MP 1,1-5,1 mid 2012/12 core/128 GB DDR3 vs M1 Max Mac Studio 10-core CPU/32-core GPU/64 GB Unified

[artbyroyal]

I am a photographer using a mid 2012 (Cheese Grater) 12-core with 128 GB DDR3. I am wondering about whether or not a M1 Max, Mac Studio with 10-core CPU / 32-core GPU and 64GB of Unified RAM, would, in real world usage, actually be faster and speed up my work flow insofar as processing large multi layered (100+) PhotoShop PSB files as well as working in Lightroom Classic?

I ask because I am being forced to finally move on from my "cheese grater" due to Apple no longer supporting it as well as their no longer supporting OS Mojave (the last version of the macOS that the mid 2012 MacPro can really run efficiently. So too the fact that Adobe is no longer offering up-grades to PS & LR running on that Mojave.

Any advice?

 

[edubfromktown]

I'd say it will definitely be faster on a Mac Studio. Not sure what apps you are running.

Even between M1 Mini 1st gen with 16 GB of RAM and base model Studio Max 32 GB RAM / 512 GB storage it is quite noticable when I'm cruising around in Adobe Lightroom Classic among my 20k + photo library and doing other Docker development stuff.

 

[ArkSingularity]

RAM is one of those things you won't benefit much from unless you actually need the RAM. If the programs you are running aren't allocating enough data to make use of 128GB, there is virtually no benefit to having the extra RAM. (64GB is already very plentiful for the vast majority of applications).

I'd definitely get the Mac Studio, without doubt. The CPU will be significantly faster on the M1 Max, and it will overall be a faster (and more future proof) system for what you're doing.

 

[artbyroyal]

I'd say it will definitely be faster on a Mac Studio. Not sure what apps you are running.

Even between M1 Mini 1st gen with 16 GB of RAM and base model Studio Max 32 GB RAM / 512 GB storage it is quite noticable when I'm cruising around in Adobe Lightroom Classic among my 20k + photo library and doing other Docker development stuff.

Thank you I appreciate the input.

 

[artbyroyal]

RAM is one of those things you won't benefit much from unless you actually need the RAM. If the programs you are running aren't allocating enough data to make use of 128GB, there is virtually no benefit to having the extra RAM. (64GB is already very plentiful for the vast majority of applications).

I'd definitely get the Mac Studio, without doubt. The CPU will be significantly faster on the M1 Max, and it will overall be a faster (and more future proof) system for what you're doing.

I sincerely appreciate the input.

 

[spacedcadet]

The OP's use case very much needs lots of RAM in my opinion. Worth checking on https://macperformanceguide.com for when Lloyd gets his MacStudio to test. His results on the M1 MacBook suggest it will be beast.
PS. Go check the Open Core thread for getting your 2012 onto Big Sur or Monterey to continue using Adobe apps.

 

[artbyroyal]

I'd say it will definitely be faster on a Mac Studio. Not sure what apps you are running.

Even between M1 Mini 1st gen with 16 GB of RAM and base model Studio Max 32 GB RAM / 512 GB storage it is quite noticable when I'm cruising around in Adobe Lightroom Classic among my 20k + photo library and doing other Docker development stuff.

The OP's use case very much needs lots of RAM in my opinion. Worth checking on https://macperformanceguide.com for when Lloyd gets his MacStudio to test. His results on the M1 MacBook suggest it will be beast.
PS. Go check the Open Core thread for getting your 2012 onto Big Sur or Monterey to continue using Adobe apps.

The OP's use case very much needs lots of RAM in my opinion. Worth checking on https://macperformanceguide.com for when Lloyd gets his MacStudio to test. His results on the M1 MacBook suggest it will be beast.
PS. Go check the Open Core thread for getting your 2012 onto Big Sur or Monterey to continue using Adobe apps.

Yes, I think that working with a great many layers if Photoshop is very RAM intensive. I remember when I upgraded my mid-2012 MacPro to a dual 6-core 3.46 GHz Intel Xeon configuration by doubling the RAM to 128 GB it was definitely faster, but that was 5 years ago and a lot has changed in the world of computers since then.

