MP 1,1-5,1 Metal compatible Graphics Card for MAC Pro 5.1 upgrade to Mojave for Cinema 4d and Arnold Renderer

[Mylo3000]

Hi all,

I’m upgrading my Mac Pro (mid 2010) 8 core (2 x 2.4 quad core intel xeon) to Mojave for work and I need some advice on a Metal compatible Graphics card for the upgrade.

Some threads I’ve seen talk about this card, a “AMD radeon rx 580 8gb” and others talk of this card, “Sapphire Nitro+ Special Edition RX 580”, and also this card “SAPPHIRE Radeon PULSE RX 580 8GB GDDR5 (is this the same as the first)”

So my question is what card do I upgrade to. The Mac I’m using is my work horse, which because of the current situation is needing an urgent power boost! I’m a cgi artist and image professional mainly using cinema 4d r21 with Arnold renderer (the cpu version) and Adobe Photoshop 2020. On the side some other Adobe applications but that’s it. It’s purely for work and really I want quicker render times in cinema (through arnold) but without having to buy a new and expensive machine.

Any suggestions welcome.

P.s. I don’t really want anything too complicated, install the card and go, preferably without changing the power pack. Also i'm based in the uk so if you have a link to the product that would help.

Many Thanks!

 

[hifimac]

If you want to speed up Arnold, updating the CPU will get you farther than a GPU upgrade. I just installed a dual 6 core 3.33 in my 5,1 to squeak some more life out of it. Kits are about $150 on eBay and not that hard to do at all. Would make your machine more than double faster at CPU rendering.

As far as GPU’s go, a 580 may be the easiest plug and play and will get you to Mojave. A 5700xt would be a better choice for GPU rendering once Octane and Redshift have macOS Metal support, but I think you would have to have a 580 as a intermediary to get you to Catalina via Open Core.

Maybe someone with more experience with the 580 upgrades can recommend a specific model.

 

[iAssimilated]

I found the Vega 56 to be a huge upgrade over the 580 and it works quite well in Mojave. You can find some good deals on them on ebay if you don't mind a used card. That was the route I took a couple of years ago and it has been rock solid!

 

[StuAff]

An RX580 is an RX580 is an RX580. The only differences between the two Sapphire models mentioned, my Gigabyte Aorus card, and anyone else's are the onboard memory (4GB or 8GB), the port selection, the cooling solutions (some cards are 2.5 slots wide, most are two), and the level of overclock (which is marginal gains indeed, and I don't think makes any difference at all in the Mac OS because it's usually controlled by the vendor's GPU software). That's it. If you've got room for it in your MP, and it's powered correctly (you will need custom power cables, usually 2x mini 6 pin to 1x 8pin connection), it'll work. That simple. Only other question is do you want/need a Mac EFI for boot screens etc? If you do, you'll be spending rather more money with Marek in Poland here. If you can manage without the boot screens (and keep your current GPU for troubleshooting), than just buy a regular card and it'll work just as well.

+1 for looking at the processor upgrade first, and considering the Vega 56 (Marek does those, both flashing service and preflashed cards, as well).

 

[kohlson]

4 PCIe slots can be a lot, until they're not. Performance boot can come from a PCIe NVMe SSD, and perhaps a USB 3 card. If you're running a GPU that is wider than 2 slots, you're all out of slots.

Most reports here are the Vega 56 performs better than an RX580, and doesn't require the Pixlas mod. That is, plug it in, (you'll need a different power cable) and it just works.

If you have a 2010 model, updating the CPUs is very do-able if you're handy with tools. Google for the Mac Pro Technician Guide and read the section on replacing CPUs. And watch a YouTube video. The first time it took me about an hour because I went slowly and methodically, and kept finding more dust to clean. You can get X5690 CPUs which run a little faster than X5680s, which I have. There's lots written on all of this in the sticky at the top of the Mac Pro forum.

 

[MarkC426]

Hi all,

I’m upgrading my Mac Pro (mid 2010) 8 core (2 x 2.4 quad core intel xeon) to Mojave for work and I need some advice on a Metal compatible Graphics card for the upgrade.

