The Verge is thoroughly “Meh” on the whole thing. So so (not great battery life), lousy webcam, outdated form factor (not a bad thing, but far from innovative at this point). https://www.theverge.com/21256520/a...pro-2020-review-keyboard-specs-price-features
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MBP 2020 13” 10th Gen - “Meh”
- Thread starter ljmjag
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I enjoy Dieter's commentary but, typically, I find his reviews to be less optimistic of brands. I actually think it's a good thing, on the whole, that someone is really speaking their mind of tech products.
- On Battery Life, while I don't own a 2020 MBP 13", I think it's fair to say that the battery life that Apple and others market is incredibly misleading. In real world use, these laptops are lasting much less than Apple states, and they (and others) should be called out on it.
- On Bezels, Dieter is absolutely correct, 100%. If I had to play devil's advocate for a moment, perhaps we're more focused on the antiquated bezel design because many of us were expecting a refreshed 14" model (a la 16"). But when the Dell XPS and other laptops are pushing the boundaries on screen-to-bezel ratio, I think it's fair for The Verge to call that out.
In all honesty what is innovative with it? Its a spec bump, nothing more.
I don't think Apple intended to be innovative... actually, I think they were in a rush to get the new keyboard into the 13" Pro. Everything else was just thrown in to justify calling it a "new" 2020 model. Maybe they intended to release the 14" version here, but were delayed with everything going on right now.
I'm a bit disappointed, but I did buy one because I'm itching to get out of my 2017 15" Pro. I wanted something more portable even given the compromises (particularly in GPU performance).
I'm a bit disappointed, but I did buy one because I'm itching to get out of my 2017 15" Pro. I wanted something more portable even given the compromises (particularly in GPU performance).
I like Dieter's reviews too. And I use both Macs and Windows regularly. I have the 2020 on the way to replace my 2015 13", which still holds up pretty well. I had a 2017, but that keyboard was crap and it's what forced me to return to windows machines after about a decade away. My business could not afford the downtime to have that computer serviced time and again. But, truth be told, the more interesting computers these days have been on the windows side of things - touchscreens, pen usage, better native resolutions, interesting form factors, lighter weight, slimmer and much longer battery life. I love macs for the convenience of the ecosystem which is a HUGE plus when working - but when my day is done and I need to get some real typing done - I grab a ThinkPad "X" series - which is the "anti-mac" - but I can pound the keys, spill a cup of coffee on the keyboard and drop the stupid thing on the floor - and it just keeps working. Also, with premier service (about the cost of Apple Care), if anything on the computer breaks - I have a tech at my office the next day to repair it. That's hard to beat.
I remember when you would envy Apple Laptops for its innovations, the usability, the marriage of form and function - Dieter isn't wrong - it's just kind of "meh". Truth be told, the touch bar is an innovation without a real purpose. And while 4 thunderbolt ports is nice - I can't be the only one who misses a usb port or two and an sd card reader. There are slimmer and lighter windows machines with better battery life that managed to keep them, so I don't want to hear that there's no room for it. I'm not a fan of having to carry around a dongle. It seems so mid-80s to me.
Here's hoping there's something exciting in the pipeline.
I remember when you would envy Apple Laptops for its innovations, the usability, the marriage of form and function - Dieter isn't wrong - it's just kind of "meh". Truth be told, the touch bar is an innovation without a real purpose. And while 4 thunderbolt ports is nice - I can't be the only one who misses a usb port or two and an sd card reader. There are slimmer and lighter windows machines with better battery life that managed to keep them, so I don't want to hear that there's no room for it. I'm not a fan of having to carry around a dongle. It seems so mid-80s to me.
Here's hoping there's something exciting in the pipeline.
If I could run MacOS on a Lenovo X1 Carbon, I would buy it in an instant. That keyboard is pure perfection.