Also, as I understand it, the physical architecture (?) of this older MacPro of mine is no longer compatible with the latest versions of the macOS that you've mentioned,

 

[spacedcadet]

Yes, I think that working with a great many layers if Photoshop is very RAM intensive. I remember when I upgraded my mid-2012 MacPro to a dual 6-core 3.46 GHz Intel Xeon configuration by doubling the RAM to 128 GB it was definitely faster, but that was 5 years ago and a lot has changed in the world of computers since then.

Also, as I understand it, the physical architecture (?) of this older MacPro of mine is no longer compatible with the latest versions of the macOS that you've mentioned,

Technically the 5,1 (2010 and 20112) Mac Pros are unsupported and will only go as far as Mojave, but they can run Big Sur and Monterey quite happily via the excellent work of the Open Core community. I still use my 2010 for commercial work and needed to do this update in order to run the latest versions of Creative Suite (inlcuding Lightroom and Photoshop). It's a relatively straightforward process if you have a few spare disks to install things on (and a backup!) and follow the instructions. I'd recommend reading the 1st post/introduction on this thread to get an idea of how it works.
This should give me another year minimum if needed while I assess whether a MacStudio or the yet to be released MacPro will be my next Mac.

OpenCore on the Mac Pro

This guide explains how to use the excellent OpenCore boot loader to install, run, and update the latest version of macOS on the MacPro5,1, resulting in a clean, unaltered operating system just like on a supported Mac.

forums.macrumors.com

 

[krakman]

As mentioned above you could give OpenCore a go. I'm running the latest Monterey with Photoshop and Lightroom on my old 2009 4.1 Mac pro.

Opencore legacy patcher is the easiest method: https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/

 

[ddhhddhh2]

Also, as I understand it, the physical architecture (?) of this older MacPro of mine is no longer compatible with the latest versions of the macOS that you've mentioned,

Well, "officially", it's true that cMP is not compatible with the new macOS, but with the community's efforts, it's actually still working well.

For sure, M1 Mac Studio will be faster. For me, cMP is still working well and I'm happy with the speed after several upgrades, so I don't plan to 'move' to M1 platform yet, especially since I still have many doubts about ARM Windows.

My advice to you is that if the performance of cMP is still not enough after all the upgrades (better M.2 SSD, better graphics, dual X5690 CPUs) (100+ PS layers can be a huge job), then don't hesitate to buy M1 Mac Studio.

If it's just the OS support policy that prevents adobe from being upgraded and you have to always use the latest adobe, then maybe consider OpenCore and even get an extra bonus, the gift of 256G max RAM. At least it will save you money.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...n.2180095/page-53?post=28255048#post-28255048

 

[artbyroyal]

Technically the 5,1 (2010 and 20112) Mac Pros are unsupported and will only go as far as Mojave, but they can run Big Sur and Monterey quite happily via the excellent work of the Open Core community. I still use my 2010 for commercial work and needed to do this update in order to run the latest versions of Creative Suite (inlcuding Lightroom and Photoshop). It's a relatively straightforward process if you have a few spare disks to install things on (and a backup!) and follow the instructions. I'd recommend reading the 1st post/introduction on this thread to get an idea of how it works.
This should give me another year minimum if needed while I assess whether a MacStudio or the yet to be released MacPro will be my next Mac.

OpenCore on the Mac Pro

This guide explains how to use the excellent OpenCore boot loader to install, run, and update the latest version of macOS on the MacPro5,1, resulting in a clean, unaltered operating system just like on a supported Mac.

forums.macrumors.com

As you are successfully using an older Mac Pro for your work, it inspired me to try again, but sadly, I was still unable to load Open Core on my machine. My mistake might well have been that I was following a step by step YouTube tutorial that offered to help one accomplish the task of creating an Open Core loader by stating, "Walk-through for absolute Beginners to install macOS Monterey 12.2 on OLD MACs with just a USB drive! This tutorial guides you through all necessary steps even without any technical knowledge..."

Now, I'm not an "Absolute Beginner" (I've been using Mac's since the Quadra 950 days), opened many a Mac and replaced drives, memory, graphics cards, disc drives etcetera but neither am I a techie. When it comes to programming or making changes via Terminal... I'm a novice and probably overly cautious.