Some threads I’ve seen talk about this card, a “AMD radeon rx 580 8gb” and others talk of this card, “Sapphire Nitro+ Special Edition RX 580”, and also this card “SAPPHIRE Radeon PULSE RX 580 8GB GDDR5 (is this the same as the first)”

So my question is what card do I upgrade to. The Mac I’m using is my work horse, which because of the current situation is needing an urgent power boost! I’m a cgi artist and image professional mainly using cinema 4d r21 with Arnold renderer (the cpu version) and Adobe Photoshop 2020. On the side some other Adobe applications but that’s it. It’s purely for work and really I want quicker render times in cinema (through arnold) but without having to buy a new and expensive machine.

Any suggestions welcome.

P.s. I don’t really want anything too complicated, install the card and go, preferably without changing the power pack. Also i'm based in the uk so if you have a link to the product that would help.

Many Thanks!

It appears the only upgrade you are doing is adding a GPU and upgrading to Mojave.....?
Neither of which will reduce your render times if your using cpu Arnold.

RX580 pulse 8gb is a safe bet for GPU upgrade, the nitro cards are slightly thicker and block the next slot. You need an 8pin to dual mini 6 pin cable also.

What GPU do you currently have?

 

[Mylo3000]

Hi all,

Thanks so much for everyones contributions and useful answers to my post. Inevitably it’s created some more questions from me so here we go.

I’ll also answer the specific questions here as well.

Any thanks for taking the time out to help me with this.

The original aim for me was 2 fold, to upgrade my graphics card so I could move onto Mojave but at the same time I thought It would help my renders, reading your replies I don’t think this is the case however this is still an aim of mine.

It also seems that to make my rendering times shorter I should be updating the CPU. Is this easy to do? Whats the process of doing this? Am I going to f**k my Mac if I get it wrong?!

In terms of graphics card upgrades there seems to be three on the table. The radeon rx 580 8gb, the AMD Radeon RX Vega 56 and a AMD Radeon™ RX 5700 XT but the consensus seems to be if I have the space go for the Vega if not the RX 580 is this correct?

@hifimac - You mentioned the upgrade kit, do you have a link for this so I know what I’m looking for. Also you mentioned you installed a dual 6 core 3.33 kit into your Mac. Am I right in thinking this is essentially turning it into a 12 core?

@iAssimilated mentioned the Vega 56, is this the AMD Radeon RX Vega 56 is this better than the RX 580?

@StuAff you mentioned do I want to see/need a Mac EFI for boot screens. To be honest I don’t know what this means. Do I want this? I also think depending on cost I with do the CPU upgrade as well. If so does this influence the GPU decision?

@kohlson you mentioned a PCIe NVMe SSD, I don’t have this and wondering what it is, is it different to the usual ssd upgrade (which I have) and also you mentioned a specific CPU, a X5690 CPU could you send me a link to this.

@MarkC426 - “It appears the only upgrade you are doing is adding a GPU and upgrading to Mojave…..?” Yes you’re right that was the original plan but it now seems ill also upgrade the cpu to give me some more speed.
I currently have the original card it shipped with the ati radeon hd 5770.

Thanks again for all you help, looking forward so the answers.

 

[MarkC426]

1. A 5.1 macpro is the easiest cpu upgrade of the cMP's.
2. I am biased as I have the RX580, also it is officially supported by Apple. The 5700 needs Catalina, which is not supported on cMP. It will work with OpenCore (a hack to make it work), but I think if your machine is for production use you want to keep things simple.
You will have to upgrade your mac firmware though during the Mojave install...

MP5,1: What you have to do to upgrade to Mojave (BootROM upgrade instructions thread)

Please fully read this first post, you will probably find that you have one or more problems described into the various notes below. Mojave will only install if you have upgraded your BootROM to the current release and your Mac Pro have a Metal capable GPU*. If you are trying to install Mojave...

forums.macrumors.com

3. Generally you don't need boot screens. With your current GPU you can select which OS to boot from when your mac starts up (i.e. if you had another version os), this is not possible with the newer GPU's unless you get if flashed which costs.
4. Your current ssd, presumably sata bay, will be twice as fast on a pcie card (sata 3), but massively faster with an m2 nvme blade (latest ssd tech).

