Microsoft, Creativity, and Innovation

[dsnort]

I thought this might be a fun thread, ( thought i might get banned for it too!)
With MS getting set to enter portable digital media device market, I wondered, why does MS feel compelled to squash those that create and innovate? That leads to a second question, has MS ever came out with something that was completely new and innovative on their own? If you can think of some thing that MS has innovated, post it here. If you disagree with something someone else posted, provide evidence.
Good luck, and let the fur fly!

 

[Shadow]

I thought this might be a fun thread, ( thought i might get banned for it too!)
With MS getting set to enter portable digital media device market, I wondered, why does MS feel compelled to squash those that create and innovate? That leads to a second question, has MS ever came out with something that completely new and innovative on their own? If you can think of some thing that MS has innovated, post it here. If you disagree with something someone else posted, provide evidence.
Good luck, and let the fur fly!

Microsoft Bob comes to mind...

 

[IJ Reilly]

For many years I maintained a web site that included a "Microsoft Innovations" page. (No, it wasn't blank.) It became quite a compendium of ideas that Microsoft had borrowed or stolen from others over the years, and precious few that they'd come up with on their own.

Microsoft is not an innovative company, at least not in the way we generally think of high technology companies being innovative. In their heart of hearts, I doubt many at Microsoft even believe this to be one of the company's goals.

 

[j26]

For many years I maintained a web site that included a "Microsoft Innovations" page. (No, it wasn't blank.) It became quite a compendium of ideas that Microsoft had borrowed or stolen from others over the years, and precious few that they'd come up with on their own.

Microsoft is not an innovative company, at least not in the way we generally think of high technology companies being innovative. In their heart of hearts, I doubt many at Microsoft even believe this to be one of the company's goals.

Is that site still going - I'd like to have a look if it's still there.

 

[dsnort]

Well, nobody has come up with anything so far, except for MS Bob, of course! ( And how do we live without him!!!???)
I'll donate something. I don't really think it was an innovation, more of an extension of what they were already doing, but I think Windows 95 was a giant step forward in the GUI. Of course, I wasn't keeping up with Macs at the time and have no idea what they had to offer, but I remember the excitement around Win 95.

 

[gauchogolfer]

Well done MS.

 

[xPismo]

Win95 was a more advanced copy of MacOS. I was rather impressed with how easy it was for me to use since I was a Mac only user at the time. It felt, just - i donno - somehow fammiliar.

Well done MS.

Yeah, but they made it worse with the Mac icon replacement. Uugh. M$ office reminding you all the time that you were on a mac using the most bloated peice of officeware available.

This might not really fit the thread but have you seen the M$ redesigns the iPod packaging video?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EUXnJraKM3k&search=microsoft the ipod

Kinda says a lot about how consumers view the M$ elephant. Like Bill says in Pirates of Silicon Valley, "It doesnt have to be good".

 

[IJ Reilly]

Is that site still going - I'd like to have a look if it's still there.

Long gone, sorry. But I still do have the information, which is 7-8 years old now unfortunately. Here's the section on products with the Microsoft name on them which were developed by others.

Close Combat
Popular game purchased from Atomic Games.

Flight Simulator
Purchased from the Bruce Artwick Organization.

FrontPage
Microsoft's HTML editor was purchased from Vermeer Technologies in 1996.

FoxPro
This database application came along with Microsoft's purchase of Fox Software in 1986.

Internet Explorer
Desperate to play catch-up in the fast-moving Internet world, Microsoft licensed code from Spyglass, Inc. (one of the two licensees of the original Mosaic code base) in 1995, and called it MSIE. Microsoft then proceeded to distribute MSIE for free, denying Spyglass substantial royalties for their key contribution to the product.

MS-DOS
The original Microsoft cash cow, this CP/M clone (then called Q-DOS) was purchased from the Seattle Computer Company in 1981. Microsoft then proceeded to thwart Seattle Computer's license rights to the product. The tiny company sued Microsoft and prevailed in court.

Object Linking Environment (OLE)
Microsoft settled a suit with Wang Labs over patent infringement code portions of OLE, which is also the heart of Microsoft's ActiveX.

PowerPoint
This presentation software package was renamed and rebranded after Microsoft's purchase of Forethought, Inc., in 1987.

SQL Server 6.0
This important database product is based on code purchased from Sybase in 1988.

Visual Basic
Ruby, the foundation for Microsoft's highly important Visual Basic product, was purchased from Cooper Software in 1991.

Visual C++
Microsoft purchased the Lattice C code compiler, which became Visual C++, Microsoft's software development environment.

