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PinkyMacGodess

Suspended
Original poster
Mar 7, 2007
10,271
6,228
Midwest America.
Specifically I'm hoping to be able to spread my Mail rules across multiple systems so they all have the same rules.

Where does macOS squirrel away those rules?


Thanks...
 
/Users/YourUserName/Library/Mail/V8

There are two particular files in that folder (SyncedRules.plist and UnsyncedRules.plist) that contain your rules, but I would just copy the entire "Mail" folder over to be safe.
 
/Users/YourUserName/Library/Mail/V8

There are two particular files in that folder (SyncedRules.plist and UnsyncedRules.plist) that contain your rules, but I would just copy the entire "Mail" folder over to be safe.

So they are all in one gigantic XML file. Interesting. It makes things harder to consolidate the rules so that every system has the same rules.

I was wondering if I could deadlock macOS Mail by having one system put a test message into a folder, and another system have a rule that moves it back to the Inbox. Would they fight to the death to get the file in their ideal 'right place'? Although the rules in macOS Mail seem to be so haphazard, they seem to work when they want to, and don't constantly run, even for emails received that are covered by a rule on THAT system. (I've seen it happen! GRRR!)

It's really stupid, IMO, to have no centralized Mail rule repository for someone's iCloud account, and that the rules for iCloud are way more primitive than they are for macOS Mail. It's like macOS Mail is just a half hearted attempt at writting a mail client app. Eudora seemed so much better, not that it didn't have its own issues, but GOOD GRIEF!

It's just bizarre. I'm not a fan. Not at all...
 
Oh, for anyone else, you just apparently need those two files apparently...

There seem to be some other files concerning rules, but also some showing emails and such. Copying all of that to a new system, to me, looks like it could stroke Mail the wrong way, and it's cranky enough. Don't invite the wrath of macOS Mail!

I'm already wondering if concatenating the many rules files by copying and pasting isn't a bridge too far.
 
I'm with you about not inviting MacMail's wrath . . . I wrestle with it, it usually wins.

But . . . in the past I had success using Chronosync to synch up Mail's folders between my iMac and my MBP. I probably had an easier situation that you do, because I only bothered doing it when when I was going to travel. I rarely used Mail on the MBP when not traveling.

But it did work. As I remember, I used the option of making the two match (synching by going back and forth) rather than just copying from the iMac.

I also remember that occasionally the whole process crashed and burned, although it wasn't Chronosync's fault.
 
I'm with you about not inviting MacMail's wrath . . . I wrestle with it, it usually wins.

But . . . in the past I had success using Chronosync to synch up Mail's folders between my iMac and my MBP. I probably had an easier situation that you do, because I only bothered doing it when when I was going to travel. I rarely used Mail on the MBP when not traveling.

But it did work. As I remember, I used the option of making the two match (synching by going back and forth) rather than just copying from the iMac.

I also remember that occasionally the whole process crashed and burned, although it wasn't Chronosync's fault.

And, I have a 'history' with some of Apple's apps. I crashed iTunes some six years ago now so hard, it deleted corrupted the database, and deleted tracks, and I had to, under the direction of a 'second level engineer' at Apple, reloaded all of my physical CDs. iTunes crashed on me several times, but that was the worst. Heck, once iTunes would not import a CD, no matter what I did. Couldn't figure that one out at all...

I poke macOS mail as little as possible. Seeing the rules are in a single XML file, and finding another XML file with a list of the rules is a little ominous. I can see the reason for them being in a single file, but having the separate list of rules makes me wonder what other surprises there could be if I try to 'fix' the Apple Mail hot mess. Like, is that list automagically maintained? If I add a new rule 'behind the curtain', will it invoke the wrath, or will Mail just add it to the list, or flush it from the file, or just ignore it. It seems embarrassing, and somewhat distressing, to have to wonder about such questions, and fear the wrath of that app. So fragile is the system we depend on for our contact to the 'real world'.

I only have three systems that I usually have on and collect email, but the thought of having to pull each of those files up on one system and edit them to add the missing rules, and annotate them in the list, and gross my fingers, toes, and eyes as the systems come up is something that I don't know I can survive. If Mail goes all wrath, I may just quit.

I do remember editing an XML file that likely caused the massive iTunes crash. I was amazed that it appeared that iTunes *knew* I tried to move the cheese manually... How did it know? The Apple 'engineer' didn't know. Just freaky...

I could go from system to system and create the rules on each one, but some systems have 25 to 30 rules. (I found out that when Mail had a small number of massive rules, it took much longer than having multiple smaller rules, which was surprising too, and more odd since all the rules are essentially in the same XML file. It takes them that much to scan the entries in the key blocks, than scan multiple key blocks) Odd... Strange even...

AND Mail rules sometimes flip to the previously entered actions and folder names, just at random. Maddening...

Yeah you don't tug on superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off the old lone ranger
And you don't mess around with Apple XML files?
 
