Microsoft Cityman, decent alternative to the Note series?

[spinedoc77]

I wonder if Samsung is more scared than usual this year. Seems like phablets are coming out of everywhere and Samsung has seriously rested on its laurels this year with the Note 5.

Anyway, I know Microsoft talk won't gain much traction here, but this phone looks pretty awesome. 5.7" screen in a supposedly very compact, thin bezel and thin (7-8mm) phone. The front is all glass. You get the pedigree Lumia camera, which arguably are the best cameras on smartphones. 2560x1440. 3300mah battery for all you wounded by the 3000mah on the Note 5. USB type C. Qi wireless charging. IT HAS STYLUS SUPPORT, uses the same pen as the surface pro 3, iris scanner. Now for my favorite feature: a dock with USB and display ports which uses continuum, ie when you dock your phone it turns into a FULL windows computer, sick.

I know, I know, the app market sucks. But if MS can succeed in its plan to run Android/iOS apps on its hardware then it will a no brainer. Best camera in the biz, apps from ALL ecosystems, FULL windows PC in your hand, hardware specs to match anything else coming out.

http://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-cityman-and-talkman-flagship-full-details

Edit: Almost forgot, REMOVABLE BATTERY and MicroSD slot! Any Note converts here?

 

[spinedoc77]

Man that's pretty awesome looking, nice stealth look, no goofy chrome surround, perfect for business. If it's 7-8mm thin with a 3300mah removable battery it's going to be quite nice. They got the top and bottom bezels right also, although at the cost of software buttons I suppose. But fullscreen stuff that hides the soft buttons is going to look amazing.

PS: The 2nd pic is with the case on, the first pic is one where someone edited out the case.

 

[Michael Goff]

I don't see Samsung being afraid of Cityman, and I'll explain why tomorrow.

 

[spinedoc77]

I don't see Samsung being afraid of Cityman, and I'll explain why tomorrow.

Oh I agree, for this round at least. I really think continuum is going to be popular though, with the addition of all the other stuff like being able to run your android/iOS apps and be a full PC. I think there is a small subset of consumers who appreciate the Lumia cameras as well.

Microsoft was underestimated by everyone and came out with the surface pro 3. I have a feeling 2016 will be the year Windows catches on in the smartphone market. Especially as companies like Samsung do worse and worse as they have been doing by just releasing rehashed phones with glass covering. I just see Microsoft as truly trying to advance the computing revolution to the next step. I've avoided windows mobile mainly because I didn't like the Lumia hardware and need google voice integration very badly, but hopefully the reasons to avoid them are gone.

 

[mi7chy]

Only drawback to NTrig pen technology that Microsoft acquired is that it requires a battery source so currently it's too thick to stow away inside the phone. What I like about Wacom is that I can use my Galaxy Note pen which I always have with me on my Thinkpad Helix2.

 

[mclld]

I do not like the cluttered home screen on WP, same for iPhone or any Android phone with crap all over it. Now if I could get Nova on there and the handful of apps I use(including Google apps mostly) then hell yes. I'm not a typical app obsessed person, all I use is Google apps, Cloudmagic, Nova and Dogcatcher

 

[Michael Goff]

The biggest reason why I wouldn't advise anyone to buy Cityman is because I don't trust that the WP platform will be here in five years.

 

[mclld]

Like anyone will use the same phone for more than a year or two and MS now commented to openness so you will not have your data trapped or have lock in

 

[Michael Goff]

But if you go to a phone, buy apps, you want the platform to be there for a while. I'm not saying one phone for five years. I'm saying if I buy Android or iOS, it'll likely be here in five years. I don't know if Windows on the phone will be.

 

[mclld]

I dont buy into the app excuse about platform lock in. Big whoop if some drops even a couple hundred on apps, people make bigger purchases all the time.

 

[Michael Goff]

And yet people don't want to spend money on apps most of the time. So logic doesn't need to apply.

 

[mclld]

Doesnt matter anyway, MS wasted their opportunity in the mobile market and they will never stand a chance to overtake Android/ios or even come close

 

[spinedoc77]

Only drawback to NTrig pen technology that Microsoft acquired is that it requires a battery source so currently it's too thick to stow away inside the phone. What I like about Wacom is that I can use my Galaxy Note pen which I always have with me on my Thinkpad Helix2.

Completely agree, I would have MUCH more preferred Wacom. There is a rumored battery-less Ntrig pen technology ready to be released, but it's only a rumor and I haven't heard anything recently. It's interesting that MS was one of the first ones to make a phone with a pull out stylus and that they didn't embrace that technology.

 

[spinedoc77]

But if you go to a phone, buy apps, you want the platform to be there for a while. I'm not saying one phone for five years. I'm saying if I buy Android or iOS, it'll likely be here in five years. I don't know if Windows on the phone will be.

Yeah but you can buy android apps, for example, and use them on the WP phone. Or at least that's the plan. iOS also. I'm just guessing but I'll bet you can survive without buying any WP apps.

But I think they'll be around. Look at the SP3/S3 sales, they are definitely going to be around. If the WP phones can have the same success they will also. But I can certainly understand your hesitance since it's such a new strategy from MS.