PCIe SSDs - NVMe & AHCI

This is a general info thread for blade SSDs that can be used in the Mac Pro. This is a WikiPost so anyone with the proper credentials may edit it. NVMe SSDs can be used as a boot drive in the MP5,1 and MP6,1 with the latest firmware installed (beginning with version 140.0.0.0.0 for MP5,1 and...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Mylo3000]

1. A 5.1 macpro is the easiest cpu upgrade of the cMP's.
2. I am biased as I have the RX580, also it is officially supported by Apple. The 5700 needs Catalina, which is not supported on cMP. It will work with OpenCore (a hack to make it work), but I think if your machine is for production use you want to keep things simple.
3. Generally you don't need boot screens. With your current GPU you can select which OS to boot from when your mac starts up (i.e. if you had another version os), this is not possible with the newer GPU's unless you get if flashed which costs.
4. Your current ssd, presumably sata bay, will be twice as fast on a pcie card (sata 3), but massively faster with an m2 nvme blade (latest ssd tech).

Great thanks for the answers, so should i keep the old GPU in the machine with the old OS (High Serra) and then install a new OS and GPU and keep both? My only problem there is I've all bays full with Hard drives.
As yes my current SSD is is on a SATA bay, but should i install this card to make it faster then?
[automerge]1590332766[/automerge]

Great thanks for the answers, so should i keep the old GPU in the machine with the old OS (High Serra) and then install a new OS and GPU and keep both? My only problem there is I've all bays full with Hard drives.
As yes my current SSD is is on a SATA bay, but should i install this card to make it faster then?

Also I've seen a Sapphire Radeon RX 580 NITRO+ Special Edition 8 GB do you know if this is better than the standard one? Thanks for all your help btw

 

[StuAff]

Hi all,

Thanks so much for everyones contributions and useful answers to my post. Inevitably it’s created some more questions from me so here we go.

I’ll also answer the specific questions here as well.

Any thanks for taking the time out to help me with this.

The original aim for me was 2 fold, to upgrade my graphics card so I could move onto Mojave but at the same time I thought It would help my renders, reading your replies I don’t think this is the case however this is still an aim of mine.

It also seems that to make my rendering times shorter I should be updating the CPU. Is this easy to do? Whats the process of doing this? Am I going to f**k my Mac if I get it wrong?!

In terms of graphics card upgrades there seems to be three on the table. The radeon rx 580 8gb, the AMD Radeon RX Vega 56 and a AMD Radeon™ RX 5700 XT but the consensus seems to be if I have the space go for the Vega if not the RX 580 is this correct?

@hifimac - You mentioned the upgrade kit, do you have a link for this so I know what I’m looking for. Also you mentioned you installed a dual 6 core 3.33 kit into your Mac. Am I right in thinking this is essentially turning it into a 12 core?

@iAssimilated mentioned the Vega 56, is this the AMD Radeon RX Vega 56 is this better than the RX 580?

@StuAff you mentioned do I want to see/need a Mac EFI for boot screens. To be honest I don’t know what this means. Do I want this? I also think depending on cost I with do the CPU upgrade as well. If so does this influence the GPU decision?

@kohlson you mentioned a PCIe NVMe SSD, I don’t have this and wondering what it is, is it different to the usual ssd upgrade (which I have) and also you mentioned a specific CPU, a X5690 CPU could you send me a link to this.

@MarkC426 - “It appears the only upgrade you are doing is adding a GPU and upgrading to Mojave…..?” Yes you’re right that was the original plan but it now seems ill also upgrade the cpu to give me some more speed.
I currently have the original card it shipped with the ati radeon hd 5770.

Thanks again for all you help, looking forward so the answers.