Not sure what you're trying to do with your rules, but I'd suggest server-side filtering, which takes place before Mail even gets involved. If it's iCloud Mail you're talking about, you can set them on the icloud.com site. And of course Gmail has some very powerful rules you can set up as well. Again, all this takes place regardless of which Mac is doing what or even if none of your Macs are on. And the beauty of IMAP is that all the folders get synced to all your devices.

The only local rules I have set up are a ton of manually-triggered ones I made for cleaning out old copies of newsletters and receipts and whatnot occasionally. The main issue I keep running into with Mail is that every time I go into Rules, I find they've all unchecked themselves somehow. Fortunatly, option-click on one checkbox checks them all again (learned that the hard way).
 
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Not sure what you're trying to do with your rules, but I'd suggest server-side filtering, which takes place before Mail even gets involved. If it's iCloud Mail you're talking about, you can set them on the icloud.com site. And of course Gmail has some very powerful rules you can set up as well. Again, all this takes place regardless of which Mac is doing what or even if none of your Macs are on. And the beauty of IMAP is that all the folders get synced to all your devices.

The only local rules I have set up are a ton of manually-triggered ones I made for cleaning out old copies of newsletters and receipts and whatnot occasionally. The main issue I keep running into with Mail is that every time I go into Rules, I find they've all unchecked themselves somehow. Fortunatly, option-click on one checkbox checks them all again (learned that the hard way).

I looked into iCloud server-side rules, and they are really primitive, compared to macOS Mail. It's just that if the system with that rule isn't on, the rule doesn't run.
 
I looked into iCloud server-side rules, and they are really primitive, compared to macOS Mail.
True. I only use mine to file certain incoming messages in certain folders and for that it works well. But, yeah, it doesn't have the options Mail does.
 
It's a pity that there isn't a conversion method from Mac rules to iCloud rules. My extensive Mac mail rules go back 20 years, I loathe the idea of having to recreate them all on iCloud just to get them to work on my iOS devices…
 
Hi All,

I have recently just bought an M1 MacMini and wanted to migrate from my old 2004 MacMini (think it was running Snow Leopard!).
I've moved all my stuff over but Mail is a problem. In particular mail rules, I have seen various instructions on what to do.
As this version is so old it has the rules in a file called MessageRules.plist it would seem that the newer versions use files called SyncedRules.plist and UnsyncedRules.plist I have tried copying over the MessageRules file and renamed it to SyncedRules but this hasn't worked.
Has anyone got any other suggestions? I'm at a bit of a loss now...

Thanks
 
Hi All,

I have recently just bought an M1 MacMini and wanted to migrate from my old 2004 MacMini (think it was running Snow Leopard!).
I've moved all my stuff over but Mail is a problem. In particular mail rules, I have seen various instructions on what to do.
As this version is so old it has the rules in a file called MessageRules.plist it would seem that the newer versions use files called SyncedRules.plist and UnsyncedRules.plist I have tried copying over the MessageRules file and renamed it to SyncedRules but this hasn't worked.
Has anyone got any other suggestions? I'm at a bit of a loss now...

Thanks
Whoa, you just jumped forward nearly two decades.

I wonder if you could pop both of these .plist files open in BBEdit or something and try to reformat the old one the way the new one is formatted?
 
Whoa, you just jumped forward nearly two decades.

I wonder if you could pop both of these .plist files open in BBEdit or something and try to reformat the old one the way the new one is formatted?

Unless the file has to be 'kissed' by the app, and then it'll just either ignire it, delete it, or go barking mad because of it. Do you feel lucky?

I had tons of spam filters, and most of the domains they were spoofing haven't been used in ages so losing the behemoth spam filters hasn't been much of an issue. Depending on the number of rules, you could open the old file in like BBEdit, and then recreate them in the new Mail. I wish macOS Mail handled rules/filters better. My new hypothesis is that they have to be one domain per rule, which means I'll have thousands of rules, but most aren't being used. I WISH there were stats that we could see to show what rules are being used. But alas, macOS Mail is just a stinking hot mess.
 
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Whoa, you just jumped forward nearly two decades.

I wonder if you could pop both of these .plist files open in BBEdit or something and try to reformat the old one the way the new one is formatted?
Yes, it's quite a leap I know. Even managed to skip Intel CPU's along the way!
So, I have opened my old rules list and the newer SyncedRules.plist file in Notepad++. The old one is 8000 lines of XML and the new one is 68. Now of course the new one has only the default rule in it but still. This is going to take quite some time in wading through all this.
Thanks
 
  • Like
Reactions: ignatius345
Yes, it's quite a leap I know. Even managed to skip Intel CPU's along the way!
So, I have opened my old rules list and the newer SyncedRules.plist file in Notepad++. The old one is 8000 lines of XML and the new one is 68. Now of course the new one has only the default rule in it but still. This is going to take quite some time in wading through all this.
Thanks
Be sure to check @PinkyMacGodess's post below mine before you sink too much time into it!
 
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