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MP 7,1 Minimum MP config that can be upgraded to the max?
- Thread starter Jethro!
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How far do you want to go ?
Do you want to install new CPUs yourself (not supported by Apple that you do that)
-> if not you need to buy the CPU in one go.
Do you really need 1.5 Tbyte RAM ?
-> if you do: you need to have one of the two top end CPUs
otherwise you'll be "limited" to 768 Gbyte of RAM
Do you want to continue to use the Apple RAM as you upgrade the total amount of RAM:
-> the lowest end CPU might have slower RAM (from what I remember: they always gave out fast RAM anyway)
-> not all mixing of RAM modules is supported. Easiest is to have 6 or 12 identical modules.
Otherwise:
- All MP7,1s have an identical motherboard, an identical power supply, an identical case, ...
- The internal "SSD" can nowadays be user replaced (non-trivial as you need to reinstall the firmware onto that storage using another mac to control the process) - But there's a caveat: the storage modules are not standard off the shelf SSDs: you can only obtain them from Apple.
- CPUs are tricky to install yourself and not intended by Apple you do it yourself (nor will they offer it AFAIK). Depending on what you have as options where you live: the sources to get these workstation class Intel CPUs might be quite limited (availability over time of rather "rare" and quite expensive CPUs is tricky at best).
- RAM is easy to install and readily available.
- PCIe cards obviously are easy as well. To get the most of the system you want an MPX module (you need it to make your system's TB3 ports into ports that can hook up a display - it's part of the TB3 spec that requires them to support displayport, but in order to do that only an MPX module has the needed hardware to hook it all up internally)
My suggestion:
- Get the CPU you need for the next 3 years from Apple (warranty). CPU upgrades might seem expensive, but replacing it with self-sourced ones is more expensive as you also get stuck with the old one and there's little to no markup compared to the Intel CPUs on the end-user market anyway.
- Get Applecare (it's relative to the cost of the machine quite cheap) - protect the investment
- Avoid the lowest end CPU - it's a shame to put that one in
- Get a one-step upgrade on the SSD: that way you get it to double its performance - but it can be done later as well if you don't mind wiping the disk in the process.
- RAM: use 3rd party RAM - much cheaper than Apple's - do keep the apple modules should the machine ever need service
- GPU: ... depends on your needs. No point in having these laying around at home unused either, so buy what you need.
Don't buy for a need that's long time away still. You might be very sorry when the Apple Silicon MP comes out and runs circles around your machine. You might feel in a few years like you would now if you still had a PowerPC mac.
Do you want to install new CPUs yourself (not supported by Apple that you do that)
-> if not you need to buy the CPU in one go.
Do you really need 1.5 Tbyte RAM ?
-> if you do: you need to have one of the two top end CPUs
otherwise you'll be "limited" to 768 Gbyte of RAM
Do you want to continue to use the Apple RAM as you upgrade the total amount of RAM:
-> the lowest end CPU might have slower RAM (from what I remember: they always gave out fast RAM anyway)
-> not all mixing of RAM modules is supported. Easiest is to have 6 or 12 identical modules.
Otherwise:
- All MP7,1s have an identical motherboard, an identical power supply, an identical case, ...
- The internal "SSD" can nowadays be user replaced (non-trivial as you need to reinstall the firmware onto that storage using another mac to control the process) - But there's a caveat: the storage modules are not standard off the shelf SSDs: you can only obtain them from Apple.
- CPUs are tricky to install yourself and not intended by Apple you do it yourself (nor will they offer it AFAIK). Depending on what you have as options where you live: the sources to get these workstation class Intel CPUs might be quite limited (availability over time of rather "rare" and quite expensive CPUs is tricky at best).
- RAM is easy to install and readily available.
- PCIe cards obviously are easy as well. To get the most of the system you want an MPX module (you need it to make your system's TB3 ports into ports that can hook up a display - it's part of the TB3 spec that requires them to support displayport, but in order to do that only an MPX module has the needed hardware to hook it all up internally)
My suggestion:
- Get the CPU you need for the next 3 years from Apple (warranty). CPU upgrades might seem expensive, but replacing it with self-sourced ones is more expensive as you also get stuck with the old one and there's little to no markup compared to the Intel CPUs on the end-user market anyway.