 

[Michael Goff]

Yeah but you can buy android apps, for example, and use them on the WP phone. Or at least that's the plan. iOS also. I'm just guessing but I'll bet you can survive without buying any WP apps.

But I think they'll be around. Look at the SP3/S3 sales, they are definitely going to be around. If the WP phones can have the same success they will also. But I can certainly understand your hesitance since it's such a new strategy from MS.

You're going to have to take the iOS and Android files, recompile, and then run them I think. It isn't just running an Android or iOS app.

Also, a concern is that they've had two or three strategies in as many years.

 

[MRU]

^ given android compatibility was also going to be blackberry's saviour but it turns out it adds a lot of performance overhead, (making your shiny new device run the app with performance of a $80 cheap PAYG android) and often then there are still incompatibility issues, the android solution on blackberry really hasn't worked out to be a solution at all ... I honestly can't see it saving windows phone either now at this stage sadly.

Likewise given the 'grey cloud' overhanging Windows Phone it does feel like buying a new flagship device on the platform would be akin to boarding the 'Titanic' with the benefit of foresight (knowing somewhere on its voyage it's going to hit an iceberg sooner or later)...

I have supported windows Phone a good while now and have had a number of models and we still in the household have a 1530 & 930. That being said I couldn't in all consciousness justify buying a new flagship windows phone.

My criticisms of the app situation over last 5 years hasn't improved even with Nokia's takeover and I honestly can't see the BB style android solution in reality changing that. It feels like the dying breaths of a struggling platform.

So even if the Cityman turns out to be a nice device, it's one I foresee with a miserable future and a likelihood of an end of platform / support in the not too distant future. (I think windows phone will officially be killed this time next year)

 

[Savor]

Looks promising. I am not into Quad HD smartphones but if it can be docked toward a larger display makes more sense for 2K res on a smartphone.

Hardware and even pricing is where WP gets right. Removable battery and expandable memory, yes PLEASE!! Never omit them ever, Microsoft! More apps and decent price, and I will be a WP convert by that point. Although I will stick to Android too. Windows and Android can live together in harmony for me than say iOS + Microsoft or Google product. Microsoft & Google may not have the best relationship but they seem more contrasting and strangely complementary too.

 

[rhinosrcool]

Only drawback to NTrig pen technology that Microsoft acquired is that it requires a battery source so currently it's too thick to stow away inside the phone. What I like about Wacom is that I can use my Galaxy Note pen which I always have with me on my Thinkpad Helix2.

I agree. However, I am a bit stoked that there may be decent alternatives to Samsung's s pen (I am a big fan of the s pen). Actual use will help determine it's usefulness.

 

[spinedoc77]

^ given android compatibility was also going to be blackberry's saviour but it turns out it adds a lot of performance overhead, (making your shiny new device run the app with performance of a $80 cheap PAYG android) and often then there are still incompatibility issues, the android solution on blackberry really hasn't worked out to be a solution at all ... I honestly can't see it saving windows phone either now at this stage sadly.

Likewise given the 'grey cloud' overhanging Windows Phone it does feel like buying a new flagship device on the platform would be akin to boarding the 'Titanic' with the benefit of foresight (knowing somewhere on its voyage it's going to hit an iceberg sooner or later)...

I have supported windows Phone a good while now and have had a number of models and we still in the household have a 1530 & 930. That being said I couldn't in all consciousness justify buying a new flagship windows phone.

My criticisms of the app situation over last 5 years hasn't improved even with Nokia's takeover and I honestly can't see the BB style android solution in reality changing that. It feels like the dying breaths of a struggling platform.

So even if the Cityman turns out to be a nice device, it's one I foresee with a miserable future and a likelihood of an end of platform / support in the not too distant future. (I think windows phone will officially be killed this time next year)

My understanding is that there is very little overhead as it's not just emulating the app, but I'm not a developer so can't really say I understand. It's certainly a valid concern and we will have to wait and see how the apps truly run. Personally I don't think the app comparability is what will boost WP, I think its continuum. Having a FULL pc in your pocket is pretty powerful. I'm kind of dreaming here, but I can imagine docks would become ubiquitous and you can just plop your phone into a dock at the airport, on the plane, at work, at home, at Starbucks, etc. and have a FULL pc wherever you go without having to carry around anything but a smartphone. not only a full pc but YOUR pc with local and cloud information. To a degree it could be the end of the desktop other than specialized uses. Its also not hard to envision laptop and tablet docks for WP, also meaning the end of those. One device, nothing else.

Also the development unification is huge, all these devs who don't want to make WP apps now can simply make a windows program which will scale and work with any device/smartphone/tablet/desktop/laptop. Windows has way more users than any other ecosystem so the devs will not only be writing an app for WP users, but for the huge amount of Windows OS users worldwide.

We'll see I guess, but MS at least has balls, the only one with balls at this point IMO. I don't see them taking over the market, rather I see them getting enough of a slice of the pie to make money as they have done with the surface series.

