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dr_lha said:
In Europe I believe Macs are assembled in Cork, Ireland and not exported from the USA. I think this establishes a big enough presence for Apple in Europe that they would be required to follow the rules of the EU Product Warranty Directive.

I don't post here very often - but let's try and settle this EU Product Warranty Directive point :)

It doesn't actually matter where the mac is assembled, as whether it is assembled in the EU or outside the EU, if it was bought from Apple within the EU they would be a "producer", as defined in article 2(b) of the Directive as a "manufacturer of consumer goods, the importer of consumer goods into the territory of the Community or any person purporting to be a producer by placing his name, trade mark or other distinctive sign on the consumer goods". If it was bought from Apple in the EU, they are caught. If someone else imported a US made Mac into the EU, you wouldn't have a direct claim against Apple, as they wouldn't themselves have done anything within the EU - which covers the point someone made above about the EU having no jurisdiction over American firms - the EU doesn't if it is for anything done in the states. Here the sale was made in the EU, so the directive catches them.


BUT .... the "warranty" is not a two year warranty in the sense that Apple gives a one year limited warranty or three years under Applecare. If you read the Directive (it is here: http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/lex/No...gs=10&hwords=&checktexte=checkbox&visu=#texte ) it imposes the following requirements:

1) The seller must deliver goods to the consumer which are in conformity with the contract of sale. (Article 2(1)). More detail is given in Article 2(2), but this is basically saying they are fit for purpose.

2) The seller shall be liable to the consumer for any lack of conformity which exists at the time the goods were delivered. (Article 3(1)). It only applies if it wasn't fit for purpose at the time of delivery - i.e. you have to show the fault existed when you got it.

3) The seller shall be held liable under Article 3 where the lack of conformity becomes apparent within two years as from delivery of the goods. (Article 5(1)) You have two years from the date of delivery to go to court, if you find out that, on the date you got it, there was something wrong with it. This doesn't mean that if it breaks after 1 and half years you have any rights to repair. Incidentally in the UK you have this general contractual right (called a limitation period) for 6 years under most contracts.

4) If it breaks within the first 6 months then there is an assumption that it was broken on delivery (Article 5(3)). After that you have to prove it.


In summary, Apple's limited warranty therefore (unsurprisingly) gives you at least the rights you are entitled to under EU law (well this Directive anyway :) ). The directive is not, in any case, directly enforceable. Each country will have enacted it into their own law, so you may have more rights under national law - this sets out a bare minimum of consumer rights that are common across the whole of Europe.


This isn't my area of expertise, so don't rely on what I say (although IAL), but reading the law, rather than making wild suppositions based upon its title always seems preferable.
 
Wild speculation is much more fun though. :)

I just feel like I've been told off by teacher.
 
dr_lha said:
Wild speculation is much more fun though. :)

I just feel like I've been told off by teacher.

I didn't really mean you :) You were right, even if you hadn't done your reading before class ;)
 
dr_lha said:
"Assembled" not "made", as in, they stick in the extra RAM/GFX cards/HDs in Cork. Of course the computers are made in China everywhere, but CTO forfillments are done in Cork, just like they are done in California if you're in the USA I believe.

Regardless, I think Apple can clearly be claimed to be a company that operates in Europe, so must follow EU laws and directives.

US BTO's ship straight from China to your front door (at least my iMac BTO did). BTO = Build to Order. I think that's what you mean by CTO, right?

But anyway, I'm not trying to make a determination on how that impacts EU product warranties. That's a topic I'll be the first to admit I know nothing about...
 
m-dogg said:
US BTO's ship straight from China to your front door (at least my iMac BTO did).
Sometimes, but not always. My Mac mini CTO shipped from California, not China. My 12" PB CTO shipped from China.

BTO = Build to Order. I think that's what you mean by CTO, right?
CTO is what Apple call it. I think it means "Configured to Order".
 
m-dogg said:
I didn't think they were made in Cork or California. Those locations may be their primary warehouse/distribution centers for each continent, but I thought they all were made in Aisa.

Apple Website said:
You'll find Apple's European Operations Headquarters in the beautiful, verdant city of Cork, Ireland. The campus hosts a range of divisions including European Telesales, European Apple Store Support, Manufacturing, AppleCare,....

At least some manufacturing is done in Cork, but apparently less than there used to be
 
dr_lha said:
In Europe I believe Macs are assembled in Cork, Ireland and not exported from the USA. I think this establishes a big enough presence for Apple in Europe that they would be required to follow the rules of the EU Product Warranty Directive.
Point of assembly doesn't matter (the US units are made in China and/or the US)--it has to do with the semantics of international business. Being an American company, everything Apple sells is "imported" as a technicality, even if it's actually made down the street. Other American computer vendors (Dell, HP, IBM before the Lenovo switchup) also offer 1 year warranties in the EU. Certain additional statutory protections may apply through various local laws.