In any event after numerous hours and many days culminating in naught but frustration and failed attempts; I threw my hands up in defeat and ordered a Mac Studio (which is on back order so I'm not sure how soon I'll actually get it). So I still have my faithful old cheese grater for the time being and after a weeks respite working on my art, I'm tempted to try again, as I'd love for it to be running the latest OS and the latest versions of PS & LRC until it's time for it to go, but, that said, I'm very wary of turning it into a worthless brick. Any other thoughts would still be appreciated.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

As you are successfully using an older Mac Pro for your work, it inspired me to try again, but sadly, I was still unable to load Open Core on my machine. My mistake might well have been that I was following a step by step YouTube tutorial that offered to help one accomplish the task of creating an Open Core loader by stating, "Walk-through for absolute Beginners to install macOS Monterey 12.2 on OLD MACs with just a USB drive! This tutorial guides you through all necessary steps even without any technical knowledge..."

Now, I'm not an "Absolute Beginner" (I've been using Mac's since the Quadra 950 days), opened many a Mac and replaced drives, memory, graphics cards, disc drives etcetera but neither am I a techie. When it comes to programming or making changes via Terminal... I'm a novice and probably overly cautious.

In any event after numerous hours and many days culminating in naught but frustration and failed attempts; I threw my hands up in defeat and ordered a Mac Studio (which is on back order so I'm not sure how soon I'll actually get it). So I still have my faithful old cheese grater for the time being and after a weeks respite working on my art, I'm tempted to try again, as I'd love for it to be running the latest OS and the latest versions of PS & LRC until it's time for it to go, but, that said, I'm very wary of turning it into a worthless brick. Any other thoughts would still be appreciated.

The problem is you’ll get 10 people telling you how easy it is to get opencore working and it’s just a complex intricate pain. Not sure if they ever will get it to the point where it’s an installer with 1 button install. Until then, most people won’t touch it.

‘’furthermore, unless such a mythical installer came from a well vetted known open source provider, people that do commercial work can’t risk doing such a 1 click install because they have no idea if some malware Paula’s isn’t part of the package.

 

[artbyroyal]

The problem is you’ll get 10 people telling you how easy it is to get opencore working and it’s just a complex intricate pain. Not sure if they ever will get it to the point where it’s an installer with 1 button install. Until then, most people won’t touch it.

‘’furthermore, unless such a mythical installer came from a well vetted known open source provider, people that do commercial work can’t risk doing such a 1 click install because they have no idea if some malware Paula’s isn’t part of the package.

Thank you for this. You have done a great job of articulating some of my very real concerns. I have a tendency to believe the YouTuber that posted that is sincere and on the level (though I don't know how I could actually know that) but my own inability to replicate his results has not only been frustrating but cause for lingering concern. Through disabling the SIP while trying to load the Open Core was I exposing my computer to... etcetera. In the end I found myself feeling like a real luddite. I sincerely appreciate your feedback. Thanks again.

 

[EvilMonk]

I have a mbp m1 max 16” 32/32 1Tb and it runs circles around my 12 cores 96 Gb nvme ssd rx 580 2012 Mac Pro

 

[Stex]

The problem is you’ll get 10 people telling you how easy it is to get opencore working and it’s just a complex intricate pain.

can certainly be intricate, but likely just as much if not less as getting an 8k tv properly working on a 7,1

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

can certainly be intricate, but likely just as much if not less as getting an 8k tv properly working on a 7,1

Too true and touché! In many cases in life it boils down to “how bad do you want this, and how hard are you willing to work to get it”!

 

[Diablo360]

I made the switch from a mid 2010 3.46 12 core /128gb ram desktop to a 16” M1 Max (fully spec’d out except for ssd). The M1 laptop runs way faster and best of all, no heat and no noise!

 

[EvilMonk]

I made the switch from a mid 2010 3.46 12 core /128gb ram desktop to a 16” M1 Max (fully spec’d out except for ssd). The M1 laptop runs way faster and best of all, no heat and no noise!

