MBA-2013-Fan-stuck on high velocity

[CDFermi]

This was posted by error by me onto the MBP (which I used more extensively than the MBA).

Need help shutting down fan on a MBA2013 (M13), or reducing noise. Best would be resetting. It was working just fine (Catalina) after updating to 1TB SSD Fledging Feather SSD.

Went abroad, and the MBA somehow updated from Catalina to Big Sur (Firmware upgrade to 431:0.0.0) even though I had install updates automatically unchecked! and now the MBA comes up with new errors such high fan speed (heat transfer paste new!).

Tried many tricks to change Firmware (should be 421:0.0.0.) including most hacks posted here plus trying old USB (diskwarrier) installer to Yosemite, and also Mojave (running fine on my trusty MBP 2012. I assume that Big Sur installer changed Firmware from 421 to 431. Any sudo command (I am not a programmer), or other command at terminal or by KB combination would be appreciated. Of other solutions would be welcomed as well. Thanks.

 

[Significant1]

Reset SMC

Reset the SMC of your Mac - Apple Support

The SMC is responsible for managing power on your Mac. Resetting it can resolve certain uncommon issues related to power or thermal management.

support.apple.com

That said, either Catalina or Big Sur didn't well on my 2013 11" MBA i7 8GB/512GB until I did a clean installation.

 

[Adenitz]

I seriously doubt the SMC reset or any kind of other reset will solve this. High speed fan is usually a sensor issue.
Please have a look at my personal experience here

First you should install HWMonitor and read all temperature sensor values. There are some critical sensors (such as trackpad) that cause fan to full blast.

 

[Significant1]

I seriously doubt the SMC reset or any kind of other reset will solve this. High speed fan is usually a sensor issue.

It can and I know from personal experience. System Management Controller is the one controlling the fan. Introduction from my Apple link:
Resetting the system management controller (SMC) can resolve certain issues related to power, battery, fans, and other features.

But I also know from personal experience, that that forgetting to connect a sensor cable in my old Mac Mini and Imac, will result in the fan running at full speed.

But trying to debug the problem with HWMonitor or Mac Fan Control is also a good thing do, if SMC reset and nvram reset just for good measure (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204063) doesn't fix it.

 

[CDFermi]

Thanks. I will scrutinize all connections and try again.

 

[Logubie0328]

Hi! I am the Head of Customer Experience at Fledging, and I would love to help you!

Resetting the SMC is a great starting point.

If you can, I recommend creating a USB installer of Catalina and going back to Catalina, as the issue may be caused by the OS upgrade itself. We have seen many people (OEM and third party SSD users alike) experience this, and sometimes the issue was resolved by going back an OS, as their specific computer could not handle the upgrade.

Can you tell me your computer's EMC number, and how full the SSD is, as well? Can you also let me know if the Feather is a Standard or Turbo? Wanting to get you all set to enjoy your Feather!

 

[CDFermi]

Hello everyone and thanks for the suggestions about the original HIGH FAN NOISE post on my MBA model A1465-EMC-2631) which was working just fine until Apple upgraded from Catalina to BigSur (then installed on a Fledging 1TB SSD), working just fine and FAST while in the the US, but would not boot after I arrived to my destination abroad (DID NOT RECOGNIZED THE SSD). Here are the things I tried, many from [Fledging.net/pages/faqs]:

1) Did go back to Mojave in both the original 256GB Apple SSD (obviously, not longer with the original OS shipped), and tried resetting everything possible with KB combinations or terminal commands suggested,

2) Did make a Mojave, a Catalina, and a BigSur USB boot from Apple source URL, cleaned a new Fledging SSD provided, and reinstalled on it "twice each" (HSierra, Mojave, Catalina) and tried resetting PRAM, etc., plus all other suggestions and the fan keeps churning as fast as usual,

3) Installed [HWSensors.6.26.1440.Binaries.dmg] and Not a single reading was too high. Although once, the heat pipe read 129, but it went away pithing 10 minutes ,

4) Because above, I checked as suggested by many here for dirt, corrosion, etc. (see images below) and all was like new. But went ahead and changed the head transfer paste (new Arctic MX4), and all ribbons are tight. DID NOT GO INTO KB! (just in case, I kept the machine in a sealed bag with dozens of silica dehydrating bags,

5) I just finished (LAST TIME I will do this) reformatting the new Fledging SSD and installing Catalina. All is working well EXCEPT THE NOISY FAN (currently about 7500 RPM. Also tried someone suggestion for controlling speed with [SSDFanControl-2.13], but it did not modify speed up/down!

