD, but it also costs $200 more. I decided to pay the extra $100 for the 256SSD and buy some external drives for additional storage (my iTunes library and Photos are on external drives). So far I have been quite happy with the 27" iMac.

 

[ignatius345]

Thank you. I'll think about it! A 2 TB Fusion Drive can be added if you find a deal. Well, is it possible to change the HDD to SSD later on the iMac?

No, not at all. The iMac is basically sealed. The 27" version has a door for upgrading the RAM easily, but everything else is locked behind layers of glass, metal and glue.
[doublepost=1535409589][/doublepost]

I decided to pay the extra $100 for the 256SSD and buy some external drives for additional storage (my iTunes library and Photos are on external drives).

Yeah, with desktops it's pretty painless to just add more storage. The one truly "wrong" configuration for the iMac is the one with the mechanical hard drive only. I honestly can't believe they still offer it.
[doublepost=1535409644][/doublepost]

In a sense that's the problem with non-upgradeable RAM: 8GB is probably going to be enough for most people, even for software development, until you hit something that does need more RAM (e.g. your example of multiple VMs - which can be incredibly useful in multi-platform software development) - so you end up having to shell out for 16GB just in case.

I went with 24GB and have not been unhappy with that choice. After market RAM prices are also much better than Apple's

 

[gnasher729]

And of course: consider going SSD only, instead of Fusion Drive.

Explain why. There is price, storage, and speed. Fusion drive wins two out of three.

 

[theluggage]

Explain why. There is price, storage, and speed. Fusion drive wins two out of three.

Because its a lot more complicated than that: more + cheaper doesn't always mean better.

- the 1TB Fusion drive only has a relatively small 32GB SSD portion which may not be enough to cache all of your frequently used files. The upgrade to 2TB Fusion (with a more sensible 128GB SSD) isn't available on the 21" iMacs.

- Where both options are available (on the 27") the 2TB fusion upgrade $200 c.f. $100 for the 256GB SSD upgrade. The difference leaves you just about enough change for an external 2TB HD for your bulky files.

- With even a 256GB SSD, all of your OS, applications and temporary files will fit on the super-fast SSD and probably leave enough space for most of your documents etc. provided you make a modest effort to archive & keep bulky stuff (like video and photo libraries) on your external HD. Thread starter was talking about programming: unless video is involved, that doesn't take huge swathes of disc space (keep the working code on the SSD and periodically sync it to a git, or equivalent, repository on an external/NAS/Cloud drive).

- In a Fusion drive if either the mechanical hard drive or the SSD component go wrong, you have a dead drive and your iMac is off to hospital for a week and risk losing your data. A pure SSD has no moving parts, less to go wrong and pumps out less heat and no vibration - a much better prospect for a super-slim (and cramped) machine like an iMac.

- If you do anything remotely serious you're gonna need external drives for backup and archive anyway. - especially when you have a sealed machine where you can't pop the hard drive out if it goes off for repair. Unless you're doing something like 4K+ video editing, the big advantage of a SSD comes from having the myriad files for OS, application, temporary, virtual memory etc. - that are being continually accessed while you work - on SSD. Loading individual data files off external drives isn't such a bottleneck (and you can always go for fast external SSDs as and when you can afford them).

 

[ignatius345]

the 1TB Fusion drive only has a relatively small 32GB SSD portion which may not be enough to cache all of your frequently used files. The upgrade to 2TB Fusion (with a more sensible 128GB SSD) isn't available on the 21" iMacs.

It is really a shame Apple skimps on the SSD part of the 1TB Fusion Drives, which is why everyone considering one should go with the 2TB, in my opinion. That gets you a full 128 GB SSD, which for many uses is enough for your system and whatever you're actively working on.

- With even a 256GB SSD, all of your OS, applications and temporary files will fit on the super-fast SSD and probably leave enough space for most of your documents etc. provided you make a modest effort to archive & keep bulky stuff (like video and photo libraries) on your external HD. Thread starter was talking about programming: unless video is involved, that doesn't take huge swathes of disc space (keep the working code on the SSD and periodically sync it to a git, or equivalent, repository on an external/NAS/Cloud drive).

I myself just prefer to be able to use and back up that entire 2TB in one package as a Fusion Drive. The OS migrates system stuff and frequently-used files to the SSD anyway, and in real-world use it's very fast. If you'd rather not manually shuffle files around, a Fusion Drive is a great option that's much faster than an HDD and much more cost-efficient at a given size than an SSD.

- In a Fusion drive if either the mechanical hard drive or the SSD component go wrong, you have a dead drive and your iMac is off to hospital for a week and risk losing your data. A pure SSD has no moving parts, less to go wrong and pumps out less heat and no vibration - a much better prospect for a super-slim (and cramped) machine like an iMac.

For all the hand-wringing about this, how often does it really happen? I have two Macs with Fusion Drives -- one of them running for 4 years now and the other for 2 years -- and they're both doing just fine. And I'm not seeing tons of threads around here about Fusion Drive failure, either. In any case, as you point out, you always want to be backing up, regardless of what drive you're using.

To your larger point, yes, of course a pure SSD is better -- but when a Fusion Drive can give you a very significant percentage of the real-world performance of an SSD along with the cost-effectiveness and utility of a large HDD, it's worth considering for a lot of uses.

 

[jagooch]

Get the 1TB SSD and the an external Samsung T5 SSD if you need more storage. I had an iMac 27" 2015 with a 1TB Fusion drive and it drove me nuts, it was so SLOW!.

I got rid of it because of the slow fusion drive and my next iMac ( using mbp now ) will have an SSD.

I probably should have kept the 2015 iMac and bought an external SSD, but wasn't thinking clearly back then. I'm happy with the 2015 Macbook Pro w/16GB RAM except for transcoding and running Parallels VM's maxes out the CPU.

 

[MRrainer]

Thread is one year old. OP never got back here. Probably bought an XPS in the end, lemoned it subsequently and now has a Lenovo 2-in-1 thingy and an iPad Mini ;-)