I agree that Apple primarily wanted to get the new keyboard out. The 13” Pro is a volume seller, and the sooner they were past the controversial butterfly keyboard era the better. The price drops and the new processor option on the higher end models were gravy, and likely prompted by the current economic environment.
I’m guessing the new keyboard itself may be “enough” to prompt upgrades. For example, people with 2015 machines who were holding off now can upgrade without worrying about the keyboard.
I have a 2018 and I'm replacing because of the keyboard! (also going from 15" to 13" but that's another story)
This. If these laptops from 2016-2019 had functioning keyboards, people would be right in saying its to early to upgrade. But because we’ve lived in strange times these past few years with Apple’s Mac lineup, I think it’s perfectly normal to jump ship on a 2018 model. I’ll be doing to same, but I may wait for the 14” MBP to launch.
IT HAS A WORKING KEYBOARD
This is a new thing for recent MacBooks
👌 💯You win!
This should be the number one point of all reviewers!Even the 16" does not hold a candle to this TBH:
The thinner bezels help with a lot of things:
1. Looks cool.
2. Either more screen real estate for the same size, or a more compact size. A 14.5" MacBook Pro with much smaller bezels would have been even more compact than the current 13" MacBook Pro and yet it would have a noticeably bigger screen.
It's a valid argument because literally, everyone else but Apple is thinning the bezels. In fact, Apple did thin the bezels on their phones and iPads, but it took them this long to thin the bezels on the Mac. Or actually, I take that back. It took them this long to NOT thin the bezels on the Mac. The 16" has a bigger screen, and the sides are smaller than before but I wouldn't even call it a "thin bezel". There are the top and bottom portions, and despite them looking super large and hideous, the included webcam is still horrible, with no Face ID support. On the other hand, the iPad Pro has had Face ID for God knows how long.
The Verge has all the reasons in the world to call this out, and I bet... they will have all of the reasons to call this out again next year, and the year after, and the year after... until Apple does a redesign of the 16". That is, if they still even care that much about the Mac at that point.
The Dell XPS 15 and 17 are certainly impressive, and I recommend them to Windows fans, but it’s important to point out they make compromises of their own. The base models have 1080p screens, and the 4K screens on the higher-end models are battery hogs. The 16” MBP is a good machine, and the 13” Pro i5 holds its own against the Dell XPS 13 with the i7. Also, the MacBook Pros have wider color gamut, and better speakers.
My guess is that Apple is reserving the more radical redesigns for when it switches to ARM. While switching to Intel was certainly the right decision 15 years ago, the reality is that it put Apple on a level playing field with the rest of the market. Given that IBM/Motorola fell behind Intel in the early 2000s, the switch made sense then. But now, Apple and all the other PC manufacturers have the same chips to work with, and need to make the same decisions between bleeding edge technology, yields, battery life, and components.
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The reality is that this is enough to win sales right now. Apple likely has more radical redesigns in the works, particularly if they switch to ARM chips, but for now, stopgap moves are sufficient for their sales.IT HAS A WORKING KEYBOARD
This is a new thing for recent MacBooks
Yup. I had been holding off for at least *2 years* to replace my machine due to the keyboard problems.
Sorry but I can't take anything from The Verge seriously after their outstanding video on how to build a $2000 gaming PC. They're a joke! There are far more reputable and knowledgeable sources for reviews out there.
A little bit more reputable source here
2020 13-inch MacBook Pro review: The standard macOS workhorse
A new keyboard and faster performance make this slightly thicker laptop a winner.
arstechnica.com
Oh no, I do agree that the Windows computers come with their own compromises. That's why I'm still using a Mac as my main computer.
But I'm honestly not blind to the fact that Apple has pretty much left the Mac platform to dry, and they are only going through the motion of an "update" just because there is still a market that they can service (or that they can "rip off", depending on perspective). Apple's switch to ARM will have to happen in a more gradual fashion this time, if it is going to be a thing at all. The problem is that while ARM chips are surely very efficient and can take on Intel for most consumer-level portable devices, they honestly still can't quite reach the level necessary for "professionals". A lot of software that are on the Mac are still entrenched in the x86/Intel architecture, and to abruptly ask for a transition is not a smart move.