6) If I can not resolve the noisy, I will probably drop the issue soon because it consuming too much of my limited "sick old man" time.

NOTE: The content transferred from TMach after a clean install presents a problem if done through Migration Assistant because this mode ONLY RESTORES the latest backup, which in my case was the damn bigger that screw things up. Hence, I had to restore from TMach itself (Option at boot), and not the Migration Assistant . Not sure if this has a significant bearing on changes I tried to implement.

Thanks to all!

 

[CDFermi]

Hi! I am the Head of Customer Experience at Fledging, and I would love to help you!

Resetting the SMC is a great starting point.

If you can, I recommend creating a USB installer of Catalina and going back to Catalina, as the issue may be caused by the OS upgrade itself. We have seen many people (OEM and third party SSD users alike) experience this, and sometimes the issue was resolved by going back an OS, as their specific computer could not handle the upgrade.

Can you tell me your computer's EMC number, and how full the SSD is, as well? Can you also let me know if the Feather is a Standard or Turbo? Wanting to get you all set to enjoy your Feather!

Thanks Laura, Appreciate your assistance!

 

[Significant1]

Hello everyone and thanks for the suggestions about the original HIGH FAN NOISE post on my MBA model A1465-EMC-2631) which was working just fine until Apple upgraded from Catalina to BigSur (then installed on a Fledging 1TB SSD), working just fine and FAST while in the the US, but would not boot after I arrived to my destination abroad (DID NOT RECOGNIZED THE SSD). Here are the things I tried, many from [Fledging.net/pages/faqs]:

1) Did go back to Mojave in both the original 256GB Apple SSD (obviously, not longer with the original OS shipped), and tried resetting everything possible with KB combinations or terminal commands suggested,

2) Did make a Mojave, a Catalina, and a BigSur USB boot from Apple source URL, cleaned a new Fledging SSD provided, and reinstalled on it "twice each" (HSierra, Mojave, Catalina) and tried resetting PRAM, etc., plus all other suggestions and the fan keeps churning as fast as usual,

3) Installed [HWSensors.6.26.1440.Binaries.dmg] and Not a single reading was too high. Although once, the heat pipe read 129, but it went away pithing 10 minutes ,

4) Because above, I checked as suggested by many here for dirt, corrosion, etc. (see images below) and all was like new. But went ahead and changed the head transfer paste (new Arctic MX4), and all ribbons are tight. DID NOT GO INTO KB! (just in case, I kept the machine in a sealed bag with dozens of silica dehydrating bags,

5) I just finished (LAST TIME I will do this) reformatting the new Fledging SSD and installing Catalina. All is working well EXCEPT THE NOISY FAN (currently about 7500 RPM. Also tried someone suggestion for controlling speed with [SSDFanControl-2.13], but it did not modify speed up/down!

6) If I can not resolve the noisy, I will probably drop the issue soon because it consuming too much of my limited "sick old man" time.

NOTE: The content transferred from TMach after a clean install presents a problem if done through Migration Assistant because this mode ONLY RESTORES the latest backup, which in my case was the damn bigger that screw things up. Hence, I had to restore from TMach itself (Option at boot), and not the Migration Assistant . Not sure if this has a significant bearing on changes I tried to implement.

Thanks to all!

Hope you did smc and nvram reset before all this

 

[Adenitz]

CDFermi​

what I can see from your attachments is the "Palm rest" temperature is missing. When I investigate my own problem, I learned that 2013 models don't show Palm rest sensor values in HW Monitor.