Same for me and I have 0 regrets, it’s a beast… the GPU is faster rendering twice as fast as my 12 cores 2012 MP 96Gb nVME 1Tb SSD and RX 580

 

[spacedcadet]

As you are successfully using an older Mac Pro for your work, it inspired me to try again, but sadly, I was still unable to load Open Core on my machine. My mistake might well have been that I was following a step by step YouTube tutorial that offered to help one accomplish the task of creating an Open Core loader by stating, "Walk-through for absolute Beginners to install macOS Monterey 12.2 on OLD MACs with just a USB drive! This tutorial guides you through all necessary steps even without any technical knowledge..."

Now, I'm not an "Absolute Beginner" (I've been using Mac's since the Quadra 950 days), opened many a Mac and replaced drives, memory, graphics cards, disc drives etcetera but neither am I a techie. When it comes to programming or making changes via Terminal... I'm a novice and probably overly cautious.

In any event after numerous hours and many days culminating in naught but frustration and failed attempts; I threw my hands up in defeat and ordered a Mac Studio (which is on back order so I'm not sure how soon I'll actually get it). So I still have my faithful old cheese grater for the time being and after a weeks respite working on my art, I'm tempted to try again, as I'd love for it to be running the latest OS and the latest versions of PS & LRC until it's time for it to go, but, that said, I'm very wary of turning it into a worthless brick. Any other thoughts would still be appreciated.

Sorry to hear you haven't been able to get OC working. I totally understand your frustrations and concerns, particularly about ending up with a brick. There are a LOT of YouTubers piggy backing off the work of the OC developers, promising to make it super easy etc. Unfortunately it is very easy to go wrong by following them without understanding why. That's why it's recommended to read the Wiki post on MacRumors. I have to admit it took me a couple of attempts before getting it all working and I have stopped updating OC now as my machine is stable running Big Sur.

Monterey seems one step too modern for these machines and more problematical to install, although many have done so successfully.

I'm definitely not a techie by any means. This was certainly the most complicated thing I've done to my Mac.

I'm sure the MacStudio will wipe the floor with your old machine once it arrives anyway! Fingers crossed for a quick delivery. Sure I will be getting a new Mac of some kind once it's clear what the new Pros will be.

 

[macoso]

As you are successfully using an older Mac Pro for your work, it inspired me to try again, but sadly, I was still unable to load Open Core on my machine. My mistake might well have been that I was following a step by step YouTube tutorial that offered to help one accomplish the task of creating an Open Core loader by stating, "Walk-through for absolute Beginners to install macOS Monterey 12.2 on OLD MACs with just a USB drive! This tutorial guides you through all necessary steps even without any technical knowledge..."

Now, I'm not an "Absolute Beginner" (I've been using Mac's since the Quadra 950 days), opened many a Mac and replaced drives, memory, graphics cards, disc drives etcetera but neither am I a techie. When it comes to programming or making changes via Terminal... I'm a novice and probably overly cautious.

In any event after numerous hours and many days culminating in naught but frustration and failed attempts; I threw my hands up in defeat and ordered a Mac Studio (which is on back order so I'm not sure how soon I'll actually get it). So I still have my faithful old cheese grater for the time being and after a weeks respite working on my art, I'm tempted to try again, as I'd love for it to be running the latest OS and the latest versions of PS & LRC until it's time for it to go, but, that said, I'm very wary of turning it into a worthless brick. Any other thoughts would still be appreciated.

Have you tried to read this?

OpenCore Legacy Patcher

Experience macOS just like before

dortania.github.io

with OCLP I have successful installed Monterey 12.2.1 at the first attempt using an USB stick
I have also update to 12.3.1 without èrobòem using software update.

after I have installed OC 0.7.9 and works well without USB EFI boot.

The main thing to do is:...
During installation phase NEVER boot your mac without select the OCLP EFI in the USB... f you have nvidia graphic card like me you have to use the post install button. )this was the only issei... because before install Nvidia drivers My Mac pro was very slow... also do not forget to use 1080p resolution that is better for the boot screen

 

[Rocket5]

I am a photographer using a mid 2012 (Cheese Grater) 12-core with 128 GB DDR3. I am wondering about whether or not a M1 Max, Mac Studio with 10-core CPU / 32-core GPU and 64GB of Unified RAM, would, in real world usage, actually be faster and speed up my work flow insofar as processing large multi layered (100+) PhotoShop PSB files as well as working in Lightroom Classic?