The HD5770, like all Apple-supplied cards, has Mac EFI firmware. You know the way the screen starts getting a signal right after the startup bong? That's what the card's EFI does. A lot of much newer cards, however, will work under the Mac OS. You can go to Scan/Overclockers/AN Other retailer, buy an off-the-shelf AMD card, like the RX 580 or the Vega 56, get the right power cables, plug it in and It Just Works, OS version permitting. When the GPU drivers in the OS load, they see the card and give it a video signal. Full acceleration, all the resolutions, etc. However, what the off-the-shelf cards cannot give you is that initial signal right after the bong, because their firmware is designed to work with regular PCs not Apple systems. You cannot see the boot picker screen (what you get when you hold option right after the bong) or do anything that needs user input before the OS loads so if, for example, your startup disk got corrupted, you wouldn't be able to select another drive to do repairs & recovery unless you had replaced the GPU with your old 5770/another Apple card. In my case, I have Windows 10 on an SSD. In order to boot into it, I'd have to boot into the Mac OS, select the Windows drive in the startup disk panel, reboot, and then have to select the Mac drive in the Windows control panel to get back to Mac next time…whereas, with a Mac EFI card, I can just boot or restart the machine, holding down the option key, select Windows…done.

You have three options:
1. Just use the RX 580/Vega 56/whatever you buy, and keep the HD 5770 on a shelf somewhere if you need it. Screen will stay black until the drivers load, but you'll still be able to access the recovery partition.
2. Buy an Mac-modified card from Marek at the link I posted, and have the boot screens etc.
3. As @MarkC426 has already mentioned, use OpenCore

There's a lot of useful stuff on this here forum and elsewhere, just take your time and do your research. An excellent primer here:

The Definitive Classic Mac Pro (2006-2012) Upgrade Guide

The largest/most-complete guide to all possible classic Mac Pro upgrades covering OS, Firmware, GPU, CPU, Storage, USB, THunderbolt and Network upgrades.

blog.greggant.com

 

[MarkC426]

Whichever GPU you go for, it will need the two 6 pin connectors to power it. So you can't keep the 5770 in there, but keep it as a back-up as it will give you boot screen (as mentioned above by StuAff).
I would personally keep HS and put Mojave on a new drive.
As with everything it depends how much you want to spend.
I would have a read through the wiki pages in the macpro section.

I think as a starting point I would upgrade the CPU's first, as you want quicker rendering.

 

[kohlson]

you mentioned a PCIe NVMe SSD, I don’t have this and wondering what it is, is it different to the usual ssd upgrade (which I have) and also you mentioned a specific CPU, a X5690 CPU could you send me a link to this.

Here's the TL;DR on NVMe SSD: 1500 - 5000+ Mbytes/sec.
Here's the TL;DR on X5690: Arguably - and I choose that word specifically - the fastest CPU for your cMP.

Another way to make a small speed improvement is using only 3 RAM slots.

But here's the thing: this system is way past its shelf life, and there's only 2 ways to enjoy these benefits.
- Have it done for you.
- Do it yourself. Note that the roads to faster performance is filled with potholes, so best to know what you're doing. Fortunately, all the information you need is gathered in one place - the stickies at the top of the Mac Pro forum!

The thing to know is what improvements will help your workflow. Putting in a faster processor for a workflow that wants to utilize more GPU won't do you much good. Putting in a faster disk, ...

 

[vel0city]

I work with the same software as you, OP. The problem with your requirements is that Arnold likes lots of CPU cores, but Photoshop likes single core speeds and won't take advantage of multi cores. Adding more CPU cores will make Arnold render appreciably faster - you can actually see the additional buckets when they're rendering which is a satisfying return on your investment, but you won't see much if any improvement in Photoshop.

Sad to say but I've done pretty much every upgrade possible on the 2009/2010 cheesegrater, and nothing gave me the kind of boost in Photoshop performance that I wanted. In contrast, an even modestly specced iMac will spank the life out of the cheesegrater for Photoshop.

