MP 6,1 MacPro Late 2013 as upgrade to MacMini i7 Late 2012

[victor.espina]

I am a web/desktop senior programmer. I spent half of my time programming with Ionic or Angular, and the other half I spent it using SQL Server, .NET and VFP over a virtualized Windows Server 2019. I am also an amateur musician, so I use Logic Pro quite a bit. For this I've been using a MacMini i7 Late 2012 that I upgraded to 16 gb RAM and 1 TB ssd.

With the new Apple's move to Mx chips, I am facing two options:

a) Buy the best Intel desktop Mac I can buy with 1.500 usd or less.
b) Buy a new MacMini M1 and a cheap PC box with i5 and 8 gb RAM.

For option a) I am considering a refurbished MacPro late 2013 with a 6 cores Xeon E5 v2 CPU, upgraded to a 32 GB of RAM and a 1 TB NVMe SSD drive, for a total budget of around 1.300 USD.

What do you think? If it worth it? Or should I jump into the M1 wagon and just by a cheap PC box for my Windows needs? Should I buy a MacMini M1 now or wait until the upcoming M2 is released ?

I've to admit that I've been more than happy with the MacMini form factor for the last 6 years, but this MacPro 2013 is just SO AWESOME (aesthetically speaking)....

 

[krakman]

wait for the M2, or whatever they are to be called, computers to be released.

the Mac Pro 2013, whilst viable, is reaching the end of its supportable lifespan.

 

[complaxneoda]

I do not think buying a 8 years old machine is a good choice.
1. it has almost no ability to upgrade to fit future needs.
2. Its single core performance is poor even use the 8 core version cpu.
3. Its Gpu is old and has no modern techniques. For example, Mac Pro 6,1 has no GPu acceleration.
4. Thunderbolt 2 does not have power supply function, some nowadays gadgets do not work well on it unles you buy some expensive and slow accessories. For example, you can not directly connect mobile thunderbolt 3 hard drives to thunderbolt 2 port.
5. It is easy to be overheat even just fully load cpu.

 

[victor.espina]

wait for the M2, or whatever they are to be called, computers to be released.

the Mac Pro 2013, whilst viable, is reaching the end of its supportable lifespan.

That really doesn't bother me because that model still support Big Sur, that is the last MacOS version that would be available for Intel-based Macs. I am not a professional photographer or music producer that requires to be able to run the latest versions of Mac apps (that would eventually force you to be updated to the latest MacOS version); I can perfectly use Big Sur for the next 5 or 6 years without problems.... the only problem could come if MS release a new version of Windows that is not compatible with my Intel hardware, but that is highly unlikely and, further more, the customer's adaptation rate to the latest Windows versions is always really slow.

 

[victor.espina]

I do not think buying a 8 years old machine is a good choice.
1. it has almost no ability to upgrade to fit future needs.
2. Its single core performance is poor even use the 8 core version cpu.
3. Its Gpu is old and has no modern techniques. For example, Mac Pro 6,1 has no GPu acceleration.
4. Thunderbolt 2 does not have power supply function, some nowadays gadgets do not work well on it unles you buy some expensive and slow accessories. For example, you can not directly connect mobile thunderbolt 3 hard drives to thunderbolt 2 port.
5. It is easy to be overheat even just fully load cpu.

Good points. Thanks.

So, basically my only real option would be to jump to the M1 wagon (or whatever comes next) and buy a cheap mini desktop PC for my Windows needs?

 

[complaxneoda]

Good points. Thanks.

So, basically my only real option would be to jump to the M1 wagon (or whatever comes next) and buy a cheap mini desktop PC for my Windows needs?

To be honest, I do not know. My computers are old machines. And I do not live in the USA, so I have no idea about which choice is the best at this price.

In my opinion, desktop is easy to upgrade storage, so buy a cheapest new 27 intel iMac may be a good choice. With some cheap accessories, you can use your old Mac’s ssd, and you can easily upgrade the ram in the future.

 

[victor.espina]

To be honest, I do not know. My computers are old machines. And I do not live in the USA, so I have no idea about which choice is the best at this price.

In my opinion, desktop is easy to upgrade storage, so buy a cheapest new 27 intel iMac may be a good choice. With some cheap accessories, you can use your old Mac’s ssd, and you can easily upgrade the ram in the future.

I don't live in the US neither, and iMacs are too expensive and don't have the mobility the MacMini or even the MacPro 2013 have. What you said is true; I am ACTUALLY working with a computer with hardware even OLDER than the MacPro and, so far, hadn't any issues with the accessories I've purchased....of course, those are simple and basic accessories, nothing fancy or cutting edge... so maybe this point is not that bad as it may seems at first time.

 

[chrfr]

Big Sur, that is the last MacOS version that would be available for Intel-based Macs.

This is a very unlikely assumption.
The 2013 Mac Pro is not worth the money anymore.