In many cases, problem with the track pad sensor is causing this full speed FAN behavior. If possible, try with known working trackpad.
I don't believe you'll be able to solve this by any kind of reset.

Since your MBA is rather old (A1465), please try to use Apple diagnostic.

Use Apple Diagnostics to test your Mac - Apple Support

Apple Diagnostics, formerly known as Apple Hardware Test, can check your Mac for hardware issues.

support.apple.com

Use key "D" to start diagnostic like described in the APPLE support page. You can also look it up on youtube.

 

[Significant1]

CDFermi​

what I can see from your attachments is the "Palm rest" temperature is missing. When I investigate my own problem, I learned that mid 2013 model doesn't show Palm rest sensor value in HW Monitor.

In many cases, problem with the track pad sensor is causing this full speed FAN behavior. If possible, try with known working trackpad.
I don't believe you'll be able to solve this by any kind of reset.

I so easy done, it should always be first attemp. Especially looking at what he has tried. (The System Management Controller is a small computer by itself, controlling battery, temperatur etc. If it is not running correctly, it doesn't matter what the temperature sensors are reading and if in failure mode full throttle is the safe fallback here)

 

[CDFermi]

I so easy done, it should always be first attemp. Especially looking at what he has tried. (The System Management Controller is a small computer by itself, controlling battery, temperatur etc. If it is not running correctly, it doesn't matter what the temperature sensors are reading and if in failure mode full throttle is the safe fallback here)

Very good inputs. Agree that resets may be of little help. What is weird is that noise came out of no where (SPECIFICALLY AFTER APPLE UPGRADED FROM CATALINA TO BIGSUR!!!!!). And, yes I PROBABLY RESETED PRAM (NEW VMRAM - I RECON) SEVERAL DOZEN TIMES AFTER EVERY ITERATION explained above. The case of my machine is another good example of Apple policy to trash working equipment rather than helping maintain it as it was when we started (Apple EII) and help the company test the dozen of so lemons it produced. In my cases I am NOT interested on pretty bars, coroful skins, etc., etc. I just need to do my scientific writing and reference managing for which the 4 cores of this MBA does just fine. NOT A GAMER, and even when using memory intense Utilities the guts of this machine are fine. In fact, my Mid-2012 MBP, kicks the butt of newer machines when it comes to stability and dependability (traveled most of the globe) and it keeps churning - and yet, when I looked into what apple would give me on trade in: Apple kindly will dispose of it - I recon I could not do that myself. Thanks to you all.

 

[ksj1]

Have you tried cleaning any dust in the fan out? You should be able to take the back off and use a can of compressed air to clean it, but be sure and hold the fan when spraying it. The compressed air will get it going faster than it is designed for and could damage it.

 

[LunarSkydiver]

I also suspect the dust issue.

If you get a P5 pentalobe screwdriver and open up the case, I think it's likely that you'll find that it it's caked with dust and the fans are stuffed full of lint.

Blow the dust away with a can of compressed air and pick out the lint with tweezers.

I had a 2013 MBP and it had the fan problem every 2 years or so. Cleaning the inside of the case fixed the issue.

Another option is to take it to an Apple store and ask them to clean it. Replacing the battery at the same time might also be worthwhile if that is an option.

 

[CDFermi]

I also suspect the dust issue.

If you get a P5 pentalobe screwdriver and open up the case, I think it's likely that you'll find that it it's caked with dust and the fans are stuffed full of lint.

Blow the dust away with a can of compressed air and pick out the lint with tweezers.

I had a 2013 MBP and it had the fan problem every 2 years or so. Cleaning the inside of the case fixed the issue.

Another option is to take it to an Apple store and ask them to clean it. Replacing the battery at the same time might also be worthwhile if that is an option.

Not a single dust particle is on or near the fan and/or cooling system. Please remember that I started with a Apple IIE and owned at least one or more EACH PORTABLE OR DESKTOP MAC ever MADE! Honest. As a researcher needing lots imaging capabilities I had to manually resolved quite a lot is previous issues that lend you guys now with the “magic KB short cuts. Hence I probably tried most suggestions before posting in this forum.