It's also important to note that the Product Warranty Directive is not technically a law, but instead a guideline for harmonizing other laws. It is not in and of itself enforceable.

Edit: Should have checked the next page! Beaten to the punch yet again.
 
This thread is going all over the place.

Let's get back to your problem.

You have a Rev A iMac G5.
I'm assuming that the logic board was covered due to faulty capacitors in the mid plane board.

This was a common problem caused by a 3rd party component vendor.

The repair IS still covered under warranty, but if it will not boot at all,
you'll need to take it in to your local store or ship it back.

Have you tried starting up with your OS CD?

Check a few basics, like making sure the RAM is properly seated.

I know it's terribly frustrating, but Apple WILL fix it.
 
WOW :eek: This Post started some serious High skool Drama !!!!!

All this talk of Sarcasm meters flairing and computers overheating & being Bitchin'... i need to go and watch some early Saved by the Bell. :D :D
 
WildCowboy said:
The state of California has more people than most European countries...
Play Ultimate said:
According to The World Factbook published by the CIA, if California were an independent nation, it would have had the ninth largest economy in the world.

I'm loving all the pro-California quotes. :D

Anyways, as previously stated, the MacBook Pro's are "bitchin'", not the customers, and by "bitchin'" Steve probably meant a combination of fast and cool (like when he said that MBP's are "screamers" at MWSF '06).

Although you've had trouble with iMac support, I still think that your wife should have a Mac, and specifically the MacBook Pro. Being the proud owner of one, I've found that it's a very stable computer (laptop pun not intended), and I'm sure that she would enjoy it. As you pointed out yourself, installing a hacked form of Mac OS X 10.4 on a PC is illegal and, so I've heard, quite troublesome. If she wants Tiger, she should get Tiger. With a laptop (in this case the MacBook Pro), it is far easier to get support for any hardware issues for the sole reason that the computer weighs less and it's easier for you to ship to Apple should anything go amiss. Take my advice and go with the MacBook Pro; in the end both you and your wife will be happy that you did.

As for the television ads, it seems to me that Apple is marketing to a very specific audience: those who don't know much about computers, or about Apple computers specifically. Apple has always, since the Macintosh 128K in 1984, been about consumer ease of use, and these ads are there to get that point across to your average Windows user who uses Word, Internet Explorer, and iTunes and wouldn't mind having things be a bit easier when it comes to dealing with viruses, networking, and the like. Most people who do possess large amounts of intellectual capabilities with regards to computers either use a Mac, otherwise they use a PC because they have to to run particular programs, (though Boot Camp could change this) or because they want a free operating system (usually UNIX or Linux). Apple knows this, and so they're marketing Macs to people who don't possess large amounts of intellectual capabilities with regards to computers.

I hope that made sense, and that it helped. :)
 
Willy S said:
I just watched the TV commercial "I´m a Mac and I´m a PC" and combined with Jobs´s "bitchin" comment, I´m really thinking that Mac is mostly aimed at people who posess relatively little intellectual capabilities.

Maybe this is just a part of an American culture, which doesn´t appeal to Europeans like me?

I´m now in the market for a nice portable computer for my wife, who is a very intellectual person and will be awarded with a PhD degree in 2 months. I wanted to get a Mac for her, since PCs don´t support Tiger properly and legally, but I just cannot tolerate that the CEO of Apple is pratically saying that Apple customers, who pay their hard earned cash for high priced, underclocked Macs, are *bitchin.*

I hope Apple´s board will fire this man and hire a CEO that pays some respect to the company´s customers! :mad:


um....ok?
 
WildCowboy said:
*WildCowboy looks around his research lab, seeing Macs outnumbering PCs 15:1...*

Yep..."people who posess relatively little intellectual capabilities"...that's definitely us. :rolleyes:



good man bro :cool: keep up the bitchin work for us intellectual midgets.
 
jaydub said:
I have my associate's degree. That's why I don't have my MBP yet.

So if I follow this correctly (which might not happen, since I'm an American), I am working on my undergraduate degree, and cannot upgrade from my iBook G3 or my PowerMac G4 533 MHz. BLAST!

Jobs was just trying to appeal to the younger crowd, who fuels his company solely in iPod sales. Sure, it was unprofessional, but it was also a decent sales ploy, especially since Apple just sent out an e-mail about "Saving money on a MBP with your student discount, etc.".

Nevertheless, I agree with all the other users, buy a dependable computer, don't just base your decision solely upon the CEO's decision...if you did that and bought a PC with Windows instead, you'd be support a "thief"...Bill Gates didn't design Windows, he bought it off of a friend for cheap.;)
 
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