Plus they already have the chassis, board and everything designed and figured out for an Intel 16" MacBook Pro since last year. It would not make any sense for them to drop a new design within a year or two, so I would not anticipate an ARM MacBook until at least 3 years later.
But that also means we'll be stuck with thick bezels for 4 years from now. For better or worse.
They have probably made the decision that the bezels aren’t a dealbreaker for most people. In any case these past 2 months have shown the value of the Mac line, and Apple wouldn’t be contemplating an ARM transition if they didn’t value the Mac. They’d have just told everyone to buy iPads by now.
I’m less convinced about the bezel thing. It’s true, bezel-less screens certainly have a “wow” factor, but they lack that border that helps our brains recognize where the screen ends. Apple always puts a noticeable “frame” around their screens and I thought that was for this very reason.
Some valid points there on the Dell XPS range.
The other big issue of course is they run Windows. This is not a Microsoft hate post - just that a lot of work is done in VM's these days. You have the issue of installing Linux for similar workflow brings more admin (touch screen support etc).
I think it also depends on what you were using before hand. Like before I had a 2014 model and now I've got the 2020 13" i5 10th gen and can see massive improvements.
Lots of great points above. I think the strongest point is that Apple believes they only needed to make such a small update in these models to win sales (and/or to not lose market share to other Windows laptop manufacturers). If the marketplace wasn’t so platform dependent as it is, I suspect we would have seen more growth in the Mac over the past 5 years, and that’s unfortunate for consumers.
I suspect we’ll see thinner bezels on an ARM MacBook, a redesigned of the old 12” model with a 13” screen. Apple’s A14 chip will likely be more efficient to power a larger screen in a smaller body. Additionally, I suspect that they’re holding out on Face ID authentication for the ARM transition, perhaps for security reasons. From a business standpoint, I suspect Apple felt that they could continue to garner the same sales from slow updates to the old Intel based architecture while they invested their new features in the upcoming ARM based architecture. In their mind, they didn’t want invest in a dying platform and want to drive sales toward a platform that they have control over and more advantageous profit margins.
I suspect we’ll see thinner bezels on an ARM MacBook, a redesigned of the old 12” model with a 13” screen. Apple’s A14 chip will likely be more efficient to power a larger screen in a smaller body. Additionally, I suspect that they’re holding out on Face ID authentication for the ARM transition, perhaps for security reasons. From a business standpoint, I suspect Apple felt that they could continue to garner the same sales from slow updates to the old Intel based architecture while they invested their new features in the upcoming ARM based architecture. In their mind, they didn’t want invest in a dying platform and want to drive sales toward a platform that they have control over and more advantageous profit margins.
I like the style of his reviews and I think he’s pretty objective. I can understand the muted response to this spec bump - its the same response as we’ve seen on here to be fair. It was all about getting the keyboard sorted and for whatever reason, that’s all Apple felt they could do.
That might be related to the rumoured redesign due in 2021 and/or the potential move to ARM?
Edited to say - A lot of what Apple still gets better than any other manufacturer - i.e. trackpads seems to go unsaid these days, possibly because people don’t think its worth re-stating.
That might be related to the rumoured redesign due in 2021 and/or the potential move to ARM?
Edited to say - A lot of what Apple still gets better than any other manufacturer - i.e. trackpads seems to go unsaid these days, possibly because people don’t think its worth re-stating.
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I do hope whatever form it takes they have a significant re-think for the line coming up. Apple's whole MacBook lineup is pretty boring from a consumer POV at the moment. The worst part is probably that you only really have a choice of two machines - an (expensive) 16 inch workstation, or a 13 inch thin and light. Yes you get a few more features and more power as you pay more with the latter, but there's no reason to be offering three hugely overlapping 13" machines to the exclusion of almost all else.