- Get Applecare (it's relative to the cost of the machine quite cheap) - protect the investment
- Avoid the lowest end CPU - it's a shame to put that one in
- Get a one-step upgrade on the SSD: that way you get it to double its performance - but it can be done later as well if you don't mind wiping the disk in the process.
- RAM: use 3rd party RAM - much cheaper than Apple's - do keep the apple modules should the machine ever need service
- GPU: ... depends on your needs. No point in having these laying around at home unused either, so buy what you need.
Don't buy for a need that's long time away still. You might be very sorry when the Apple Silicon MP comes out and runs circles around your machine. You might feel in a few years like you would now if you still had a PowerPC mac.
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Short answer is the most basic configuration. Everything can be upgraded later.
So I could buy the low-end, bare bones $6k MP and upgrade it myself to the max Apple currently offers?
Is that yes to buying the low-end, bare bones $6k MP and upgrading it myself to the max Apple currently offers?
In principle you can upgrade from the most basic MP7,1 to the most advanced.
BUT:
- for some parts it requires skills and potentially voiding the warranty (like for the CPU swaps), and/or
- availability of parts that might not be trivial to find in a few years (e.g. the internal "SSD" storage is only sourced from Apple, the CPU is not a very common product from Intel)
- some combinations are not possible (e.g. only 2 of the CPUs only support that whopping 1.5 Tbyte RAM maximum)
Hence: depending on how far you want to go, it might be smarter to buy some things now instead of waiting. And which you're comfortable with is your call to make.
From my viewpoint: the CPU is tricky to replace, I'd be very careful with that one unless you routinely do this with CPUs that are attached in this manner and are ready to potentially damage such extremely expensive components.
Also remember that anything you swap out might not be worth all that much on a second hand market. E.g.: I can't imagine the lowest end MPX GPU having much value on the second hand market: it's only useful in a MP7,1 and those all have at least one MPX GPU that's equal or better ... Same goes to a point for the CPU: that Intel productline is not a very commonly used one in the "PC" world: the lower end options might well be hard to find a buyer for.
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A maxed-out MP from Apple rings up at an absurd price tag of over $50,000. If I bought the upgraded parts myself (especially when the prices come down eventually) and hired someone to do the upgrades, there's no way it would cost remotely near $50k. Getting the best bang for the buck is the key here.
A significant part of that price is the 1.5 Tbyte of Apple RAM - few on this forum will buy any but the base amount of RAM from apple as it's very expensive compared to getting high quality RAM elsewhere.
Still I fear your premise itself is faulty.
Before things like the Apple storage modules, the Apple MPX modules or the Intel Xeon CPU come down in price you risk they stop getting manufactured first, preempting the price reduction at the source.
Moreover when you're looking at things well beyond the horizon where things can be predicted with any reliability, it becomes extremely risky to do investments that you count on to last beyond that horizon.
Speaking of that horizon: normally I'd agree to a 3 to 5 year horizon for expensive workstations and/or servers. But the MP7,1 is different as there's an announcement from Tim Cook that Apple is to replace the entire Intel based product line with Apple Silicon based machines in the next 2 years (back half a year ago already). So your horizon is short: we have no clue what the market will be in (less than) 2 years time. We have no reliable clue what the next machine will be, nor what we will want to have by then as even on the software side there's going to be a shake-up.
If I were you: buy for what you need in the foreseeable future, don't buy for what you might want to upgrade to further down the line. Anything that happens down the road: it can then only be a positive.
IMHO: "Getting the best bang for the buck is" waiting for the MP8,1 if you can. [We own 2 MP7,1s]
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I'd take my chances that an Intel-based machine will have available parts into the future over whatever proprietary thing Apple is coming up with next. Apple's sucky trend lately is to lock down all components and make nothing user-upgradable. I fear the next iteration of the MP will be next. I seriously doubt Jobs would have approved of this path. One of the main reasons I'm seriously considering moving to PC.
Not to hijack the tread but...
