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So...the Apple Watch isn't FDA cleared. I honestly didn't realize that, not sure how apple has been able to market it without that (I bet it's buried in some deep asterisk).

But it makes the removal of the feature less impactful IMHO, and from one perspective I agree with the Masimo CEO - if it's inaccurate, it's better gone than there.
ECG was FDA cleared. O2 wasn't.
 
So they stole your tech, and so it’s not any good. Or it’s not good compared to yours, meaning they didn’t steal it. Like that seems like a public admittance.
 
So then what's the point of these health features if they aren't reliable?
You'll have to ask Apple why they think these features are useful to their customers. But I surmise that lots of people who are interested in tools to help them live healthy lives find it valuable. For instance, I like the pulse and calorie measurements when I am exercising, but I don't need them to be highly accurate because I am really just interested in trends and patterns.
 
Here’s what Apple says exactly (from the Apple UK website):

IMG_5276.jpeg


And the footnote:

Blood Oxygen app is for wellness purposes only and not for medical use.
 
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If Apple's technology is so bad, according to Masimo, then why does Masimo consider Apple a threat?

If Apple stole Masimo's technology, and Apple's technology is unreliable, then by inference Masimo's technology must be unreliable.

If I want a continuous blood O2 monitor I would get Masimo. Except, uh, I can't buy the Masimo watch. Not on their website, not on Amazon. No one knows if Masimo's technology works as no one can buy the watch. Maybe their technology is so bad, in a wearable device, that Masimo is unable to sell the product.

The continuous monitoring must be a significant drain on the battery in a wearable device. Keeping those LEDs lit, and monitoring the response takes power. The battery life on the Masimo product must be measured watching the minute hand rather than the hour hand.

So here is a plan from Masimo. The technology is so unreliable, we won't sell the technology in a wearable device. But we must also stop Apple from selling a wearable device that we have stated is unreliable because we don't want people to know our technology is unreliable.
 
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You'll have to ask Apple why they think these features are useful to their customers. But I surmise that lots of people who are interested in tools to help them live healthy lives find it valuable. For instance, I like the pulse and calorie measurements when I am exercising, but I don't need them to be highly accurate because I am really just interested in trends and patterns.
That’s a fair point. But blood oxygen levels don’t trend. They should be close to 100% for healthy people.
 
If Apple's technology is so bad, according to Masimo, then why does Masimo consider Apple a threat?

If Apple stole Masimo's technology, and Apple's technology is unreliable, then by inference Masimo's technology must be unreliable.

If I want a continuous blood O2 monitor I would get Masimo. Except, uh, I can't buy the Masimo watch. Not on their website, not on Amazon. No one knows if Masimo's technology works as no one can buy the watch. Maybe their technology is so bad, in a wearable device, that Masimo is unable to sell the product.

The continuous monitoring must be a significant drain on the battery in a wearable device. Keeping those LEDs lit, and monitoring the response takes power. The battery life on the Masimo product must be measured watching the minute hand rather than the hour hand.

So here is a plan from Masimo. The technology is so unreliable, we won't sell the technology in a wearable device. But we must also stop Apple from selling a wearable device that we have stated is unreliable because we don't want people to know our technology is unreliable.
I don’t know why so many people here have trouble understanding this. Massimo’s technology is medical grade. Apple’s implementation of the technology, which Massimo patented, is not. It’s not hard to understand.
 
If Apple's technology is so bad, according to Masimo, then why does Masimo consider Apple a threat?
Couldn't we ask the same thing of Apple and their ridiculous "rounded corners" lawsuits against Samsung?

I mean, after all, if Android is such crap, why sue over something as petty as rounded corners? At least Massimo is suing over actual technology they claim to have developed versus something as absurd as rounded corners on a consumer product, something Apple most definitely did NOT do first.
 
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Not really. Someone can steal another person's tech and not implement it very well. It sounds like Massimo's monitors are continuous, unlike the Apple Watch. Their products are also FDA approved and used throughout the medical industry, unlike Apple's. It's pretty obvious that whatever Apple is doing with Massimo's tech, Apple's solution hasn't been as thoroughly vetted, so maybe Massimo's CEO is right.
Even if Apple's implementation is 100% correct, it is likely that Masimo's CEO would be saying these things to promote their own watch.
 
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From Masimo's website:

Inspired by the same technology that revolutionized pulse oximetry over 30 years ago, miniaturized to capture vitals at the wrist.

If the technology is 30 years old, how long does a patent really last?
 
Couldn't we ask the same thing of Apple and their ridiculous "rounded corners" lawsuits against Samsung?

I mean, after all, if Android is such crap, why sue over something as petty as rounded corners? At least Massimo is suing over actual technology they claim to have developed versus something as absurd as rounded corners on a consumer product, something Apple most definitely did NOT do first.
Before Samsung was copying Apple's designs, they were copying designs from BlackBerry, Motorola, and others.
 
Couldn't we ask the same thing of Apple and their ridiculous "rounded corners" lawsuits against Samsung?
Yes, we could. Along with dozens of other patent infringement cases. Some of the patents the have been approved are ridiculous. Things along the lines of "a method to transfer data between devices". Vague and in some cases completely obvious.
 
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From Masimo's website:



If the technology is 30 years old, how long does a patent really last?
I don’t know about the specific patents that they are defending, but I am sure that they have hundred if not thousands of patents that they have developed over the years. There’s not just one. They have clearly refined this technology, because they are one of the leaders in this field.
 
I don’t know about the specific patents that they are defending, but I am sure that they have hundred if not thousands of patents that they have developed over the years. There’s not just one. They have clearly refined this technology, because they are one of the leaders in this field.
And lot of the new ones have already been tossed and Apple is down to a couple that most likely will also go.
 
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That’s a fair point. But blood oxygen levels don’t trend. They should be close to 100% for healthy people.
I don’t pay any attention to the blood oxygen reading because I figure it’s not very accurate.
 
I’m not a fan of poaching people and stealing patents that said IP and patent length should be reviewed. No reason for parents to exist past 10-15 years. Costs would go down for the consumer across all markets…. In terms of the quality of Apples algorithm and oxygen sensor I’m going to agree. I was recently diagnosed with sleep apnea via a sleep study My O2 levels dropped below 60. My Apple Watch has always showed me at 93 or above this not showing any signs of an issue from that stat.

Not sure what point you are trying to make regarding your sleep apnea results. As has been stated, the O2 tech on the AW is NOT continuous, you have to physically initiate a reading. I dont think you are doing that while sleeping. Likewise, sleep apnea does not have a bearing on your O2 readings when awake. Apple has never claimed to be able to monitor sleep apnea for those reasons. I have sleep apnea as well. I do wear a continuous monitor and its results track well with my Apple Watch. Apple has never represented the AW as a medical device, it's for information only, but I find it reasonable accurate (admittedly I take multiple readings and average them and I dont demand perfection).
 
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That’s a fair point. But blood oxygen levels don’t trend. They should be close to 100% for healthy people.
If the readings are low then it might be an indication of a problem that needs medical attention. It doesn't need to be very reliable to do that minimal level of monitoring. Masimo says it is unreliable because it is not continuous, but continuous monitoring would just eat up the battery unnecessarily.

It's a watch first and foremost. To tell time. Everything else it does is a nice-to-have feature but there are better tools for all of those features. I don't bother trying to use the watch for email, but it is useful to quickly scan incoming messages without picking up my phone or going to my PC.
 
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