Like others have said though, these machines are prehistoric now and way past their best. Another option would be to save the money and aggro on upgrades (in my opinion upgrading the CPU is gnarly and not something I'd ever ever want to do again) and use a render farm for outputting from Arnold. I do this now and MUCH prefer it compared to the noise/heat and locking up my CPUs when Arnonld is doing its thing. Do your lookdev/styleframes and render out a decent quality still on the Mac, then upload the final for a cloud render.

 

[Mylo3000]

Thanks for all your replies on this. I'm still completely unable to make a decision! I'm hoping someone can guide me/tell me what to do. As a side note I've already added a ssd and more ram (48gb).
@vel0city thanks for your feedback, really useful. Yeah i've noticed the same with Photoshop but currently I'm not in the position to buy a new mac so I'm trying to sort this one out for now, i'll be honest I'm toying with a PC for my 3D work next......

So here's my plan, I haven't got a huge budget so I'm trying to do the best i can with the cash i have!
1) I'm 100% sure that I will update the cpus, i'll try and do it with the 3.46 x5690 chips if i can get them, I'm having trouble trying to find them new at a good price if they're from china on ebay, is that ok? Does anyone have a place where I should look to buy them from?
My question is I've read stuff that need to be "delidded" is that right? and is it difficult to do?

2) Upgrade the GPU.
Here i have a problem, there's many different things I've read about the different Sapphire cards and it hasn't helped me.
The easy option seems to be to buy the Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580, plug it and go. Other than the adapter, I don't think i need to do any sort of modifications. Is that right?
Is that also the same with the Nitro+ version of the same card, is it worth getting this one over the above?

I also like the Vega 56/64, (i seen a couple second hand for £230) If this is an option should i go for this over the 580? Do i need to do any modifications to the power supply?Is that hard to do, is that a pixel mod or something? will it run in mojave?

My last question is I am missing a different card that is a better option?

3) Side note is I thought i'd buy a USB 3.0 card.
Is this one ok?

[Support UASP for Mac Pro] Inateck 4 Ports PCIe to USB 3.0 Card for Mac Pro - No Additional Power Connection Needed

[Support UASP for Mac Pro] Inateck 4 Ports PCIe to USB 3.0 Card for Mac Pro - No Additional Power Connection Needed

www.amazon.co.uk

I think thats all. This is driving me nuts!

 

[kohlson]

Since you already have an SSD, I suspect that moving to NVMe may not have the most benefit for the money. It might, but hard for me to know.

X5690 chips are about 2x the price of X5680s. Only you can say if that is worth it.

I think if you buy cpus from a reputable Ebay supplier, who backs them up with a good return policy, you'll be fine.
Note that only 2009 cMPs with dual CPU require delidding. All other models use "lidded" cpus.

GPUs. IMHO, there are two reasons to upgrade your gpu: it will improve your experience, or you just want one. I think the advice above indicates that your workflow relies mostly on cpu. Therefore it won't matter which Metal gpu you get. But I may have misunderstood something. In any event, for an RX580 or Vega 56, all you need is the new dual-mini-6-to-8-pin cable. For Vega 64, you'll need to read elsewhere on this forum for power requirements. This may require pixlas.

USB3 - I have Inateck Kt4004, and it is ok. It didn't cost much, but is probably at the low end on the performance side. I only use 1 port at a time, and even then not that often. But it makes a big difference in a HDD dock, and loading SDXC cards. Note that it also interferes sometimes with my Magic Mouse 2.

 

[MarkC426]

So here's my plan, I haven't got a huge budget so I'm trying to do the best i can with the cash i have!
1) I'm 100% sure that I will update the cpus, i'll try and do it with the 3.46 x5690 chips if i can get them, I'm having trouble trying to find them new at a good price if they're from china on ebay, is that ok? Does anyone have a place where I should look to buy them from?
My question is I've read stuff that need to be "delidded" is that right? and is it difficult to do?

One option which is even easier (but a bit more expensive), if you search on ebay for macpro cpu tray, there are sellers who sell a complete tray with whichever CPU's you want. So just swap out the old one.