Visual SourceSafe
Purchased from OneTree Software. Shortly after OneTree's SourceSafe was released, Microsoft preannounced a similar application called Microsoft Delta, which failed to sell. Microsoft then purchased OneTree and renamed SourceSafe as Microsoft Visual SourceSafe.

Windows
Technologies used in Windows multitasking came to Microsoft with their purchase of Dynamical Systems in 1986. Portions of the interface were licensed from Apple Computer, also in 1986.

Xenix
Microsoft's version of Unix was actually written under contract by the Santa Cruz Operation (SCO).

 

[dsnort]

This might not really fit the thread but have you seen the M$ redesigns the iPod packaging video?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EUXnJraKM3k&search=microsoft the ipod

Kinda says a lot about how consumers view the M$ elephant. Like Bill says in Pirates of Silicon Valley, "It doesnt have to be good".

OMG Thats hilarious

 

[HGW]

not an invention of m$ but they have been the main people pushing forward online games with xbox live and direct x

and they didnt copy apple either

 

[dsnort]

not an invention of m$ but they have been the main people pushing forward online games with xbox live and direct x

Hmmm. That could be. My sole exposure to gaming consoles is buying games for my 8 year olds PS2. ( And yes, he'll probably get an xBox for Xmas)

and they didnt copy apple either

To be clear, I never meant to insinuate that MS steals all their ideas from Apple. (Evidently, they are an equal opportunity "borrower" )

 

[RacerX]

While not completely innovative, Microsoft did show how a GUI could change the way people worked with spreadsheets when they made Excel for the first Macintosh.

Of course the Excel deal had strings attached... like getting Apple to agree to them using Apple code and ideas for making a GUI shell (called Windows) for the DOS version of Excel that came out later. While Apple mistakenly thought the agreement was Excel specific, it was actually referring to Windows and allowed Microsoft to continue to use what Apple agreed to in all subsequent versions... which was why Apple lost the copyright case against Microsoft over the release of Windows 3.0 (Apple didn't seem to have very good legal counsel back around 1983 judging from that agreement).

Still... Excel was the first app that showed that the Mac wasn't just an expensive toy. It proved to be nearly as helpful to the Macintosh as VisiCalc was to the Apple II*.




* While Excel was very helpful to the Macintosh, it was the perfect storm of PageMaker, Postscript and the LaserWriter that secured the Macintosh's place in the world back in those early years.

 

[Xander562]

The thing we have to remember is that Microsoft doesnt make computers, just software, and a lot of the innovations that Apple comes up with are hardware-wise based. I'm not making any claims that if Microsoft DID make hardware that it would be new and innovative, but they are missing out on that entire category.

 

[Dane D.]

Nope, can't think of one innovation from MS. Although they have contributed to the raise of IT departments. I know companies have had IT departments but the number of people has had to increase dramatically in the last 25 years thanks to them.

I can add to IJ Reilly and his list of purchased software. Back in the mid-90's, I played a Golf game called Links Pro, great game but then MS purchased the company and released, Links LS 2000. Still a decent game but was sad to see another good company disappear. Speaking of games, didn't MS buy the makers of Halo? I seem to remember that this game was going to the Mac first, but then disappeared and went to xBox. Don't remember the name of the company.

 

[dornoforpyros]

Of course they invented stuff. Blue Screen of Death anybody?

 

[XNine]

Speaking of games, didn't MS buy the makers of Halo? I seem to remember that this game was going to the Mac first, but then disappeared and went to xBox. Don't remember the name of the company.

Bungie. And you are correct. Halo was to be released as a Mac game, then disappeared and suddenly reappeared funded (and purchased by MS). Had Halo been released first on the Mac, I think the tables on gmaing would have been turned a little to the right...

 

[dsnort]

Wow, a post exploring M$'s crativity and innovation has come up fairly empty! Even the M$ trolls fear to tread here!

 

[dsnort]

Well done MS.

Geez, I hated that thing. almost lost a comp to shotgun blast over that!

 

[Timepass]

Bungie. And you are correct. Halo was to be released as a Mac game, then disappeared and suddenly reappeared funded (and purchased by MS). Had Halo been released first on the Mac, I think the tables on gmaing would have been turned a little to the right...

I hightly doute that. From what I heard and read M$ change halo a lot from what Bungie orginally was working on. The one that would of come out for the mac would not of had the ablity to do what made halo great. It would of just been another FPS out there on computers and on top of that on a very limited plateform. And halo was never even the best FPS on computer with multiplayer.
What made halo so great was that it was the first FPS on a consele and it work really well plus it multiplayer was 2nd to none for that. It was the first one where you could get 16 people playing at one time and that is what made the game what it was.
If it came out on the mac it just would not messure up to games like counter strick and what not. Halo computer online part just is not that great and not many people talk about it. There are a long list of games that people talk about and play on line that are FPS.