 

[Breaking Good]

Do we have any idea on price? I think most Lumia phones are in the sub-US$200 range.

If this is $300 or less, I think I may buy one.

The number of apps has never concerned me. Voice, SMS text, e-mail, calendar and navigation and the ability to sync with MS Outlook are all I care about. I can use a Web browser for everything else.

I do not believe that any multi-national technology conglomerate like Microsoft or Sony will exit the mobile marketplace. I believe that mobile will drive the technology marketplace for the next several years and all the major companies will need to be there to stay relevant.

 

[Breaking Good]

My understanding is that there is very little overhead as it's not just emulating the app, but I'm not a developer so can't really say I understand. It's certainly a valid concern and we will have to wait and see how the apps truly run. Personally I don't think the app comparability is what will boost WP, I think its continuum. Having a FULL pc in your pocket is pretty powerful. I'm kind of dreaming here, but I can imagine docks would become ubiquitous and you can just plop your phone into a dock at the airport, on the plane, at work, at home, at Starbucks, etc. and have a FULL pc wherever you go without having to carry around anything but a smartphone. not only a full pc but YOUR pc with local and cloud information. To a degree it could be the end of the desktop other than specialized uses. Its also not hard to envision laptop and tablet docks for WP, also meaning the end of those. One device, nothing else.

Also the development unification is huge, all these devs who don't want to make WP apps now can simply make a windows program which will scale and work with any device/smartphone/tablet/desktop/laptop. Windows has way more users than any other ecosystem so the devs will not only be writing an app for WP users, but for the huge amount of Windows OS users worldwide.

We'll see I guess, but MS at least has balls, the only one with balls at this point IMO. I don't see them taking over the market, rather I see them getting enough of a slice of the pie to make money as they have done with the surface series.

Well said, spinedoc77.

It use to be that software would drive hardware purchases. The way I see Microsoft trying to move is that the customer decides the screen size (phone, tablet, laptop, desktop or television) and the software scales to the hardware.

Microsoft's problem was that in their hubris they tried to force a touch-based UI onto their customer base that didn't want it yet. It seems like they may have finally gotten the message with Windows 10.

The next step will be to eliminate the screen all together and directly project an image onto your retina. At that point we will truly start seeing wearable tech. But I believe the tech is still a number of years off.

 

[MRU]

Do we have any idea on price? I think most Lumia phones are in the sub-US$200 range.
.

No their flagships are same price as everyone else's flagship devices. Expect the smaller 950 for $500+ and the 950XL for $600+

 

[Breaking Good]

No their flagships are same price as everyone else's flagship devices. Expect the smaller 950 for $500+ and the 950XL for $600+

That's unfortunate. I just don't think they will be able to sell many at that price point.

At that price point they will be selling head to head with Apple and Samsung. They will have a very difficult time convincing people to a Windows Phone over iOS or TouchWiz/Android.

As discussed before, the smartphone market is just too crowded now for anyone to break-out.

 

[WrenFGun]

That's unfortunate. I just don't think they will be able to sell many at that price point.

At that price point they will be selling head to head with Apple and Samsung. They will have a very difficult time convincing people to a Windows Phone over iOS or TouchWiz/Android.

As discussed before, the smartphone market is just too crowded now for anyone to break-out.

I've said this in a few different places, but generally, Windows Phones are great. They allow you to directly remove carrier bloat (probably because most of the carriers don't care much at this point because they don't sell), the camera is really, really fantastic, the integrated services offered are quite good (onedrive, onenote) and they do allow you to access icloud and gmail services pretty easily via email and calendar especially.

The problem for me is actually consuming media. If you don't own an xbox, there's no real great way to purchase media and consume it on your television. Whether it be with Google Movies or iTunes, both of those come with a box to work on your TV. It's just a huge selling point to me [and frankly, having chromecast access is just enormous with both devices.]

 

[saintforlife]

I wonder if Samsung is more scared than usual this year. Seems like phablets are coming out of everywhere and Samsung has seriously rested on its laurels this year with the Note 5.

Anyway, I know Microsoft talk won't gain much traction here, but this phone looks pretty awesome. 5.7" screen in a supposedly very compact, thin bezel and thin (7-8mm) phone. The front is all glass. You get the pedigree Lumia camera, which arguably are the best cameras on smartphones. 2560x1440. 3300mah battery for all you wounded by the 3000mah on the Note 5. USB type C. Qi wireless charging. IT HAS STYLUS SUPPORT, uses the same pen as the surface pro 3, iris scanner. Now for my favorite feature: a dock with USB and display ports which uses continuum, ie when you dock your phone it turns into a FULL windows computer, sick.

I know, I know, the app market sucks. But if MS can succeed in its plan to run Android/iOS apps on its hardware then it will a no brainer. Best camera in the biz, apps from ALL ecosystems, FULL windows PC in your hand, hardware specs to match anything else coming out.

http://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-cityman-and-talkman-flagship-full-details

Edit: Almost forgot, REMOVABLE BATTERY and MicroSD slot! Any Note converts here?

Does it support continuum? Can it used as a PC replacement? If not, Windows Phones don't hold any interest for me.