Mesh network or...

[rhett7660]

Hello,

I am looking to upgrade my network since I now have a lot of items connected to (see list) and I am feeling some of the pain when it comes to streaming to the various devices in the house. So here is what I am currently running:

I have a single Verizon Fios router handling both hardwired and wifi along with two Apple expresses working as extenders along with one other extender down stairs. I have 38 devices connected to my network either hardwired or wifi. I have a 3500sq two story house that does have some dead spots.

So hopefully someone can help me out on how I should manage all of this, if I should go Mesh or something else.

Thanks.

 

[EugW]

It should be noted that Apple is now selling a Linksys mesh solution:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-now-sells-linksys-velop-wifi-mesh-routers.2100219/

 

[MCAsan]

Replaced my Apple Extremes with Netgear Orbi and have much better coverage.

 

[rhett7660]

Replaced my Apple Extremes with Netgear Orbi and have much better coverage.

If you don't mind me asking how many devices are you using and how big is the area you are covering? I have been looking at the Orbi or Eero setup. I like the fact the Orbi is only two devices for what I am looking to do and would cover the amount of area I am looking to cover.

 

[Strelok]

Where are your hardwired connections? Are they located near the dead spots? It might make more sense to just add some routers/access points in that case.

 

[rhett7660]

Where are your hardwired connections? Are they located near the dead spots? It might make more sense to just add some routers/access points in that case.

It is not so much dead spots, although I do have them, it is more my network is becoming more congested and am hoping an upgrade in equipment might give me more through-put. I have a nice size pipe but with the amount of items I now have on my network it seems to be getting congested. I have several AE throughout the house, both hardwired, but it still seems like my network is not optimized for everything I have on it. I am wondering if I have to many extenders on the network which is why I am looking to replace those items and move to something with a little more coverage and also a wider pipe for my internal working items.

Right now I have the following for controlling my network:

1 FIOS router which is also acting as WIFI hub
1 48 port router 10/100/1000 media closet
1 8 port switch 10/100/1000 media center
2 AE hardwired set up with the same SSID and PW.
1 extender used just for my Ring Doorbell, but the lag on it is pretty bad.

 

[aristobrat]

I have several AE throughout the house, both hardwired, but it still seems like my network is not optimized for everything I have on it.

That was my original setup. I had one upstairs on one side of the house, and one downstairs on the other side of the house.

The issue I had was that devices wouldn't change APs as quickly as I wanted them to. If I was working upstairs, the device would likely connect to the upstairs AP and get 200+ Mbps throughput on bandwidth tests. But if I walked downstairs to the other side of the house (close to the downstairs AP), the device would still stay connected to the upstairs AP. Bandwidth tests there would show it's "only" getting 20 Mpbs (the horror, right?). If it would just switch over to the downstairs AP, it'd get 200+ Mbps again.

I've since switched to Ubiquiti access points. They are not mesh, but I can control the strength of the WiFi signal of each AP, as well as set specific signal levels at which it kicks off clients (forcing them to try to connect to another AP). This helps with the issue above by making it way more likely all devices will connect to their closest AP, vs. trying to hang on to a signal from an AP that's further away.

 

[rhett7660]

That was my original setup. I had one upstairs on one side of the house, and one downstairs on the other side of the house.

The issue I had was that devices wouldn't change APs as quickly as I wanted them to. If I was working upstairs, the device would likely connect to the upstairs AP and get 200+ Mbps throughput on bandwidth tests. But if I walked downstairs to the other side of the house (close to the downstairs AP), the device would still stay connected to the upstairs AP. Bandwidth tests there would show it's "only" getting 20 Mpbs (the horror, right?). If it would just switch over to the downstairs AP, it'd get 200+ Mbps again.

I've since switched to Ubiquiti access points. They are not mesh, but I can control the strength of the WiFi signal of each AP, as well as set specific signal levels at which it kicks off clients (forcing them to try to connect to another AP). This helps with the issue above by making it way more likely all devices will connect to their closest AP, vs. trying to hang on to a signal from an AP that's further away.

I have a feeling that is what is happening with me also, tack on the amount of devices I am now using across my network both hardwired and via WIFI. EEEEEK!

I have looked at those but my only issue with them, is they look like they would be great for ceiling installation, I don't have any drop points in the ceiling.