I ask because I am being forced to finally move on from my "cheese grater" due to Apple no longer supporting it as well as their no longer supporting OS Mojave (the last version of the macOS that the mid 2012 MacPro can really run efficiently. So too the fact that Adobe is no longer offering up-grades to PS & LR running on that Mojave.

Any advice?

Hey ABR,

Great to see you’ve pushed your Mac to 128GB ram. Have you tried ditching Adobe completely and using Affinity Photo and Designer, I use both of these and have had no issues. More and more Graphic designers, Photographers and Game Developers are using Affinity products. Affinity Photo has batching processes as well. Currently 50% for all software. I love this software - runs super smooth ? No subscriptions either, one off payment. Mac Pro 5,1 are the best in my opinion. As a Game Developer I use Affinity and Blender, the only problem is when I obviously have way too much going on with 3d objects and background activity.

Anyways I hope I helped.

 

[Rocket5]

I just have to say I have been extremely happy ditching Adobe for Affinity. Even when I was studying using Adobe in class I would use Affinity at home. If you can find a way to cut your ties with Adobe it will save you a lot of headaches in the future. They’ve been throttling GPU’s and CPU’s for years. I say no more, NO MORE Adobe ?

 

[Sharky II]

For folk who have moved from 12 core 5,1 to the M1 Max and you say the M1 Max is faster - sure, but how much? Do you regret not getting the Ultra?

I am moving from a dual X5690 to either the M1 Max or Ultra Studio, and I'm a bit underwhelmed by Logic Pro benchmark increase from 5,1 to M1 Max - but I think that perhaps the test isn't very indicative of real world performance.

I'm curious to know if the 5,1 -> M1 Max is a stop gap for people who change machines every 2-3 years, or if it's a completely different ballpark that will last many years.

I want the Ultra, of course, but the price is a bit of a stretch.

 

[avro707]

The problem is you’ll get 10 people telling you how easy it is to get opencore working and it’s just a complex intricate pain. Not sure if they ever will get it to the point where it’s an installer with 1 button install. Until then, most people won’t touch it.

‘’furthermore, unless such a mythical installer came from a well vetted known open source provider, people that do commercial work can’t risk doing such a 1 click install because they have no idea if some malware Paula’s isn’t part of the package.

Once you get it going it runs fine, but when things go wrong it complicates everything. I had a good run with it.

With my powerful 2010 5,1 Mac now misbehaving (something hardware), I gave up and went MP 7,1.

I looked at the Studio and decided it wasn’t for me. I prefer the ability to upgrade.

This was a reluctant upgrade because my dual X5690 machine ran very fast. I’m crying a bit because that was also a pristine example, no scratches - looking brand new.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Once you get it going it runs fine, but when things go wrong it complicates everything. I had a good run with it.

With my powerful 2010 5,1 Mac now misbehaving (something hardware), I gave up and went MP 7,1.

I looked at the Studio and decided it wasn’t for me. I prefer the ability to upgrade.

This was a reluctant upgrade because my dual X5690 machine ran very fast. I’m crying a bit because that was also a pristine example, no scratches - looking brand new.

What did you do with your 5,1? Mine is in a box collecting dust. One of the problems with the 5,1 (and the 7,1) is there is no one for me to hand it down to. It's too much for the average grandma to deal with, and it would end up an IT project for me to constantly have to go and help maintain it (and I need another project like the Sahara needs more sand).

So oddly, if Apple actually makes a good slot based Mac Pro to replace the 7,1, I'll probably just box up the 7,1 too. I might sell it if I can still get a good price for it, but the odd need to run something very intel based might have me keeping it. Of course, if apple makes a new Mac Pro without slots or with slots but no graphics card options (I need something that can drive my 8k screen), then I hold on to the 7,1 for dear life as long as I can.