I hate to say it but if it came out on the mac it would of more than likely been a failed game for a long list of reason. one of the largests is simple fact iwas on the mac only. At the time it would of been less than 5% market share total. And the people who play halo on computers would of been even less. what made halo so big was the Xbox and the market it was in.

 

[RacerX]

I hightly doute that...

Given your track record on things like this... pointing out the flaws in your statement would just be tiresome.

My only question is whether you actually believe what you say or if you think you can just BS without anyone questioning you.

 

[dsnort]

I hightly doute that. From what I heard and read M$ change halo a lot from what Bungie orginally was working on. The one that would of come out for the mac would not of had the ablity to do what made halo great. It would of just been another FPS out there on computers and on top of that on a very limited plateform. And halo was never even the best FPS on computer with multiplayer.
What made halo so great was that it was the first FPS on a consele and it work really well plus it multiplayer was 2nd to none for that. It was the first one where you could get 16 people playing at one time and that is what made the game what it was.
If it came out on the mac it just would not messure up to games like counter strick and what not. Halo computer online part just is not that great and not many people talk about it. There are a long list of games that people talk about and play on line that are FPS.

I hate to say it but if it came out on the mac it would of more than likely been a failed game for a long list of reason. one of the largests is simple fact iwas on the mac only. At the time it would of been less than 5% market share total. And the people who play halo on computers would of been even less. what made halo so big was the Xbox and the market it was in.

I'm sorry if this is off topic, but I have no idea what in the hell you are talking about Timepass. I am sure you have a point to make, but whatever it is, it is lost in a morass of poor spelling, missing punctuation, and poor gramar. If english is not your native language, maybe you should see if there is a copy of this forum in your native language. ( And my native language, at this point, is early american drunk as a skunk!)

 

[jhu]

innovation itself doesn't come about out of nowhere since someone who doesn't have the correct knowledge base wouldn't even come up with a solution in a given area (eg intel probably won't come up with a cure for cancer). however, once a certain knowledge base is achieved, some innovations almost come naturally. for example, hydroelectric dam = falling water + spinning turbines. innovative, right? but the knowledge base required for us to be able to understand and build a hydorelectric dam was built up over many centuries: the wheel, gravity, electricity, concrete, mechanical engineering, etc.

now the question of innovation with regards to microsoft is a rather loaded one, especially on a board such as this one. innovation takes many forms, but people here mostly talk about the superficial user interface similarities between the company's respective operating systems. although this makes sense since this is the part that most people interact with, both companies are much more than just their operating systems. and even within the operating systems themselves, there are innovations that are occurring that the average computer user isn't aware or doesn't care about. on the other hand, at least portions of the mac os innovations can be seen due to the kernel and utilities being open source.

but i digress. a better place to ask such a question would be over at arstechnica or anandtech.

 

[dsnort]

innovation itself doesn't come about out of nowhere since someone who doesn't have the correct knowledge base wouldn't even come up with a solution in a given area (eg intel probably won't come up with a cure for cancer). however, once a certain knowledge base is achieved, some innovations almost come naturally. for example, hydroelectric dam = falling water + spinning turbines. innovative, right? but the knowledge base required for us to be able to understand and build a hydorelectric dam was built up over many centuries: the wheel, gravity, electricity, concrete, mechanical engineering, etc.

now the question of innovation with regards to microsoft is a rather loaded one, especially on a board such as this one. innovation takes many forms, but people here mostly talk about the superficial user interface similarities between the company's respective operating systems. although this makes sense since this is the part that most people interact with, both companies are much more than just their operating systems. and even within the operating systems themselves, there are innovations that are occurring that the average computer user isn't aware or doesn't care about. on the other hand, at least portions of the mac os innovations can be seen due to the kernel and utilities being open source.

but i digress. a better place to ask such a question would be over at arstechnica or anandtech.

Uhh, say whut???

 

[jhu]

hmm... your question was whether microsoft has ever come up with anything "completely new and innovative." i would argue that there is no such thing as "completely new and innovative" because all innovations have their foundations in prior innovations.

 

[JFreak]

Microsoft and innovation do not sound good together. Microsoft is great in marketing products and packaging other companies' work as their own. That's what they do, and they excel at it. Nobody else comes even close.

But what is it that Microsoft really innovates? Nothing. They do very little in-house research and developement, if you don't count the people Microsoft has bought with the aquired products. Sure, they seem to find good companies to be bought, but I would not call that innovation.