 

[EugW]

That was my original setup. I had one upstairs on one side of the house, and one downstairs on the other side of the house.

The issue I had was that devices wouldn't change APs as quickly as I wanted them to. If I was working upstairs, the device would likely connect to the upstairs AP and get 200+ Mbps throughput on bandwidth tests. But if I walked downstairs to the other side of the house (close to the downstairs AP), the device would still stay connected to the upstairs AP. Bandwidth tests there would show it's "only" getting 20 Mpbs (the horror, right?). If it would just switch over to the downstairs AP, it'd get 200+ Mbps again.

I've since switched to Ubiquiti access points. They are not mesh, but I can control the strength of the WiFi signal of each AP, as well as set specific signal levels at which it kicks off clients (forcing them to try to connect to another AP). This helps with the issue above by making it way more likely all devices will connect to their closest AP, vs. trying to hang on to a signal from an AP that's further away.

I have three hardwired Airports in my house and I don't have the problem you are describing. The router is actually my Bell Sagemcom fibre optic Gigabit router, but I have turned off client WiFi for that and just use it to route. The Airports are all acting as access points. They seem to hand off to each other reasonably well, with no settings or user intervention. My Airport Extreme 802.11ac is strong enough to cover most of the house, but is weak in some spots. So, I have an Extreme 802.11n on the other side of the house to get strong signal and to cover the last bit of range which would otherwise be a dead spot. I also have an 802.11n Airport Express in my garage/home theatre.

If I take my laptop and stand beside the 802.11ac Airport Extreme, obviously it has that at full signal. However, if I walk 3/4 of the way to the other 802.11n Airport Extreme, it would have already switched seamlessly, and doesn't drop to 20 Mbps as you describe.

However, the behaviour you describe is exactly how it would be when I had TrendNET access points, or a mixture of Airports and non-Apple access points. Furthermore, on the current Airport network, I get the behaviour you describe with my Windows 10 laptop. IOW, I only get the proper handoff with Mac or iOS devices on the current all Airport network.

I have an odd L shaped house, and it's pretty big with two storeys and a basement. Thus, even with three access points it's not ideal WiFi coverage. Ideal would be 4. Given my otherwise good results with Airports and Apple WiFi clients, I'm considering picking up another Airport Extreme for this place, despite Apple's discontinuation of development of them, but I would only pay refurb prices. I haven't seen it on the refurb store in a very long time unfortunately. However, I would also consider getting the Linksys Velop mesh system too if the prices drop. That way the handoff would be good for Android and Windows devices too, not just Apple devices. Luckily that is not a major issue for me. Most of my non-Apple devices are hardwired or stationary in the house.

 

[VideoFreek]

I have looked at those but my only issue with them, is they look like they would be great for ceiling installation, I don't have any drop points in the ceiling.

Ubiquiti access points such as the UAP-AC-PRO can be wall- or ceiling-mounted, but as you know they do require a hardwire connection to your router/ switch. The POE feature is great--a single Cat 5e/6 cable handles power and data.

Ubiquiti APs are value-priced enterprise-grade offerings, so the comparison to consumer mesh systems is a bit apples and oranges. Enterprise APs are optimized for stability and handling large numbers of clients; while consumer wireless routers tend to emphasize speed for relatively few clients, as you'd expect. The Ubiquitis provide a wealth of advanced features, but require a controller, which can be handled via a mobile app, a dedicated "cloud key" they sell for $80, or controller software running on an always-on computer. Bottom-line: more powerful and capable overall, but more of a pain to set up and operate than a consumer mesh system.

A wired backhaul is always going to be superior to wireless, but as you say, installing wiring can be a pain. You may want to reconsider whether a ceiling mount is really impossible--usually it's only a matter of how much wallboard patching you're willing to put up with.

If hardwiring is really out of the question, then a mesh system is the answer. Orbi in particular seems to get great reviews, though competing offerings such as Linksys Velop also seem to be decent.

One more consideration: of your 38 devices, how many are really bandwidth-hungry? I too have a lot of crap connected in my home, but most devices consume little to no bandwidth: wireless bathroom scales, Nest Protect smoke detectors, a Harmony remote hub, etc. What really matters are devices that move a lot of data: PCs doing backups, tablets streaming video, etc. If you have a lot of these things that will be in use concurrently, this might tip the balance in favor of going with enterprise gear.

