MP 1,1-5,1 Migrating Windows 10 from PC to NVMe on 5,1

[GoJohnGo]

I'm looking to migrate a PC Windows 10 installation to an NVMe drive (Samsung 970 Evo) on my 2010 5,1, and am looking for guidance on the best way to do it. Most of my searches just show how to install Windows, and the migration process in Windows doesn't seem as robust as Migration Assistant, so I'm thinking that cloning the drive would be a better approach. But going with the approach of just cloning the drive seems like it might cause chaos with drivers, and I'm not clear if Boot Camp will install over that. Then there's the whole Windows UEFI/Bootrom problem (which I'm still learning about) that I'd like to avoid.

I did try some experiments so far.
1. Booted the Mac from an existing Windows 10/Bootcamp SSD (used only for testing things out and not part of the ultimate installation) and ran Samsung Magician data transfer to clone that SSD to the NVMe drive (just to see if it would work). It ran without errors, but just hung at the transfer stage and never moved a byte.
2. Installed the NVMe drive in the PC and ran Samsung Magician data transfer to clone the HDD in the PC to the NVMe drive. That worked.
3. Moved the NVMe drive back to the Mac and option-booted. Interestingly, my Windows 10/Bootcamp SSD showed as "Windows" and the NVMe (now with the cloned PC drive) showed as "EFI Boot." After a couple of self-reboots, it booted okay. Some things (such as speakers) weren't working, but I expected that. I ran Bootcamp Setup.exe to install the Bootcamp drivers, which, after a reboot, got the speakers working.
I'm not yet clear why my Windows 10/Bootcamp SSD shows "Windows" and the PC clone shows "EFI Boot." Is that "EFI Boot" that's part of the PC clone potentially doing bad things to my NVRAM?

With all that said, what is the best/correct sequence to migrate a PC to a bootable NVMe on a Mac 5,1?

Fortunately, I can go back and start all over if needed.

 

[Macschrauber]

First, when tinkering with Uefi Windows should be to make a bootrom backup. If you catch certificates, you can go back with your backup.

The tool in my signature can make a backup and a lot of firmware health checks.

Don't boot Uefi Windows without OpenCore or RefindPlus protection in any way on a classic Mac Pro.

Efi Boot is the Windows bootloader what writes the certificates. Even if you boot into the bootloader and the Windows behind is not really starting you will get certificates. I once got some on a test scene when I _only_ had a Windows ESP on a disk. And no Windows OS even near the box.

The term ESP is E)fi S)ystem P)artition, the hidden / not mounted Fat partition what holds the bootloader.

I also have a bunch of ESP tools to identify, mount and modify (Windows) ESPs to not boot outside OpenCore. They are in the Dumper package as well.

 

[GoJohnGo]

Thanks for the explanation. So, if my Windows instance shows "EFI Boot" in the bootpicker, that is Windows UEFI and should not be used.
I confirmed using your tool that Windows Certificates were indeed installed and cleaned it up using my @tsialex clean BootROM.
Okay, so that's what NOT to do.

I'm still not clear why the disk I cloned from the PC has an EFI partition, and the SSD I created with Boot Camp does not. Perhaps I created that install from a DVD; I don't recall. But that tells me I can create a bootable drive without EFI. OpenCore has no advantage for my use case (it will be used almost exclusively as a Windows machine), so I'd like to avoid it if possible.

So, what is it that I should do? I'm thinking:
1. Download Windows 10 and burn onto a DVD.
2. Run Boot Camp from Monterey (my Mojave version doesn't work) to install a clean Windows 10 onto the NVMe drive.
3. Ensure it doesn't have an EFI partition and shows as "Windows" in Bootpicker.
4. Back up the PC drive (Windows backup or Macrium Reflect?).
5. Restore the PC drive backup to the clean Windows 10 Boot Camp install on the NVMe drive.

Is this a reasonable approach? Is there a better one?

 

[Macschrauber]

I'd simply use OpenCore Legacy Patcher to have one instance of OpenCore on one ESP.

Plug in your PC NVMe and boot MacOs. Cross fingers that your NVMe is Mac Pro compatible.

Use the "check esps for ms certificates" from my ESP Tools in the Dumper package. It asks to deactivate the Windows ESP. This renames bootx64.efi to bootx64.efioff in that ESP. Of course you can do that manually, too.

After that you can not boot this ESP directly without OpenCore. It is also not shown in the Apple boot picker.

This is no 100% solution, as Windows repairs and updates will eventually re-write bootx64.efi. But thats better than nothing.

I am just about releasing the next version of the "check esps for ms certificates" what has settings to live in the startup objects of MacOs to automatically check and disable Windows ESPs.

Bootcamp on classic Mac Pros is legacy = no certificates, but also no NVMe.

But, if you use a NVMe, this can only be UEFI. As NVMes don't work in legacy for Windows.

 

[GoJohnGo]

Yes, the NVMe is Mac Pro compatible. I have been using it for a while as my Mojave boot drive.

Ah, so to get NVMe boot in Windows, OpenCore is required?
But I could run without it if I used a SATA SSD instead?
Stability v. Speed, the eternal conundrum.

 

[Macschrauber]

Yes,
The most of us use OpenCore or RefindPlus.
We have to deal with that on a 10++ years old workstation…

 

[benmuetsch]

For safety and compatibility reasons I personally would run Windows on a classic Mac Pro only in legacy mode from SATA SSD.

a) no risk for ROM
b) bootable via MAC EFI bootmenu and/or OpenCore
c) negligible performance difference
d) may still use NVMe as data drives

 

[Macschrauber]

check out Windows Install: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-mode-in-cmp-with-boot-camp-assistant.2386309

This is really straightforward. Save the log file by the menu item of the tool - in case something dont works that helps to troubleshoot.