 

[iAssimilated]

While the 6,1 Mac Pro is not the newest computer out there, it is still a very capable machine, especially for what you need it for. If dual booting and/or Windows compatibility is a requirement for you then this system should do just fine. Either way, it will be better than the 2012 mini.

 

[iAssimilated]

This is a very unlikely assumption.
The 2013 Mac Pro is not worth the money anymore.

People say that about the 2012 Mac Pro as well, but I would love one as a sweet linux rig!

Not everyone needs the latest and greatest, just a solid and reliable system.

 

[chrfr]

People say that about the 2012 Mac Pro as well, but I would love one as a sweet linux rig!

Not everyone needs the latest and greatest, just a solid and reliable system.

The 2012 is an entirely different thing. Everything except the RAM inside the 2013 is proprietary, and they're not especially fast or reliable.

 

[GSWForever8]

Go for the Mac mini! The pro is going to be outdated soon. If you really want a pro, then get a Mac Pro 2019, which is overkill.

 

[DFP1989]

Not everyone needs the latest and greatest, just a solid and reliable system.

Considering the issues many on this forum have had with dying GPUs and other components inside the 6,1 I wouldn’t consider it especially solid or reliable.

 

[iAssimilated]

Considering the issues many on this forum have had with dying GPUs and other components inside the 6,1 I wouldn’t consider it especially solid or reliable.

I believe you can insert any Apple product (as well as any technology in general) in that statement and it would be true. What we seem to forget is what we read on this forum isn't necessarily the reality for most Apple users. I am not looking to get in an argument, but YMMV is very real. Also, my intention is not to hijack this thread.

 

[victor.espina]

The 2012 is an entirely different thing. Everything except the RAM inside the 2013 is proprietary, and they're not especially fast or reliable.

The MacPro5.1 would be great, but for the fact that is not Catalina/BigSur compatible. Also, the form factor is a little too big for my taste (alltought its a beautiful cabin for sure).

 

[victor.espina]

Go for the Mac mini! The pro is going to be outdated soon. If you really want a pro, then get a Mac Pro 2019, which is overkill.

A MacPro 2019 its out of the question. If I were able to spend 6k in a computer, I wouldn't be asking here

 

[chrfr]

The MacPro5.1 would be great, but for the fact that is not Catalina/BigSur compatible. Also, the form factor is a little too big for my taste (alltought its a beautiful cabin for sure).

I wouldn't recommend one of those either. I'd either get the M1 Mini or if Intel compatibility is important, get one of the 2018/2020 Minis. Either will outlast the Mac Pro 6,1.

 

[victor.espina]

People say that about the 2012 Mac Pro as well, but I would love one as a sweet linux rig!

Not everyone needs the latest and greatest, just a solid and reliable system.

That's true. I have to admit that the aesthetics of the MacPro its a big plus for me, personally. I definitely assign a value to that aspect but not at the expense of taking a bad decision. But I am tempted... very tempted, indeed.

 

[Soba]

I echo the concerns of others on this thread about buying a 2013 Mac Pro. Its future support is questionable and these machines had significant reliability problems.

Would you consider buying a new 2018 Mac mini? (Edit: @chrfr beat me to it.) It will probably be supported with OS releases longer than the 2013 Mac Pro and you already said you like the form factor. With enough RAM, it should perform very well for your virtualization needs and would be a seamless migration from your current mini.

It is possible that Apple Silicon Macs will provide some kind of virtualization in the future, but until then, a newer Intel Mac should work great for you. If it turns out that we will never be able to run Intel platform OSes in VMs on Apple Silicon, you can always keep the Intel Mac mini for VMs and buy a modern Apple Silicon Mac for your other work. You could even do this right now with your 2012 Mini and a new M1 mini, if you wish.

 

[complaxneoda]

I don't live in the US neither, and iMacs are too expensive and don't have the mobility the MacMini or even the MacPro 2013 have. What you said is true; I am ACTUALLY working with a computer with hardware even OLDER than the MacPro and, so far, hadn't any issues with the accessories I've purchased....of course, those are simple and basic accessories, nothing fancy or cutting edge... so maybe this point is not that bad as it may seems at first time.

Mac Pro 6,1 is heavier than you think it is. It is not a machine you can carry to everywhere. Besides, you would not love to just put it in your bag without any protection, so it is like an iMac.

All in all, I think what you need to do is make sure that 1500USD improve your experience singnificantly.

 

[complaxneoda]

People say that about the 2012 Mac Pro as well, but I would love one as a sweet linux rig!

Not everyone needs the latest and greatest, just a solid and reliable system.

The difference between 2012 and 2013 is the PCIe slots. PCIe slots makes 2012 can using modern hardwares easily. 12 cores Mac pro 2012 with modern GPU can beat 12 cores Mac pro 2013 easily.

 

[iAssimilated]

That's true. I have to admit that the aesthetics of the MacPro its a big plus for me, personally. I definitely assign a value to that aspect but not at the expense of taking a bad decision. But I am tempted... very tempted, indeed.