That is why I resent Apple trashing of previous models that while old have led “lemon” flaws as the old machine that we old timer help clean up to arrive at today slick MBP/MBA, etc. I may eventually post Apple response to some of my gripes during the last few decades.

 

[Significant1]

yes I PROBABLY RESETED PRAM (NEW VMRAM - I RECON) SEVERAL DOZEN TIMES AFTER EVERY ITERATION explained above.

PRam/nvram is not the same as SMC. In this situation, it is just for good measure to reset, but it is SMC, which is of intereset to your problem. How to depend on model, as my link in post 2, if I got your model correct, you should:

follow these steps to reset the SMC:

1. Shut down your Mac.
2. On your built-in keyboard, press and hold all of the following keys. Your Mac might turn on.
   • Control
     
     on the left side of your keyboard
   • Option (Alt)
     
     on the left side of your keyboard
   • Shift
     
     on the right side of your keyboard
3. Keep holding all three keys for 7 seconds, then press and hold the power button as well. If your Mac is on, it will turn off as you hold the keys.
   
   
4. Keep holding all four keys for another 7 seconds, then release them.
5. Wait a few seconds, then press the power button to turn on your Mac.

​

 

[Adenitz]

CDFermi, I understand your frustration, I really do. I had even worse problem. After update to BIG Sure, my laptop was bricked. However, it turned out it was not caused by OS update or firmware (SPI rom) corruption, but rather some HW failure on the logic board. Independent repair shop restored it to working condition. Actually I'm typing this message on it. It is Early 2015 4 GB/128 GB with Big Sur 11.4 and so far it works fine. I also know about planned obsolence, but I'm not sure this is your problem.

If I understand correctly the biggest problem now is the high speed fan even with previous version of the MacOS.
Please, try to install the following application: "MACs Fan Control". There you can manually set fan speed. If that works, that means the problem is because SMC sees some sensor out of range or high value. Of course, this is not a solution, since the lapto will throttle to lower CPU frequency and will be noticeably slower. But with this test you can confrm that controlling speed circuit is in working condition.

I didn't give up on my own problem and now I have a full working MBA (one temperature IC chip is removed from the board, but it is not significant). This failed chip shorted some data lines and caused SMC to see other sensors t be out of range.

I really think your problem is a sensor issues most likely not caused by OS upgrade.

So please install Macs Fan control and test it on manual. Please have a look at the attached file. This way you'll confirm your fan control circuitry is OK.

AND PLEASE, if you didn't do it already try this:

How to Use Apple Diagnostics to Check for Mac Hardware Problems

Mac issues can occur for a variety of reasons, but in general most errors can be traced back to unstable software. The best way to prevent problems...

www.macrumors.com

Let us know the results of Apple Diagnostic. From year 2015 and newer models, it is not longer possible to perform this, but it should work on your machine.

 

[CDFermi]

Thank you and sorry for delay acknowledging (health issues). I tried your suggestions and there is no change. The MBA is working fine, except for the fan noise (I am responding from it now), which forces me to keep it in the drawer till I can resolve it.

The resetting did not change anything, and the diagnostic did not show anything new (PPF004 and PPF003) which have been cited before. Apple suggestion was to take to shop because there may be a problem with the fan (duh), and we know what that means.

I ran the sensor reporting Utility and the results suggest all is well as far as temp is concerned. I would therefore appreciate more specific suggestions for potential ribbons, etc I may check by physical inspection.
Basically I giving up on the unit after $500 investment plus labor and your "all" kind advices.

Finally, I thought that perhaps the fact I was connected to a 27 inch thunderbolt monitor when OS was upgraded from Catalina to BigSur, that perhaps a conflict between the units may exist. Yet, after completely reformatting the SSD, and reinstalling Catalina plus restoring from Tmach, there was not change.