For a current PC, what is the minimum configuration you can order that could eventually be upgraded to the maximum?
For a current PC, what is the minimum configuration you can order that could eventually be upgraded to the maximum?
If the mp8,1 is locked down all soldered cpu and ram /gpu I'm getting a 2nd 7,1.
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The top end CPU for the Mac Pro runs for about 4,500$ USD by itself.
2019 Apple Mac Pro Memory Upgrades from OWC
Easily upgrade the memory of your 2019 Apple Mac Pro up to 1.5TB. OWC memory kits are 100% Apple compatible and backed by a lifetime OWC warranty.
Getting full 128 GB RAM slots for your system's RAM runs for about 12,300$ This is where the majority of your savings comes from in a custom build. Apple supplied RAM is way more expensive, but also is free to replace should it go bad. Apple is not going to replace a third party's faulty RAM. You'll need to weigh the two options to determine if the markup is worth it to you. For me, it was not. I saved a boatload by buying third party RAM.
Radeon Pro Vega II Duo MPX Module
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If you want to run the Vega II DUO (which is really two GPUs on the same MPX module) then those run for 5,600$ ... each. You can get two of these. Or you could alternatively go with whatever top end rendering AMD card Apple supports in the future. Either way, the price will be about the same for the same number of GPUs.
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Since you are limited to Apple's proprietary SSD kit, you need to upgrade from them. The price on these items will not depreciate much if at all from Apple, based on the price of the 2013 Mac Pro leading up to the 2019 Mac Pro. That kit will run you 2,800$ to upgrade to.
So going from the base model to the mega max upgraded model would cost you about 30,800$ before labor. This is before you consider that you void the warranty on such an expensive machine by replacing the CPU yourself specifically.
Alternatively, you could shell out for the top end CPU in your first build, at the cost of 7,000$ USD (as opposed to the 4,500$ aftermarket part with questionable compatibility). This keeps your warranty intact, and your system still fully upgradable.
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I'm also curious what you're doing that needs massive parallel GPU power, and massive parallel CPU power at the same time, while using 1.5 TB of RAM. Even the most demanding server workloads today don't use all three simultaneously, so anyone who looks at the 50,000$ Mac Pro as an absurdity confuses me since that machine's work case doesn't exist to my knowledge. You generally only need to max out one "area" of your system that is bottlenecking your workflow, as opposed to cranking all of it.
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Thank you for running the math. Still coming out ahead by some $20,000(!) doing it yourself... and that's at today's prices. Upgrades are often not necessary for some time.
What I'm doing with it today is less important than what I might need to do with it tomorrow. Thus, asking what the minimum config I can get today that can be upgraded to the max later.
Great, thorough post to help him choose what he needs. I love people like you who take the time to help people who in this case did not know the minimum Mac Pro configuration that can be upgraded to the maximum. I am sure very informative for him and many other people! Once again, great post!
If I were you @Jethro! I would take @s66 and my opinion and wait to see what the Apple Silicon Mac Pro achieves as far as just pure computing power. I am sure it will blow away the Intel-based Mac Pro, so why spend all this money on a machine that will be somewhat outdated when the Apple Silicon Mac Pro comes out? If you can wait, wait and at least see what the Apple Silicon Mac Pro can achieve.
I feel like the best bet is upgrading the CPU through Apple, then going it alone for the rest.
Everything else can be upgraded super easily.
I’m keen to see how well the new RX 6000 series cards work in the MP! Could be a nice upgrade from my W5700X.
Everything else can be upgraded super easily.
I’m keen to see how well the new RX 6000 series cards work in the MP! Could be a nice upgrade from my W5700X.
Because for many this will have made back the money many times over before the AS Mac Pro comes out.
I get that, and that is why I said in that post "if you can wait, wait."
I understand not everyone can wait, or some people do not want Apple Silicon Macs. Some people like to stick with what they know, which is Intel. Eventually (and obviously) all of us will be on AS Macs.
With Apple's CPU development, I truly believe as I said before if you can wait, wait because I think most of us are expecting the Apple Silicon that goes into the Mac Pro to be an absolute beast of a CPU!