Good luck!

 

[rhett7660]

Ubiquiti access points such as the UAP-AC-PRO can be wall- or ceiling-mounted, but as you know they do require a hardwire connection to your router/ switch. The POE feature is great--a single Cat 5e/6 cable handles power and data.

Ubiquiti APs are value-priced enterprise-grade offerings, so the comparison to consumer mesh systems is a bit apples and oranges. Enterprise APs are optimized for stability and handling large numbers of clients; while consumer wireless routers tend to emphasize speed for relatively few clients, as you'd expect. The Ubiquitis provide a wealth of advanced features, but require a controller, which can be handled via a mobile app, a dedicated "cloud key" they sell for $80, or controller software running on an always-on computer. Bottom-line: more powerful and capable overall, but more of a pain to set up and operate than a consumer mesh system.

A wired backhaul is always going to be superior to wireless, but as you say, installing wiring can be a pain. You may want to reconsider whether a ceiling mount is really impossible--usually it's only a matter of how much wallboard patching you're willing to put up with.

If hardwiring is really out of the question, then a mesh system is the answer. Orbi in particular seems to get great reviews, though competing offerings such as Linksys Velop also seem to be decent.

One more consideration: of your 38 devices, how many are really bandwidth-hungry? I too have a lot of crap connected in my home, but most devices consume little to no bandwidth: wireless bathroom scales, Nest Protect smoke detectors, a Harmony remote hub, etc. What really matters are devices that move a lot of data: PCs doing backups, tablets streaming video, etc. If you have a lot of these things that will be in use concurrently, this might tip the balance in favor of going with enterprise gear.

Good luck!

I have a feeling this is more of what I am dealing with than anything else. So it looks like I will be looking a little more into what you are suggesting. There is a lot of data that moved across my network both wired and wireless. I also have a feeling I just have some areas in the house that have poor coverage and I know a system like what you are mentioning would take care of the problem.


Thank you for your input!!!!

 

[MCAsan]

If you don't mind me asking how many devices are you using and how big is the area you are covering? I have been looking at the Orbi or Eero setup. I like the fact the Orbi is only two devices for what I am looking to do and would cover the amount of area I am looking to cover.

Orbi set is 2 base stations. They are on either end of a 2500' house that has lots of walls, staircase...etc.

 

[rhett7660]

Orbi set is 2 base stations. They are on either end of a 2500' house that has lots of walls, staircase...etc.

Thank you. I am assuming it has been pretty solid for you?

 

[mmomega]

First are you in an apartment or have many wifi networks within range of you.
Just having many overlapping networks and channels can cause interference. Sometimes jsut choosing a different wifi channel can make a difference.

I won't go into detail of my background or setup but I'm also a fan of Ubiquiti, their equipment and what they have built over the years.
One of the founders if not THE founder worked for Apple under the airport line back in the day which explains a bit of their attention to simplicity across the UniFi line.

So my suggestion would be just go check out AmpliFi HD.
It is Ubiquiti's Home Consumer Mesh WiFi system.

My other suggestion would be to just go B---s Deep and pick up a UniFi Security Gateway, a UniFi Switch with PoE, a couple AC Pro or in-wall Access Points. Grab a 1000' of CAT6 from monoprice for about $130 and spend one weekend dropping cables.
Especially if youre staying in the home for the foreseeable future. Going forward you'll be thankful you put the work in.

 

[MCAsan]

Thank you. I am assuming it has been pretty solid for you?

Better than my previous network of Extreme base stations!

 

[m4v3r1ck]

Coming from an old school HP-1810-8Gv2 - x2 wired network, I totally gave in after lurking about the Ubiquiti UniFi Network Solutions. Got myself some new gear last week, wired with 10Gbps - future upgrade by ISP? - cat6a.

Happy humming new network configuration:

- USG-3P
- US-8-POE-150W
- US-8-POE-60W
- UAP-AC-PRO

Very happy - although not the easiest of Networking setups - but I was very fortunate that I had some great help and support by the Dutch Synology Forums. I'm a big fan of Synology as well for my onsite back-up solotion: DS1812+ -> KPN Back-up Online / BackBlazeB2Cloud currently in testmode.

Cheers!