 

[julianps]

Not seen it mentioned. There's a free utility called Mac Fan Control. You could download this to see if you can manually control the fans. Pull it back to, say, 3,000RPM then see if any of the sensors start to go out of range (i.e. is the fan actually keeping something cool). Then restart into SAFE MODE, and see if you're getting the same experience.

 

[CDFermi]

Yes, I tried but it won’t change any value regardless of how many clicks I do.
Also forgot to mention that the fan continues running after the MBA is put to sleep, or after closing the lid.

 

[CDFermi]

To me it suggest some type of short circuit?

Moreover, the control-options shift power reset DOES NOT produce the behavior described. That is, the fan comes one and stays on, as soon as the power button is pressed! Hence, I have to shut down from the Finder, or by pressing the power button ONLY for more than 3 sec.

 

[Adenitz]

CDFermi, the fact that you are not able to control speed of the FAN is very important. Even if you have a sensor issue, you should be able to control the fan speed. In your case it is not possible. This means that either Fan itself is indeed faulty, or control circuit on the motherboard is not correct. The fan has 6 pins: 5V constant, Ground, PWM for motor control and speed feedback. Two pins are NC (not connected). Feedback information about the speed goes to SMC and from the SMC goes control signal that controls the MOSFET that in turns create pulses (PWM). Check the fan connector, 5V is very next to feedback speed line. If possible try with another FAN. If that doesn't work you have indeed hardware problem on the board. This should be solvable by any more experienced repair service.

 

[CDFermi]

Thanks for your insightful recommendations, Adenitz. Much appreciate a source for buying the fan. Also, I do not have sufficient (circuitry diagram reading experience) knowledge to trace what you described, but do understand the implications of your recommendations.

 

[Adenitz]

Thanks for your insightful recommendations, Adenitz. Much appreciate a source for buying the fan. Also, I do not have sufficient (circuitry diagram reading experience) knowledge to trace what you described, but do understand the implications of your recommendations.

If I were you, I wouldn‘t buy new fan blindly. It would be good if you had a chance to try it first. There are probably people who sell Macbook parts nearby, so you can try to arrange to test it first. I am sure this was not caused by Big Sur, it was a hw failure.

 

[CDFermi]

CDFermi, the fact that you are not able to control speed of the FAN is very important. Even if you have a sensor issue, you should be able to control the fan speed. In your case it is not possible. This means that either Fan itself is indeed faulty, or control circuit on the motherboard is not correct. The fan has 6 pins: 5V constant, Ground, PWM for motor control and speed feedback. Two pins are NC (not connected). Feedback information about the speed goes to SMC and from the SMC goes control signal that controls the MOSFET that in turns create pulses (PWM). Check the fan connector, 5V is very next to feedback speed line. If possible try with another FAN. If that doesn't work you have indeed hardware problem on the board. This should be solvable by any more experienced repair service.

A) Once again, I thank all who contributed excellent ideas to solve the noisy fan issue. There may be some truth to Adenitz comments as I did tried a used fan from Ifixit, but the problem remained. Here are the interventions that worked somehow as the MBA is working just find running a 2TB flash drive on Catalina:
1) I changed the thermal pasted again to ensure proper CPU cooling,
2) Rechecked all connections,
3) Retraced my steps from before the issue arose,
4) Re-reviewed all comments and decided to run the MBA without the cooling fan,
5) All works fine. In fact, I left the MBA on a burn-run overnight and the only warmth when touching the case was contributed by the exhaust from the Thunderbolt to which is connected.

B) It appears that the person who passed the MBA to the tech from whom I purchased it, inserted the fan ribbon "just enough" to look as it was connected and:
1) All was OK when I first changed the paste and clean the inside because then I DID NOT disconnect the ribbon, and hence did not plug it back in properly,
2) That person may as well have disabled one of the leads by crimping as I had to straighten it out, but did not remove it from the socket,
3) After I plugged the ribbon back into the socket properly the FAN AGAIN STARTED IMMEDIATELY,
4) The logic board may be defective, there is a short somewhere, or another broken (crimped or unsoldered) connection, all issues above my level of tinkering.