I agree with you on the aesthetics of the 2013 Mac Pro... it is legendary! I bought one primarily for the reason. I got one with a 12 core and 64GB of RAM for a good deal, so I couldn't pass it up. I partly justified the purchase because I was buying a piece of history, much like investing in a Mac G4 Cube, although the 2013 Mac Pro is much more functional for me at this point in time than a G4 Cube.

If the aesthetics aren't that important, then I agree with @Soba and @chrfr regarding the 2018 mini. I have the i7 model with 32GB of RAM and it is a beast! Especially when paired with an eGPU. My 2018 mini is my primary Mac and I love it! Other bonuses are Thunderbolt 3/USB C, optional 10 Gigabit ethernet, native/VM x86 compatibility, and longer support life. Cons: if you use a lot of wireless and/or bluetooth accessories then you might run into disconnect issues and you might have problems with your monitor if you use HDMI. I didn't mention the mini earlier because a similar setup might run you over your budget.

 

[iAssimilated]

The difference between 2012 and 2013 is the PCIe slots. PCIe slots makes 2012 can using modern hardwares easily. 12 cores Mac pro 2012 with modern GPU can beat 12 cores Mac pro 2013 easily.

I agree with you 100%, but I have the same issue with the 2012 Mac Pro as @victor.espina does, it does not support Big Sur. I have one at work running Mojave and it has been great, but feels a bit long in the tooth for computing in 2021. With that said, if I could install KDE neon and a RX580 or Vega 56 in it then it would be an amazing box!

 

[victor.espina]

I agree with you on the aesthetics of the 2013 Mac Pro... it is legendary! I bought one primarily for the reason. I got one with a 12 core and 64GB of RAM for a good deal, so I couldn't pass it up. I partly justified the purchase because I was buying a piece of history, much like investing in a Mac G4 Cube, although the 2013 Mac Pro is much more functional for me at this point in time than a G4 Cube.

If the aesthetics aren't that important, then I agree with @Soba and @chrfr regarding the 2018 mini. I have the i7 model with 32GB of RAM and it is a beast! Especially when paired with an eGPU. My 2018 mini is my primary Mac and I love it! Other bonuses are Thunderbolt 3/USB C, optional 10 Gigabit ethernet, native/VM x86 compatibility, and longer support life. Cons: if you use a lot of wireless and/or bluetooth accessories then you might run into disconnect issues and you might have problems with your monitor if you use HDMI. I didn't mention the mini earlier because a similar setup might run you over your budget.

"if you use a lot of wireless and/or bluetooth accessories then you might run into disconnect issues" Totally!! I suffer from that already. I recently bought a Keychrone K6 mechanical keyboard and had to use it wired because on BT it caused so much problems with my magic mouse...

I agree with @Soba and @chrfr that my best options seems to be:

a) Sell my MacMini and buy a new MacMini Intel 2018 with 32 GB RAM and a good external TB NVMe hard disk for all my personal files (the internal 256 GB would be dedicated for system and apps only). Pros: top of the line hardware that will support any new intel MacOS versions that may come in the near future. Almost twice the power of my current Mac. Cons: it would cost me more money than the other options.

b) Keep my MacMini for Windows virtualization and buy a new Mac Mini M1 with 16 GB. Pros: best of both worlds. MacMinis can be piled up easily. Cons: Apple could launch a new MacMini (M2 ?) later this year.

c) Keep my current MacMini and hold until the next year to see what will Apple announce at the end of this year.

These would be the logical options that get the most from my money... but, damn!! I really love that MacPro Well, I guess I can always buy one later in the future, just for collection.

Thank you all very much for your valuable opinions.

 

[complaxneoda]

"if you use a lot of wireless and/or bluetooth accessories then you might run into disconnect issues" Totally!! I suffer from that already. I recently bought a Keychrone K6 mechanical keyboard and had to use it wired because on BT it caused so much problems with my magic mouse...

I agree with @Soba and @chrfr that my best options seems to be:

a) Sell my MacMini and buy a new MacMini Intel 2018 with 32 GB RAM and a good external TB NVMe hard disk for all my personal files (the internal 256 GB would be dedicated for system and apps only). Pros: top of the line hardware that will support any new intel MacOS versions that may come in the near future. Almost twice the power of my current Mac. Cons: it would cost me more money than the other options.

b) Keep my MacMini for Windows virtualization and buy a new Mac Mini M1 with 16 GB. Pros: best of both worlds. MacMinis can be piled up easily. Cons: Apple could launch a new MacMini (M2 ?) later this year.

c) Keep my current MacMini and hold until the next year to see what will Apple announce at the end of this year.

These would be the logical options that get the most from my money... but, damn!! I really love that MacPro Well, I guess I can always buy one later in the future, just for collection.

Thank you all very much for your valuable opinions.

option A: you can buy a refurbished one and upgrade ram by yourselves. If you are using a macOS that Mac mini 2018 can run, you could boot from your old drive directly.